Corrupt!? Mafia (ENDGAME)

[Johann]

Spoiler: show

I can see Mac as scum more than Jack
Sell me that pitch by your words and not nanooks

I'm not really invested in you voting with me. Whichever one of them hatched this scheme doesn't expect you to be on my side of this, and even then, I still see being able to get the numbers to burn them on what they did here. So if you're more open-minded then they thought, it's still easier for me to show you that it's worth risking trusting me through my interactions with other people, not directly with you. You don't trust me. Fair enough. I've given you reason not to. So you're to tunneled on me to not be able to find a way to doubt anything I can tell you. If you have more specific questions I can try and help you get there that way, but I'm not going to be able to sell you on trusting me in the way you're asking here.

Listen here.

Those 2 have no influence on me what so ever, no one in this game does. I don't know any of you besides Dragomir. You maybe are my prime shot but i am not an idiot that will close them self in the shell and donkey it.

I am asking you a simple question. As someone who sees part of dougal that's scummy - why do YOU wanna kill him

The same reason anyone wants to kill anyone in mafia (well. usually, at least), I believe it's part of my win condition. I can see what Mac is trying to do here, but I think he misplayed, is mafia, and does not have the numbers to make his plan work. It could be close, but it's increasingly looking like it won't be. He's even lost you. Maybe not fully, but enough.

Ok
Listen here

Can you stop playing the victim for a second and answer in a simple manner - WHY DO YOU THINK DOUGALL IS SCUM.
I don't wanna hear stuff like " i can see what mac is trying to do here"
Like you have to have a reason , a reason you can put in words why is he scum. If you do put it in words or by god i will put a bullet in you

There is nothing in here that strikes me as "playing the victim." I think boo is explaining why he suspects Mac, in his own way (i've noted that boo's reads aren't always clearly stated, but I don't necessarily suspect him for that). When he says he "can see what Mac is doing", he means that as in he believes that he can see Mac manipulating the thread toward a certain end: that is why boo suspects mac. "Playing the victim" would imply that boo's attitude projects an air of persecution here, as though he feels you are unfairly questioning him, but I don't get that sense at all. I see him answering your questions in the way he's comfortable doing. This aligns with his general attitude throughout the game. His approach is unorthodox, but it's clearly stated.

I'll give him one thing and thats he seems honest in his defense. But utterly confusing to work with

[Johann]

It is 02:33 am here and i pretty much made my choice so ill go to bed

[Johann]

Ill read everything once more when i wake up in case something pops up

[MacDougall]

also idfk what's wrong with flip flopping. at least i'm out here acknowledging that i've been wrong. consistent reads are for twg gods or ppl who are too bullheaded and end up wrong, or wolves

I'm all about the flip flop life FG. Flip flop til ya don't stop I say.

[MacDougall]

like for example i was wrong about hyena and then i did that iso and was like "HAHA WELP" but wouldn't it be hella annoying if i were still on that train?

exactly

please don't shoot mac

FG sure can read a Mac that's for dang sure.

[Hyena]

also idfk what's wrong with flip flopping. at least i'm out here acknowledging that i've been wrong. consistent reads are for twg gods or ppl who are too bullheaded and end up wrong, or wolves

I'm all about the flip flop life FG. Flip flop til ya don't stop I say.

[MacDougall]

I'll rather say wilgy is townie and mafia going for him would ve too obvious

Okay, so if Wilgy is town, then I feel like the worlds are 1. exactly Jack and Mac, or 2. Boo + someone outside of Jack and Mac.

Jack and Mac is honestly one of the lowest IQ takes I've ever seen in a Mafia game. It's one of those low IQ takes that is so low IQ that it convinces the low IQ exponent that it makes them high IQ.

[Johann]

also idfk what's wrong with flip flopping. at least i'm out here acknowledging that i've been wrong. consistent reads are for twg gods or ppl who are too bullheaded and end up wrong, or wolves

I'm all about the flip flop life FG. Flip flop til ya don't stop I say.

All praise lord poliwhirl

[MacDougall]

also idfk what's wrong with flip flopping. at least i'm out here acknowledging that i've been wrong. consistent reads are for twg gods or ppl who are too bullheaded and end up wrong, or wolves

I'm all about the flip flop life FG. Flip flop til ya don't stop I say.

[MacDougall]

boo ISO

Spoiler: show

Anyway Mac is scum discuss.

Yea, but you're bussing.

I've talked quite a lot about nutella in this game, and the way Day 1 unfolded. I was more vocally supportive of her than I ordinarily would be of anyone on Day 1 because A) I didn't have many reads at the time, but "nutella is town" was the strongest of the bunch and B) the widespread suspicion I saw against her seemed entirely misguided. People were hurling accusations at her for doing all of the things that make Civilian Nutella a great player. It was goofy.
As we've already seen Drago was a prominent member of the anti-nutella campaign, I've become even more wary of it in hindsight. But I also need to check that a little: It is unlikely that the mafia team alone would have launched a full assault on nutella like that. They would need to lean on some civilian support. boo was also a card-carrying member of the anti-nutella committee. I'm not sure how that reflects back on him just yet. But it originates with this post, which... has no substance whatsoever.

Spoiler: show

I have gamesolve anyway.

boo - scum
Dragomir - town
DrWilgy - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
Duskfall - town
Funnygurl555 - scum
G-Man - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
Hyena - town
Jackofhearts2005 - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
Johann - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - town
nutella - town
Sloonei - town

Shooting order:

FG > Boo > G-Man > Wilgy > Jack > Johann

Game winning POE already.

You're not great at math, huh? "doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough" = "if a single one of my scum reads is wrong [and spoiler alert: at least one is], following this would 100% lose the game. If both are right [nope], but my towncore is wrong, following this would 100% lose the game".

Or you're bad and think everyone else is terrible at figuring out odds?

Anyway Mac is scum discuss.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine: shoot him, kthanks.

oh wait, you had a vote I thought nutella? [VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Places a vote on nutella and then quickly removes it. I don't know what's going on here. The premise of the initial vote is that boo wants mac shot. He backs off because nutella doesn't have any other votes? This is super early in the day. I don't understand what's going on in boo's head. This is the player who also criticized me for casting an "inconsequential" vote for wilgy for five minutes with an hour to go before the deadline. boo is an old school syndicat, and vote changes can be something of a devil for that crowd. I have as much first hand experience with that line of skepticism as anyone.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Hyena] aubergine

Can you back this up? I don't see prior allusion to your read of him in your iso.

He seems to want to shoot you. That sounds good to me rn.

boo's next series of posts continue to stay focused on nutella. Now he wants to give hyena the gun so nutella can get shot. Okay. I remain thoroughly unclear on why nutella is even a suspect at this stage.

Spoiler: show

I don't believe in townreading. It's nonsensical BS people make claims about and then think they're right on, because, *gasp*, yea, obviously you're statistically going to be right most of the time, there are more town. Kind of how the game works.

I wanted to vote for her at that point because I didn't especially like other places votes were going and thought she had one, but you'd already moved off her. Plus I thought she'd consider shooting Mac, which is something I would've been okay with (still am, but less relevant now).

She'd make my shortlist of people to shoot if I got the gun, currently, yes. So you wanting to shoot her specifically works for me. It doesn't affect my read on Mac, it's too early to be looking at connecting people as teammates.

"I don't believe in townreading" is the most bizarro sentence I could read in a mafia game, but it is again something that makes sense coming from an old school syndicat (once upon a time we required players to survive to the end of the game to qualify for a win. civilians played the game more like independents than civilians, and publicly identifying other civilians was seen as giving the mafia team a roadmap to effective kills, and that old attitude still lingers for some). I think that philosophy could also go a long way to explain some of boo's more eyebrow-raising behavior. I am not looking to make excuses for boo or let him off too easily, but it is certainly not impossible to read an honest mindset in his posts.
Civilians win the game by cooperating.

Spoiler: show

I got my PM and do not care when phases start/end.

Self-killing makes zero sense Johann.

We should give the gun to someone with a subset of players they're allowed to choose from to shoot.

If they go outside that, they got shot next.

I think it's better then deciding on a specific player because that keeps mafia from being able to control the conversation easily.

And at 13 players, 10/3 split... Assuming the gun always gets used (no ties, but in most cases that should be easy enough to avoid since we can hammer)... We can only afford like 4 gun uses on a civ? One or two more if we get 1 or 2 of the mafia mixed in with that? Right? It's too early for me to be mathing. But it's a general point.

Then once we have a baddie killed, players who had them in their subset but chose not to shoot them can be looked at more in depth. Plus that's a way to try and force the mafia into bussing if they do get the gun.

this is boo's first post and it's basically stating the obvious about how the game works. imo it's fluff

COMPROMISE is what makes this country GREAT, except when it’s MY IDEALS, in which case we must be UNCOMPROMISING in the face of ADVERSITY

something something towncore, something something if I get the gun I'll shoot you, something something casual mention of someone who hasn't even posted but I am saying is either 100% town or mafia. Actually, no. Strike that. They're the secret independent role that isn't stated in the roles. Probably? But I don't know, because reading host posts is apparently for nerds, so I haven't done that.

this is... what the actual fuck is this. this is a scum post 99% of the time it exists.

Wait, is this all you got against him?

Yes, because she's mafia and I'm an easy mis-shot, and she knows it and is going balls to the wall trying to make it happen because if she doesn't I'll be gunning for her until she gets shot and she knows it.

Again, this is not an unbelievable post for a civilian boo to make. I am unsure how much I want to read into Drago's stepping in on this matter; it reads more like an effort to discredit nutella than a defense of boo. boo is a consequential bystander. But my gut right now tells me this whole exchange is too over-the-top to be double-you/double-you. I've looked at this three times now and the needle is pointing toward a civilian boo.

Spoiler: show

Cause nutella is town so stop pushing that please

Unless she is scum that would be sad but I hope she is town

There are 3 people who want this dude to have the gun?

... however, I continue to not know why any of boo's reads exist. The nutella suspicion seems to be the catalyst for everything else(?). He opposed giving duskfall the gun specifically because he calls nutella town. I assume that I am also on boo's shortlist because I was on nutella's side as well. But it's unclear where the nutella suspicion originated. If that read is the bedrock of boo's game, then it's shaky and elusive.

Spoiler: show

So you think nutella specifically doesn’t want the gun D1 as scum.

Why?

She would want it as town, and make a pretty noticeable effort to form a base that townreads her and will vote for her. That lack of any effort at forming a base (and her explanation for it: Hyena and I suspecting her) is suspicious to me. Anyone town should be on a strong offensive, and that's what her offensive in this format is what I think we'd see. It isn't what I'm seeing from her, I'm seeing some posturing offense and way to much of a defensive mindset. It doesn't fit.

He eventually explains why he suspects nutella so firmly, but this doesn't really satisfy me. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't believe him, and I think I slapped a town read on him shortly after this post(?). My impression of this suspicion at the time was that boo was projecting a certain idea onto nutella, trying to make the piece fit into the hole. It didn't, but he was determined. I felt like there was sincerity in the effort.

Spoiler: show

Funnygurl555 No, I don't think nutella is town. but I don't think you're town either. I wouldn't go so far as to partner you, way too early for that. but one of you is mafia. I'd probably shoot you over her, or at least argue for your inclusion in the short list over hers.

I like posts like this. boo is careful not to have his suspicions misconstrued or conflated into anything they're not. I think it reflects a level of focus that is more likely to be prevalent in a civilian: "This is how I feel, and I want to make sure there are no mistakes about it."

Spoiler: show

Boo what is your dragomir read btw I can't remember?

I dunno if I've mentioned him, so that might be why.

He isn't someone who ever sticks out to me long enough to consider. I know I've played a game where he got lynched D1 or 2 as mafia, and even then I had no idea why it went down with so much support. That hasn't really been different here. I've seen him tossed about, and I've opened his ISO, but it's just a blank wall for me. There's just more interesting people to look at.

Today I'll be tunneling Jack. Being wrong about nutella made me lose a lot of interest in this game, but now that I have that it's what I want to deal with.

I mentioned this post in the interactive ISO. It's probably my least favorite moment in the game for boo. To reiterate, he's said nothing about drago all game. When he's directly asked to provide a read, he stammers for a bit and ultimately says nothing.

Spoiler: show

What i find interesting is that i am scum to hyena and boo but neither made a case why

I'm not interested in advocating your getting shot yet. Jack would need to go first. The result of that would tie in to you.

Why not shoot me first tho?
If jack flip should give you info about me shouldnt my death also provide info for jack?

I just dont buy it. It sounds bad and it is bad.

You called me scum but never bothered to explain why
You called my theory about dusk dumb but never bothered to explain why

To me you are just smoke but no fire. Your accusations have no substance and thus you yourself have no substance. And i am perfectly okay if you get shot

No, he connects to you in certain demonstrable ways he has shown. It doesn't flip in the other direction.

I didn't call it dumb, I called it wrong.

To me, it doesn't matter what I am to you. You aren't going to get the gun today, so I don't need to preventing you from wanting to shoot me, and I don't want you shot yet, so it doesn't serve the order of my suspicions to go after you with every reason I have for it.

You're stuck in the mindset of there being lynches. View it all outside of that, and then let that make you play differently, and maybe it will make some sense to you.

But then posts like this keep me from scum-reading boo too hard. He is philosophically apart from everyone else in this game, but he is able to articulate his thoughts so clearly that I can't help but believe they are coming from an honest place. Everyone's questioning him all the time, but I never find myself raising my eyebrows once he's addressed the initial concerns.

Spoiler: show

Boo, did you turn on me because I lowered you to null and raised Jack up to null with you? :P Also, did you think the argument that I originally made about Nutella (that you pushed alongside me), where I said that scum might not want the gun and might not want to be responsible for shooting town, was towny?

Turning on you would imply we were ever on a team. I found you suspicious at points during d1, but not enough to not push you above other people. N1 that changed some, d2 that changed a lot. The weakest part of my town game is not adjusting reads enough as I go (or being so aware of that I go all over the place because I trust none of my reads). I'm fairly satisfied with how I handled my Nutella suspicion this game. I was wrong, but such is life. I think I'm approaching you right. I failed at my approach to Jack in a few ways. Regrouping on that front and if Nanook doesn't decide to shoot him I'll look at it again d3.

Doing Towny things doesn't inherently make someone town.

Here's a lot of words that don't explain why Hyena is a suspect. This is another slight issue I have when I try to clear boo for myself: I understand him when he explain his philosophy, but I don't see the same clarity when he expresses his reads.

Nothing else really stands out to me from Day 3. Johann suggests that there is something bad in his exchange with boo during this phase, but I'm not sure I see it. @Johann care to talk some more about that? I would lean toward a town read on boo, but that's not set in stone.

I knew that I was one of the most suspect players in the game, but I didn't realise I'd become so empirically the scummiest that even Boo who is lockwolf is more town looking than me.

Jeez all because Jack talked me out of shooting him and I snap shot nutella cuz others asked me to. *sigh*

[Funnygurl555]

also idfk what's wrong with flip flopping. at least i'm out here acknowledging that i've been wrong. consistent reads are for twg gods or ppl who are too bullheaded and end up wrong, or wolves

I'm all about the flip flop life FG. Flip flop til ya don't stop I say.

flip flop make it pop dj blow my speakers up
tonight ima fight until all of the wolves die

[Sloonei]

I looked at Mac's recent posts to see where the smoking gun that points to boo is. I didn't find it. boo just kind of abruptly became the top suspect today.

I also still don't feel like mac has even come close to addressing my early concern about him:

Spoiler: show

I also have genuine concerns about Mac's progression on nutella:

Spoiler: show

It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

Sloonei nutella isn't getting the gun because we're in a game with a lot of non regs and most of them don't trust and are triggered by her usual behaviours, just shouting about it isn't going to help. You had a chance to give me the gun because I had FG, Hyena, Dragomir etc. but frankly you blew it. Not me, you. You did this. And should be sad and ashamed of yourself.

He made all three of these posts to justify not letting her have the gun. She's too good of a player to have a read on this early, he insists. We can't trust her with the gun when it's entirely possible that he scum game is just a perfect reflection of her town game at this stage!

And that he decides to shoot that very same player on Night 1.

He repeatedly downplayed my calls for nutella to get the gun because she's too good of a player for anyone to have a clear sense of her alignment at that stage of the game. But then he goes ahead and shoots her anyway.

The nutella suspicion (in general) never made sense to me, and I'm beginning to think it was amplified by an opportunistic scum team.

[MacDougall]

I looked at Mac's recent posts to see where the smoking gun that points to boo is. I didn't find it. boo just kind of abruptly became the top suspect today.

I also still don't feel like mac has even come close to addressing my early concern about him:

Spoiler: show

I also have genuine concerns about Mac's progression on nutella:

Spoiler: show

It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

Sloonei nutella isn't getting the gun because we're in a game with a lot of non regs and most of them don't trust and are triggered by her usual behaviours, just shouting about it isn't going to help. You had a chance to give me the gun because I had FG, Hyena, Dragomir etc. but frankly you blew it. Not me, you. You did this. And should be sad and ashamed of yourself.

He made all three of these posts to justify not letting her have the gun. She's too good of a player to have a read on this early, he insists. We can't trust her with the gun when it's entirely possible that he scum game is just a perfect reflection of her town game at this stage!

And that he decides to shoot that very same player on Night 1.

He repeatedly downplayed my calls for nutella to get the gun because she's too good of a player for anyone to have a clear sense of her alignment at that stage of the game. But then he goes ahead and shoots her anyway.

The nutella suspicion (in general) never made sense to me, and I'm beginning to think it was amplified by an opportunistic scum team.

Yeah and what were the names of the players that were pushing me to shoot Nutella?

I didn't say Nutella wasn't getting the gun because she's too good of a player you lightweight. I said she wasn't getting the gun because the players in this game that aren't used to her were triggered by her usual behaviour and she wasn't trusted enough so going that way was a waste of time trying to go that way. Notwithstanding that several people seemed to want her dead.

Also I destroyed Boo to a degree few have ever been destroyed. You're being a tunneling lightweight. Get out of the tunnel lightweight.

[Sloonei]

nanook, johann, funnygurl, and hyena are my top town reads. G-man and wilgy are not priority suspects either. I lean town on boo but don't want to tell others not to suspect him. If neither of Jack or Mac are bad then I will be surprised.

[MacDougall]

Mac tinfoiling nutella in the early game is basically exactly on brand Sloonei. She resides in a similar place in my head to you.

[MacDougall]

nanook, johann, funnygurl, and hyena are my top town reads. G-man and wilgy are not priority suspects either. I lean town on boo but don't want to tell others not to suspect him. If neither of Jack or Mac are bad then I will be surprised.

WE HAVE THE SAME FUCKING READS

[Sloonei]

I looked at Mac's recent posts to see where the smoking gun that points to boo is. I didn't find it. boo just kind of abruptly became the top suspect today.

I also still don't feel like mac has even come close to addressing my early concern about him:

Spoiler: show

I also have genuine concerns about Mac's progression on nutella:

Spoiler: show

It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

Sloonei nutella isn't getting the gun because we're in a game with a lot of non regs and most of them don't trust and are triggered by her usual behaviours, just shouting about it isn't going to help. You had a chance to give me the gun because I had FG, Hyena, Dragomir etc. but frankly you blew it. Not me, you. You did this. And should be sad and ashamed of yourself.

He made all three of these posts to justify not letting her have the gun. She's too good of a player to have a read on this early, he insists. We can't trust her with the gun when it's entirely possible that he scum game is just a perfect reflection of her town game at this stage!

And that he decides to shoot that very same player on Night 1.

He repeatedly downplayed my calls for nutella to get the gun because she's too good of a player for anyone to have a clear sense of her alignment at that stage of the game. But then he goes ahead and shoots her anyway.

The nutella suspicion (in general) never made sense to me, and I'm beginning to think it was amplified by an opportunistic scum team.

Yeah and what were the names of the players that were pushing me to shoot Nutella?

I didn't say Nutella wasn't getting the gun because she's too good of a player you lightweight. I said she wasn't getting the gun because the players in this game that aren't used to her were triggered by her usual behaviour and she wasn't trusted enough so going that way was a waste of time trying to go that way. Notwithstanding that several people seemed to want her dead.

It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

Also I destroyed Boo to a degree few have ever been destroyed. You're being a tunneling lightweight. Get out of the tunnel lightweight.

[citation needed]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I <3 u sloondog


I feel considerably more sane now

[MacDougall]

I am suspected literally for the below reasons:

1. Jack talked me out of shooting him at the last minute with ATE.
2. Nutella provoked me a lot and I was tinfoiling the shit out of her and half the game wanted her shot so I changed my Jack shot to her instead without thinking on it much.
3. Dragomir (and probably the scum team more generally) didn't want Duskfall to have the gun and gave it to me instead and now I look guilty through Dragomir interactions.

I have no argument against the logic of the case frankly. I look bad. If I get shot so be it. But ONCE I DO if someone ANYONE doesn't re-read my posts through the lens of them being sincere I will be very upset.

[Hyena]

I'll rather say wilgy is townie and mafia going for him would ve too obvious

Okay, so if Wilgy is town, then I feel like the worlds are 1. exactly Jack and Mac, or 2. Boo + someone outside of Jack and Mac.

Jack and Mac is honestly one of the lowest IQ takes I've ever seen in a Mafia game. It's one of those low IQ takes that is so low IQ that it convinces the low IQ exponent that it makes them high IQ.

lol

[MacDougall]

I looked at Mac's recent posts to see where the smoking gun that points to boo is. I didn't find it. boo just kind of abruptly became the top suspect today.

I also still don't feel like mac has even come close to addressing my early concern about him:

Spoiler: show

I also have genuine concerns about Mac's progression on nutella:

Spoiler: show

It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

Sloonei nutella isn't getting the gun because we're in a game with a lot of non regs and most of them don't trust and are triggered by her usual behaviours, just shouting about it isn't going to help. You had a chance to give me the gun because I had FG, Hyena, Dragomir etc. but frankly you blew it. Not me, you. You did this. And should be sad and ashamed of yourself.

He made all three of these posts to justify not letting her have the gun. She's too good of a player to have a read on this early, he insists. We can't trust her with the gun when it's entirely possible that he scum game is just a perfect reflection of her town game at this stage!

And that he decides to shoot that very same player on Night 1.

He repeatedly downplayed my calls for nutella to get the gun because she's too good of a player for anyone to have a clear sense of her alignment at that stage of the game. But then he goes ahead and shoots her anyway.

The nutella suspicion (in general) never made sense to me, and I'm beginning to think it was amplified by an opportunistic scum team.

Yeah and what were the names of the players that were pushing me to shoot Nutella?

I didn't say Nutella wasn't getting the gun because she's too good of a player you lightweight. I said she wasn't getting the gun because the players in this game that aren't used to her were triggered by her usual behaviour and she wasn't trusted enough so going that way was a waste of time trying to go that way. Notwithstanding that several people seemed to want her dead.

It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

Also I destroyed Boo to a degree few have ever been destroyed. You're being a tunneling lightweight. Get out of the tunnel lightweight.

[citation needed]

Those were my explanations for not trusting her myself. They were not my arguments for why she shouldn't have the gun. You even quoted where I said that she wasn't getting the gun because nobody else trusts her. On day 1 I flip flopped on my Nutella read. I do that. In every game. That we play in. Ffs.

[MacDougall]

FG if you have an actual good reason to town read me to the degree you are I would love for you to play that trump card before I get 86ed.

[Sloonei]

I am suspected literally for the below reasons:

1. Jack talked me out of shooting him at the last minute with ATE.

Literally no.
2. Nutella provoked me a lot and I was tinfoiling the shit out of her and half the game wanted her shot so I changed my Jack shot to her instead without thinking on it much.[/quote]You shot nutella after saying it was too early to town read.

3. Dragomir (and probably the scum team more generally) didn't want Duskfall to have the gun and gave it to me instead and now I look guilty through Dragomir interactions.

Yeah.

I have no argument against the logic of the case frankly. I look bad. If I get shot so be it. But ONCE I DO if someone ANYONE doesn't re-read my posts through the lens of them being sincere I will be very upset.

I will endorse this. If Mac gets shot and flips town, please look at boo.
If mac gets shot and flips mafia, also look at boo. I wouldn't put it past him to bus his teammate hard if he think he's going down.

[MacDougall]

Sounds like you just want to look at boo.

[MacDougall]

I am suspected literally for the below reasons:

1. Jack talked me out of shooting him at the last minute with ATE.

Literally no.
2. Nutella provoked me a lot and I was tinfoiling the shit out of her and half the game wanted her shot so I changed my Jack shot to her instead without thinking on it much.

You shot nutella after saying it was too early to town read.

3. Dragomir (and probably the scum team more generally) didn't want Duskfall to have the gun and gave it to me instead and now I look guilty through Dragomir interactions.

Yeah.

I have no argument against the logic of the case frankly. I look bad. If I get shot so be it. But ONCE I DO if someone ANYONE doesn't re-read my posts through the lens of them being sincere I will be very upset.

I will endorse this. If Mac gets shot and flips town, please look at boo.
If mac gets shot and flips mafia, also look at boo. I wouldn't put it past him to bus his teammate hard if he think he's going down.
[/quote]

I shot nutella. I did that. I suck. Fuck me. I hated myself for it. I ran away from the game ashamed of myself. Fucks sake how can you not see that?

[Sloonei]

Those were my explanations for not trusting her myself. They were not my arguments for why she shouldn't have the gun. You even quoted where I said that she wasn't getting the gun because nobody else trusts her. On day 1 I flip flopped on my Nutella read. I do that. In every game. That we play in. Ffs.

This is not my issue. My issue is that you argued against trusting nutella because it was too early to determine whether or not she was town, but it was evidently not too early to shoot her on suspicion of being mafia. The former implies we require more time to sort her out. The latter is a booming statement that we don't.

[Hyena]

Should Boo get shot first? If he flips mafia, is there a chance that Jack and Mac are both town?

[Sloonei]

Sounds like you just want to look at boo.

Fringe is a good show.

[MacDougall]

Those were my explanations for not trusting her myself. They were not my arguments for why she shouldn't have the gun. You even quoted where I said that she wasn't getting the gun because nobody else trusts her. On day 1 I flip flopped on my Nutella read. I do that. In every game. That we play in. Ffs.

This is not my issue. My issue is that you argued against trusting nutella because it was too early to determine whether or not she was town, but it was evidently not too early to shoot her on suspicion of being mafia. The former implies we require more time to sort her out. The latter is a booming statement that we don't.

This is really you projecting your own capacity to be perfect onto someone who is notably imperfect Sloonei.

I was tinfoiling Nutella demonstrably a lot. I had the role PM on Jack submitted. Jack came out and was all "do it bitch" this and "you'll look like a fool" that" and I panicked and shot the person I was tinfoiling.

There's a reason for that. Nobody was an obvious Mafioso. Dragomir was buddying me (as I demonstrated when I said I would need convincing cuz he armed me), I had a town read on Boo at the time. I felt strong town pings from everyone except you and Nutella, who outside of Jack were the only two people I really suspected at the time and more people wanted Nutella shot than wanted you shot, so I just switched to her then saw the flip and died inside.

[MacDougall]

I humoured for a moment shooting Nanook. I didn't feel like a night 1 shot on Wilgy or G-Man would go down well because I'd talked myself up as being this amazing D1 player and I figured if I shot them and they flipped town that I'd get mollywhopped for being a gigantic bitch. So I just shot Nutella.

Do I regret it? No not really. Shooting Nutella is funny.

[Sloonei]

it is true that i'm perfect, i won't argue their.

[MacDougall]

Sounds like you just want to look at boo.

Fringe is a good show.

Firmly in my favourite all time list. Probably largely because it somehow against all odds completed a full run.

[MacDougall]

it is true that i'm perfect, i won't argue their.

Please tell me that this was unintended.

[Hyena]

it is true that i'm perfect, i won't argue their.

they're

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

[MacDougall]

I do appreciate you actually giving me something to defend against though. In the main I've mostly been just forced to try to project town as much as I could in the face of vague negative dispersions.

[Sloonei]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

who's bad?

[MacDougall]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

I was rolling around in bed last night and arrived at a point where I think you are town somehow even though by POE it shouldn't be plausible so if that were to be true then the POE is at least partially bunk. I am genuinely lockscum on Boo, but whether I'm right or wrong about that I feel like there is a wolf that isn't getting any heat really at all. If so, who the fuck is it? If you take me out of your POE who comes into view for you?

Fair play to you if you're a wolf but you've made some posts that helped me see your townie mind flickering.

[G-Man]

@G-Man Jack and Mac are running a divide and conquer gambit. It's playing off of Johann's total distrust of me, your and Wilgy's general not keeping up, FGs regularly going all over the place as she tries to make up her mind, and my ability to generally alienate other town. I'm not really sure how they're fitting in Hyena.

If you trust your gut, (currently) vote for me, along with me and Nanook. We may need to shift the vote over to FG later in the day, bit that's where things currently stand.

Qué? Divide and conquer requires a little more tinfoil than I have in my pantry at the moment. That’s an awful lot of work for two baddies to engage in. Unless they’re desperate after being caught off guard by Dragomir’s death, why go to all that effort. It seems like working harder, not smarter.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

who's bad?

At least one of Boo and Wilgy. Probably paired with the other, Mac or Nanook.

Imo, everyone else is damn near cleared.

[MacDougall]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

who's bad?

This is my line. You're using it well though fair play.

[MacDougall]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

who's bad?

At least one of Boo and Wilgy. Probably paired with the other, Mac or Nanook.

Imo, everyone else is damn near cleared.

Only a town would have Nanook in their POE in your seat, I know this because I do too. A wolf would not bother even sniffing there if Nanook was town.

[MacDougall]

@G-Man Jack and Mac are running a divide and conquer gambit. It's playing off of Johann's total distrust of me, your and Wilgy's general not keeping up, FGs regularly going all over the place as she tries to make up her mind, and my ability to generally alienate other town. I'm not really sure how they're fitting in Hyena.

If you trust your gut, (currently) vote for me, along with me and Nanook. We may need to shift the vote over to FG later in the day, bit that's where things currently stand.

Qué? Divide and conquer requires a little more tinfoil than I have in my pantry at the moment. That’s an awful lot of work for two baddies to engage in. Unless they’re desperate after being caught off guard by Dragomir’s death, why go to all that effort. It seems like working harder, not smarter.

Wow G-man. Are you the hero we've been waiting for?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

I was rolling around in bed last night and arrived at a point where I think you are town somehow even though by POE it shouldn't be plausible so if that were to be true then the POE is at least partially bunk. I am genuinely lockscum on Boo, but whether I'm right or wrong about that I feel like there is a wolf that isn't getting any heat really at all. If so, who the fuck is it? If you take me out of your POE who comes into view for you?

Fair play to you if you're a wolf but you've made some posts that helped me see your townie mind flickering.

I mean, Nanook.

He busses as a wolf. Remember how well he pocketed DDL in Covid19 when he bussed MP? Did anyone here know Nanook wanted Drago dead before he shot him? His treatment of Wilgy and Boo (saying they were magically out of the poe and he wouldn’t say why) looks potentially teammate indicative.

I’m not saying it’s Nanook. I am saying he’s far and away the most suspicious player that most people aren’t worried about.

I’d probably go Wilgy->Boo->Nanook. Unless Wilgy and Boo both flip town in which case we’re screwed anyway.

[Sloonei]

It's currently 8 vs 2, but I'm essentially already dead so it's really 7 vs 2. I believe that gives town a total of 2 mis-shots. A 4-person POE should solve the game.

I am comfortable removing nanook and johann from the POE outright. funnygurl and hyena are also town reads, but I'm open to arguments against them.

If we're comfortable taking those four out of the pool, though, then we just need to clear one of the following: G-man, wilgy, boo, mac, jack.

When I placed a doofus vote on wilgy Day 1, Drago came down hard on me. I'm not sure that happens if Wilgy is his partner.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

who's bad?

At least one of Boo and Wilgy. Probably paired with the other, Mac or Nanook.

Imo, everyone else is damn near cleared.

Only a town would have Nanook in their POE in your seat, I know this because I do too. A wolf would not bother even sniffing there if Nanook was town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

It's currently 8 vs 2, but I'm essentially already dead so it's really 7 vs 2. I believe that gives town a total of 2 mis-shots. A 4-person POE should solve the game.

I am comfortable removing nanook and johann from the POE outright. funnygurl and hyena are also town reads, but I'm open to arguments against them.

If we're comfortable taking those four out of the pool, though, then we just need to clear one of the following: G-man, wilgy, boo, mac, jack.

When I placed a doofus vote on wilgy Day 1, Drago came down hard on me. I'm not sure that happens if Wilgy is his partner.

You shouldn’t have trouble clearing me or GMan considering you seem to have just read the entire game.

[MacDougall]

It's currently 8 vs 2, but I'm essentially already dead so it's really 7 vs 2. I believe that gives town a total of 2 mis-shots. A 4-person POE should solve the game.

I am comfortable removing nanook and johann from the POE outright. funnygurl and hyena are also town reads, but I'm open to arguments against them.

If we're comfortable taking those four out of the pool, though, then we just need to clear one of the following: G-man, wilgy, boo, mac, jack.

When I placed a doofus vote on wilgy Day 1, Drago came down hard on me. I'm not sure that happens if Wilgy is his partner.

Sounds like Mac needs to get himself out of the fucking POE then.

Let me try some superliminal messaging.

HEY YOU FUCKS. I AM TOWN. LOOK AT MY GIGANTIC TOWNIE BULGE. IT'S ENORMOUS AND TOWN SHAPED. MUCH LIKE YOURS FELLOW TOWNS. HEY CAN YOU TOWN READ ME PLEASE. I NEED TO NOT BE IN THE POE BECAUSE I AM TOWN AND ME BEING IN IT IS SPECIFICALLY GOING TO LOSE US THE GAME OR AT LEAST LIKE PARTIALLY CONTRIBUTE AND I DON'T NEED THAT SHIT ON MY CONSCIENCE.

[Sloonei]

It's currently 8 vs 2, but I'm essentially already dead so it's really 7 vs 2. I believe that gives town a total of 2 mis-shots. A 4-person POE should solve the game.

I am comfortable removing nanook and johann from the POE outright. funnygurl and hyena are also town reads, but I'm open to arguments against them.

If we're comfortable taking those four out of the pool, though, then we just need to clear one of the following: G-man, wilgy, boo, mac, jack.

When I placed a doofus vote on wilgy Day 1, Drago came down hard on me. I'm not sure that happens if Wilgy is his partner.

You shouldn’t have trouble clearing me or GMan considering you seem to have just read the entire game.

Tell me why Jackofhearts2005 deserves to be cleared.

[Sloonei]

I recommend doing a trustfall at some point.