Corrupt!? Mafia (ENDGAME)

[MacDougall]

twas an unnecessary push. it was important-- we noticed it

also lol jack

You are probably right.

[MacDougall]

@Sloonei I would like you to summon as much energy as you can please. I know you're on the road but hit us like a freight train. You are a confirmed town voice. Play a 1 dat stump please.

[MacDougall]

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
G-Man
Funnygurl555
Hyena

Johann

boo
DrWilgy

Jackofhearts2005

This is my reads list. I know it echoes many others. I think we are on the right track. I understand I'm probably in most of your POEs. I admit I didn't show up d2 which was hypocritical of me after complaining about d1. I was pretty disappointed in myself and needed to take the time quite honestly. I didn't want to be a toxic jerk.

I think Jack is scum. He's the least town player in the game. Hasn't done anything impactful aside from summon almighty ATE to move my gun from his head. I'd like that to be the shot.

Boo has been solid town read for me all game but he is in the POE all the same. I'd prefer Wilgy shot over him.

I am confident that everyone else I've named is town. Even Hyena. I think Hyena and myself are the only valid bad shots here so I fully expect to see arguments towards us. Hyena is exceptionally townie by content and his reads echo mine. He hasn't built his reads in a way to give himself outs.

[Johann]

Dougall if you think Hyena is town bcs he shares same scum views as you ( and mind you so do i ) why is he town and i am not? In fact i think i am superior to hyena in every aspect

Hyena said drago is scum BUT NEVER PUSHED for Dragos death. I pushed for Drago death entire D2 but hyena never did so except saying ye i think drago is scum and he needs to die when asked by nanook

Hyena has been smoke with no fire so far and i just cant see him as town

If you will say i bussed Drago why not say same shit to Hyena then?

I just find it beyond funny how Hyena who never had anything of substance and didnt even push for Dragos death is somehow a more townie than me who pushed on Drago sincr d2 started and called for his death on every occasion.

If you will hold me as null then hold Hyena for the same shit if not less. It is not consistent at all

[Johann]

What I’d like to get from everyone is two people you would shoot and two people you would not. Doesn’t have to be ranked 1/2, I don’t care. Just give me two names on either end.

I would NOT shoot G-Man or Funny.
I WOULD shoot Dragomir or Boo.

I'm just re-reading and noticed this. Based on my reading right now it is perfect. Hyena has massive town cred for me for those two names he's listed as town. Would never shoot him, FG or G-man as it stands. The POE narrows.

This right here is beyond bad. Like i cant see how can anyone here read this post and go - yea i think this is good

[Johann]

Not only you youself arent confirmed townie you took his words 100% honest and locked him as town bcs he sings the song you wanna hear.

I listed Gman and Slooney as two i would never shoot and you never once commented on it but somehow Hyennas words are enough to give him massive town read when his list is 50% as mine and i was right about slooney???

Like what?

And you said me pushing for Dragomir kill doesnt clear me but you NEVER said anything about it to Hyena who clearly has Drago in his shoot list and Boo - that considers Jack - person you suspect - to be scum -.

I think your read of Hyenna is absolutely bad and full of holes.

[Johann]

In fact your read of Hyena makes you look more as a scum than Hyena himself

[Johann]

And once i get on PC and ISO D1 gun snipe i am sure i will find more shit to dig out.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Not only you youself arent confirmed townie you took his words 100% honest and locked him as town bcs he sings the song you wanna hear.

I listed Gman and Slooney as two i would never shoot and you never once commented on it but somehow Hyennas words are enough to give him massive town read when his list is 50% as mine and i was right about slooney???

Like what?

And you said me pushing for Dragomir kill doesnt clear me but you NEVER said anything about it to Hyena who clearly has Drago in his shoot list and Boo - that considers Jack - person you suspect - to be scum -.

I think your read of Hyenna is absolutely bad and full of holes.

You don’t get credit for sloonei when I had to fight you to include him

[Jackofhearts2005]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

Do you think I am scum Jack?

Not particularly.

[Johann]

Not only you youself arent confirmed townie you took his words 100% honest and locked him as town bcs he sings the song you wanna hear.

I listed Gman and Slooney as two i would never shoot and you never once commented on it but somehow Hyennas words are enough to give him massive town read when his list is 50% as mine and i was right about slooney???

Like what?

And you said me pushing for Dragomir kill doesnt clear me but you NEVER said anything about it to Hyena who clearly has Drago in his shoot list and Boo - that considers Jack - person you suspect - to be scum -.

I think your read of Hyenna is absolutely bad and full of holes.

You don’t get credit for sloonei when I had to fight you to include him

And yet out of everyone i was right about the person i said

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm bored with the convo about Johann self-shooting. I'm so bored with it, I refuse to reread it and make reads from it.

Hyena is town. Lock it and throw the key away.

Spewed town imo.

“My teammate is locktown” - Jack about Mac in Inception

Convince me this is tmi. I’d be certain it was if say, you died and flipped wolf. But what about Drago?

(I’m just going to be contrary all game, mkay?)

Too early. Pocket attempt imo.

Actually yeah, I bet. It was a pregame post.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Not only you youself arent confirmed townie you took his words 100% honest and locked him as town bcs he sings the song you wanna hear.

I listed Gman and Slooney as two i would never shoot and you never once commented on it but somehow Hyennas words are enough to give him massive town read when his list is 50% as mine and i was right about slooney???

Like what?

And you said me pushing for Dragomir kill doesnt clear me but you NEVER said anything about it to Hyena who clearly has Drago in his shoot list and Boo - that considers Jack - person you suspect - to be scum -.

I think your read of Hyenna is absolutely bad and full of holes.

You don’t get credit for sloonei when I had to fight you to include him

And yet out of everyone i was right about the person i said

I had to force it out of you and you didn’t even have him as a TR IIRC, just a null read. So. Yeah, not really giving credit for that

[MacDougall]

Dougall if you think Hyena is town bcs he shares same scum views as you ( and mind you so do i ) why is he town and i am not? In fact i think i am superior to hyena in every aspect

Hyena said drago is scum BUT NEVER PUSHED for Dragos death. I pushed for Drago death entire D2 but hyena never did so except saying ye i think drago is scum and he needs to die when asked by nanook

Hyena has been smoke with no fire so far and i just cant see him as town

If you will say i bussed Drago why not say same shit to Hyena then?

I just find it beyond funny how Hyena who never had anything of substance and didnt even push for Dragos death is somehow a more townie than me who pushed on Drago sincr d2 started and called for his death on every occasion.

If you will hold me as null then hold Hyena for the same shit if not less. It is not consistent at all

I don't need to talk to your defence because nobody is seriously thinking about shooting you. A lot of people have Hyena as a scum read and I think shooting him is a mistake.

I'm not just town reading Hyena for this reason you state either. Hyena has given me a lot of townie pings in my reads. I don't feel the need to spam the thread every time someone makes a town sounding post either.

Also you're massively overreacting. I'm not even suggesting you be shot.

Ultimately why I have him higher than you is because if you take the fact that you both supported shooting Dragomir away, he looks more town than you in my opinion. And supporting shooting Dragomir is only a mild town look for anyone who did frankly.

Given you aren't even voting, lynching and ultimately someone else fired the shot people are putting too much emphasis on what amounts to standard distancing. In this build you'd be nuts not to be demanding shooters fire at your teammates in case they actually do. It's just not worth that much cred.

You going histrionic over me not giving you enough cred is the best town indicator you have, and you only just did that so... good for you.

[MacDougall]

Johann don't get so amped up over being mildly sussed guy. It's par for the course and stops you viewing the game with nuance.

[MacDougall]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

Do you think I am scum Jack?

Not particularly.

But in the post I quoted you said you were with Nanook on me and Wilgy? Why the change of heart?

[MacDougall]

Anyway Johann is town. Next.

[MacDougall]

Wilgy is pretty likely to be scum going by his iso. Never made a comment about Dragomir and he made some points that seem kinda bs to me.

[MacDougall]

I kinda want to shoot Jack. Does anyone object?

I have no reason to single Jack out as a suspect. He wasn't here when I was here last night. But at least if he gets shot he can preserve his unlynchable claim some more.

I don't like that Jack is acting low key. He's also skating. He also won't get lynched if he's scum. I think he's a good shot. Maybe not the most likely to flip wolf but he's the most likely to flip wolf in a way that destroys the scum team if he is one.

Also I do think he is one. I don't believe half the shit he says. He's just applied an urgent scattery tone to the few posts he's made that makes it look authentic. He cleared Johann off being wrongtown and I never understand people that do that. Johann/Jack feel teamy to me.

I agree with the feel of Jack, but I wouldn't think them to be w/w.

That's two of the people you had previously confirmed. Was there anything other than the above that changed that?

You've got a developed enough read on Jack/Johann interactions to not consider them w/w? Tell me why.

I wouldn't say it's developed but i'm seeing them as 'like with like'. They are too similar in my head to be on the same team.

I kind of feel like I caught him reaching with the Johann/Jack commentary. His explanation rings false to me.

[MacDougall]

He's been going after Hyena and Johann most of the game ftr.

That's another point in Hyena's favour imo. I don't think any of the POE really make sense as his teammate. He's hard to worldbuild with. Wilgy on the other hand.

Wilgy/Jack feels solid to me.

[MacDougall]

And once i get on PC and ISO D1 gun snipe i am sure i will find more shit to dig out.

If you read my ISO and come up with a scum read it'll be the biggest pile of bullshit ever. I'll struggle immensely to do anything but troll you if you bother.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

Do you think I am scum Jack?

Not particularly.

But in the post I quoted you said you were with Nanook on me and Wilgy? Why the change of heart?

I agreed with Nanook that you and Wilgy were not good shots yesterday.

I’m okay with both of you being in the poe now, especially if we’re clearing FG (haven’t gotten to why yet) cause that’s how POEs work.

Atm if it was up to me, we shoot Boo but we’ll see.

[MacDougall]

Can you quote the post where Nanook said me and Wilgy were bad shots?

[MacDougall]

I think we probably need to shoot Wilgy tonight. It's our beat chance to do it. Don't really want him going deep as a low poster. He'll never feel like the right shot.

[MacDougall]

I kinda want to shoot Jack. Does anyone object?

I have no reason to single Jack out as a suspect. He wasn't here when I was here last night. But at least if he gets shot he can preserve his unlynchable claim some more.

I don't like that Jack is acting low key. He's also skating. He also won't get lynched if he's scum. I think he's a good shot. Maybe not the most likely to flip wolf but he's the most likely to flip wolf in a way that destroys the scum team if he is one.

Also I do think he is one. I don't believe half the shit he says. He's just applied an urgent scattery tone to the few posts he's made that makes it look authentic. He cleared Johann off being wrongtown and I never understand people that do that. Johann/Jack feel teamy to me.

I agree with the feel of Jack, but I wouldn't think them to be w/w.

That's two of the people you had previously confirmed. Was there anything other than the above that changed that?

You've got a developed enough read on Jack/Johann interactions to not consider them w/w? Tell me why.

I wouldn't say it's developed but i'm seeing them as 'like with like'. They are too similar in my head to be on the same team.

Lol what?

I'm disappointed you let this slide Jack.

[MacDougall]

I'm kinda back on Jack town bandwagon now.

So basically shoot Wilgy and figure out who is playing the top shelf game.

[Johann]

Dougall if you think Hyena is town bcs he shares same scum views as you ( and mind you so do i ) why is he town and i am not? In fact i think i am superior to hyena in every aspect

Hyena said drago is scum BUT NEVER PUSHED for Dragos death. I pushed for Drago death entire D2 but hyena never did so except saying ye i think drago is scum and he needs to die when asked by nanook

Hyena has been smoke with no fire so far and i just cant see him as town

If you will say i bussed Drago why not say same shit to Hyena then?

I just find it beyond funny how Hyena who never had anything of substance and didnt even push for Dragos death is somehow a more townie than me who pushed on Drago sincr d2 started and called for his death on every occasion.

If you will hold me as null then hold Hyena for the same shit if not less. It is not consistent at all

I don't need to talk to your defence because nobody is seriously thinking about shooting you. A lot of people have Hyena as a scum read and I think shooting him is a mistake.

I'm not just town reading Hyena for this reason you state either. Hyena has given me a lot of townie pings in my reads. I don't feel the need to spam the thread every time someone makes a town sounding post either.

Also you're massively overreacting. I'm not even suggesting you be shot.

Ultimately why I have him higher than you is because if you take the fact that you both supported shooting Dragomir away, he looks more town than you in my opinion. And supporting shooting Dragomir is only a mild town look for anyone who did frankly.

Given you aren't even voting, lynching and ultimately someone else fired the shot people are putting too much emphasis on what amounts to standard distancing. In this build you'd be nuts not to be demanding shooters fire at your teammates in case they actually do. It's just not worth that much cred.

You going histrionic over me not giving you enough cred is the best town indicator you have, and you only just did that so... good for you.

I am in now way shape or form concerned i will be shot and this isn't be defending myself

It is actually me making a case on you

[Hyena]

I have a feeling mafia is one of people trying to discredit me as scum after last night. I def sense a mafia in there. Even if i am not 100% confirmed i reckon mafia wants to downplay me to prevent further pushes.

Amongst people sussing
Hyena - Dougall - Nanook

Umm --

Town pile: {Hyena, Sloonei, Funny, Nanook, Johann}

Just need to find one more, and we can PoE the rest.

-- I'm not sussing you right now? Have you stopped reading my posts, too? :P

[Hyena]

I think Jack is scum. He's the least town player in the game. Hasn't done anything impactful aside from summon almighty ATE to move my gun from his head. I'd like that to be the shot.

Boo has been solid town read for me all game but he is in the POE all the same. I'd prefer Wilgy shot over him.

I am confident that everyone else I've named is town. Even Hyena. I think Hyena and myself are the only valid bad shots here so I fully expect to see arguments towards us. Hyena is exceptionally townie by content and his reads echo mine. He hasn't built his reads in a way to give himself outs.

Ehhh... I think I would've agreed with you on Jack, like, D1 and early D2, but I think he's improved. I think I'd always go with a Boo shot first to see if he flips scum. With that said, I feel like resolving those two is my biggest priority right now. If we do manage to find a mafia between them on our next shot, I would then probably shoot Wilgy, then you on the next day if Wilgy flips town. That's how I think I'd handle this. Granted, that requires us finding mafia between Jack and Boo.

[Hyena]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

[Johann]

Dougal first thing is that you put too much emphasis on that i want to be cleared because i pushed for Dragomir when in fact i said myself i wouldn't clear myself because of it. Second you think i am threatened to be shot or smth which isn't the case. I know i won't be shot by anyone. And i am far from upset/hysteric/overacting

And now whole Hyena stuff - I called Hyena out for having smoke posts and he himself said it is true and if it was his way he would say the same thing. Yet you say you consider his posts to be townie when the man himself said they aren't that good. His posts on what you consider good are basically same stuff i wrote with difference being i followed up on my words to the end.

I don't need your approval or anything, nor do i need your credit nor did i ask for it. I am saying your train of thinking has loopholes and inconsistencies. If you are holding one player for a certain standard then hold everyone.

It is very visible from what i wrote to you that i aim at your inconsistencies and not that i wanna defend myself.
______________

I don't have much but i smell some shit on the other side of your fence. I still wanna go for Boo or hyena first. But eventually i will come for you too

[Johann]

I have a feeling mafia is one of people trying to discredit me as scum after last night. I def sense a mafia in there. Even if i am not 100% confirmed i reckon mafia wants to downplay me to prevent further pushes.

Amongst people sussing
Hyena - Dougall - Nanook

Umm --

Town pile: {Hyena, Sloonei, Funny, Nanook, Johann}

Just need to find one more, and we can PoE the rest.

-- I'm not sussing you right now? Have you stopped reading my posts, too? :P

Nah i read em and at first you were sus and then changed your opinion. Could be a wolf backing and trying to get into good graces

[Johann]

And i wanna swing it back to Slooney. Is he/she a regular here?

[Hyena]

I still wanna go for Boo or hyena first. But eventually i will come for you too

So, you think there's no more than one scum between me and Boo? Also, what do you think about Jack?

[Jackofhearts2005]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

[Jackofhearts2005]

And i wanna swing it back to Slooney. Is he/she a regular here?

He is and he has a rep as a very good player.

Sloonei’s saying he thinks he was poisoned for his rep, not his reads.

[Hyena]

Johann, I'm willing to make a compromise with you.

Right now, my PoE is {Boo, Jack, Mac, Wilgy}

I will let you put me in the PoE and even allow you to put a bullet in me if, AND ONLY IF, you can show me that one of the other four in my PoE is most likely town.

Does that sound fair?

[Hyena]

Johann, I'm willing to make a compromise with you.

Right now, my PoE is {Boo, Jack, Mac, Wilgy}

I will let you put me in the PoE and even allow you to put a bullet in me if, AND ONLY IF, you can show me that one of the other four in my PoE is most likely town.

Does that sound fair?

And the reason I'm suggesting this is because if you can make me feel confident that one of those four people are for sure town, then I don't have to care whether I live or not because we'd still have autowin with my death.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think I look worst here but that's because Dragomir did work to pocket me. I think there's a good chance the Johann case was just distancing. Dragomir didn't respond to it like a scum responds to a townie casing them.

Bit sus on his interactions with Boo and FG too. I'd focus on those three.

Disagree. Johann’s appeal to Drago’s meta looks good to me. He was lock town from the getgo for me but if he wasn’t, I’d have him high all the sane for the Drago push.

[Johann]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

Why would wolfs shoot you? You are a waste of shot if you are town. You are suspected as it is by a lot of people. Why would mafia kill someone they can frame

[Johann]

And i wanna swing it back to Slooney. Is he/she a regular here?

He is and he has a rep as a very good player.

Sloonei’s saying he thinks he was poisoned for his rep, not his reads.

So in a nutshell he was poisoned by a core member of this site?

[Johann]

Johann, I'm willing to make a compromise with you.

Right now, my PoE is {Boo, Jack, Mac, Wilgy}

I will let you put me in the PoE and even allow you to put a bullet in me if, AND ONLY IF, you can show me that one of the other four in my PoE is most likely town.

Does that sound fair?

Here is what i want from you.
Why Boo instead of you

[Hyena]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

Why would wolfs shoot you? You are a waste of shot if you are town. You are suspected as it is by a lot of people. Why would mafia kill someone they can frame

-- Why would mafia frame someone if they don't intend to have them shot by either themselves if they get the gun or by town?

[Hyena]

Johann, I'm willing to make a compromise with you.

Right now, my PoE is {Boo, Jack, Mac, Wilgy}

I will let you put me in the PoE and even allow you to put a bullet in me if, AND ONLY IF, you can show me that one of the other four in my PoE is most likely town.

Does that sound fair?

Here is what i want from you.
Why Boo instead of you

Because Boo pretty much used the same argument that I was using to push Nutella, yet apparently, he never townread me for pushing Nutella. It's kinda like how Dragomir initially voted for me to get the gun because I promised to shoot Nutella throughout D1.

[Hyena]

Johann, I'm willing to make a compromise with you.

Right now, my PoE is {Boo, Jack, Mac, Wilgy}

I will let you put me in the PoE and even allow you to put a bullet in me if, AND ONLY IF, you can show me that one of the other four in my PoE is most likely town.

Does that sound fair?

Here is what i want from you.
Why Boo instead of you

Because Boo pretty much used the same argument that I was using to push Nutella, yet apparently, he never townread me for pushing Nutella. It's kinda like how Dragomir initially voted for me to get the gun because I promised to shoot Nutella throughout D1.

They both were pushing Nutella, and were trying to use me, by various means, to get her killed.

[G-Man]

Quality result. Nanook moves to my highest town read, because there’s no reason for a baddie to shoot a teammate on Night 2. Making it harder for your team when you don’t have to in order to gain cred for yourself ventures into ‘cute’ territory. There were a few other names that could be have been justified for the shot. Nanook seems to have already had enough cred to not slip to a scum read for a mis-shot. Unless he’s playing 4-D chess with us, he’s civ.

I feel like I need a little help interpreting the new-to-me folk. I liked Hyena Day 1 but he looked nervous Night 2 after Nanook named him in his shot list. Is that normal Hyena behavior one way or the other?

Funnygurl and Johann elude me but I have to form opinions on them so we can run poe. Funnygurl seems to be civ read by a number of folks. Is it tone? Is it interactions? Is it who she has sussed?

Reading Johann has been a tennis match for my brain. He never moves more than one step above or below neutral without saying something that negates that step. What in Johann’s playstyle can I look to to break this rut?

[Johann]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

Why would wolfs shoot you? You are a waste of shot if you are town. You are suspected as it is by a lot of people. Why would mafia kill someone they can frame

-- Why would mafia frame someone if they don't intend to have them shot by either themselves if they get the gun or by town?

Simple

To waste time and energy

[Johann]

Johann, I'm willing to make a compromise with you.

Right now, my PoE is {Boo, Jack, Mac, Wilgy}

I will let you put me in the PoE and even allow you to put a bullet in me if, AND ONLY IF, you can show me that one of the other four in my PoE is most likely town.

Does that sound fair?

Here is what i want from you.
Why Boo instead of you

Because Boo pretty much used the same argument that I was using to push Nutella, yet apparently, he never townread me for pushing Nutella. It's kinda like how Dragomir initially voted for me to get the gun because I promised to shoot Nutella throughout D1.

They both were pushing Nutella, and were trying to use me, by various means, to get her killed.

I can buy that.

[Johann]

Dougall dont bother to read me, you cant. Just ask Michelle

[Hyena]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

Why would wolfs shoot you? You are a waste of shot if you are town. You are suspected as it is by a lot of people. Why would mafia kill someone they can frame

-- Why would mafia frame someone if they don't intend to have them shot by either themselves if they get the gun or by town?

Simple

To waste time and energy

Hmm. Fair point.