Corrupt!? Mafia (ENDGAME)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Ok Jack, if it's not you, then who? Let's pretend we're both town for a minute. Let's say Boo is mafia. Who should replace you/me in the POE?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Is it...wilgy, or FG, both called to unnecessarily by Drago? And in FG's favor a very genuine looking "Oh yeah Drago exists, he's a good shot" post. (This non-partner read backed up by sloonei's analysis as well IIRC)

Is it...GMan? Hyena?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I'm gonna (probably hopefully) take a nap now, but if you make a good faith effort to engage me here I'll do the same. You're not wrong that you and Boo are a bit of an awkward fit, but you both have the least town points in your favor FMPOV, so /shrug

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

(By the by as a general note and not to anyone specifically, don’t assume that I’m not doing any work just because I don’t typically show my work.)

[G-Man]

Questions abound today. Sorry for the late arrival- I put my 4-year-old down for a nap, fell asleep beside her, and woke up two hours later. *facepalm*

All the talk seems to surround the POE of Boo, Jack, and Nanook. Someone said that Boo's flip could clear or damn others, so we've flirted with what comes next, but I want to hear everyone's firm opinion on each of these scenarios:

For Boo-

Boo gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Boo gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?


For Jack-

Jack gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Jack gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?


For Nanook-

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?



Honest answers please.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If someone were really intrepid they’d compare people’s choices for top two shot selections to their reads leading up to it. Alas, sloonei is dead and I’m unlikely to do that.

[Hyena]

Hmm...

[Hyena]

Whenever Wilgy posts, I want to shoot myself for thinking he's scum.

Also, I don't think I want to consider Nanook as potentially scum anymore.

Regardless, I still think we need to kill Boo here today and see what he flips as.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Btw Jack your comparison of my play to CM is sorely lacking. For one, you keep saying “Nanook buses!” and ignore the context of my buses—I only bused when it led to furthering my wincon and/or I had to, not solely for “cred” or whatever. It also ignores that I put in a fuckton of work to dig out of a narrow POE, whereas part of your argument this game is that I’m scum because I’m...not...doing...that. So. There’s also that your “Nanook buses!” argument is being made at the same time as the argument that I’m hard shielding my supposed partner, which is incongruous to say the least.

So yeah, your “case” on me is full of holes and functionally amounts to “but what if he’s mafia tho”

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There’s your fucking defense now eat a shoe

[Hyena]

Three and a half (Gman/Hyena/Johann, FG as a half cause she remembered him late).

There were also three people that listed Jack as a first or second shot option (Boo, FG, Mac). Two apiece for Boo (Hyena, Jack) and FG (Drago, Jack).

So, if Jack is scum, both he and Drago both pushed for Funny to be shot but also didn't push for me to get shot. Jack being scum would also make Boo town in my head, which would mean that there's a good chance that everyone who picked Jack to be shot could be town.

I think it's starting to make sense in my head that Jack is scum, and not with Boo.
[/quote]

[Hyena]

Okay, I think I'm feeling better now about a Jack shot tonight over a Boo shot.

[Hyena]

I am supremely uncomfortable with this "towncore." (I know people will say "Jack is just scum for pushing against a correct towncore" but I don't care.)

Nanook just endgame won against an entire town that scumread him. He basically soloed the win after losing one teammate D2 and the other had to be replaced twice and died the phase after the second replacement.

Nutella stepped up her scumgame a lot in the last two, three performances including fooling me (who would normally catch her on D1 or D2) and getting vig killed on like N3 after not being voted for a single time all game).

I am 0 and 3 in reading Dusk.

You might as well add Sloonei to the core if you really want to tilt me.

I had forgotten Jack had pushed against the initial towncore Nutella put together. Coincidentally, or maybe NOT so, I started drifting away from my Nanook top townread partially because of the arguments Jack was making. This tinfoily, but could Jack have been trying to pocket me and turn me against Nanook?

(Note: the other people who pushed against the towncore were Dusk, Johann, and Funny.)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

(The alternative I’m ignoring is that hyena is actually mafia that a bunch of town were on. But I don’t *think* that’s the case mostly based off instinct, so. I’m pretending it’s just that he’s town.)

[Jackofhearts2005]

Ok Jack, if it's not you, then who? Let's pretend we're both town for a minute. Let's say Boo is mafia. Who should replace you/me in the POE?

If I magically knew you were town and Boo was scum, I'd be looking at how people reacted to things today.

FG and Hyena are pushing to keep you out of the poe. Both have said one of me and Boo should be scum, which isn't logical. These things make sense from a perspective of the scumteam being Nanook/FG or Nanook/Hyena. They mislynch Boo and use that flip to pursue a mislynch on me ftw. These things do not make sense from the perspective of a Boo/FG or a Boo/Hyena scumteam. They're giving up a Nanook mislynch. They're probably giving up a Jack mislynch because honestly, Boo always goes before me unless they take matters into their own hands. Even if FG or Hyena gets the gun and shoots me, it locks Boo into the next lynch by their own reasoning (and by a third townie that Boo said he was certain was scum and died saying to shoot Boo) and makes them look bad for personally shooting me instead of Boo. Basically, FG and Hyena's play today damn near rules them out from being scum with Boo in particular.

GMan has wrung his hands a lot today. In a town Nanook, scum Boo world, I can't rule him out atm. He's townread Boo and wanted to hang onto that read. My gut instinct is still that he's town even if you flip town but he'd be a player I start looking at harder.

Wilgy has laid out two worlds. 1) Jack is right and Nanook/Boo are mafia. 2) Jack is mafia with Boo. So if he's teamed with Boo, he's already in bus mode. I think trying to tie Nanook or Jack (who we magically know are town in this exercise) would be a bad look.

I'm kinda like
80% - Nanook and Boo
5% - Nanook and FG
5% - Nanook and Hyena
5% - Boo and Wilgy
2.5% - Nanook and GMan
2.5% - Boo and GMan

I can probably find reasons to adjust a lot of those percentages if that first one wasn't just so high.

This is again why I'm advocating for a Nanook lynch. It's just way easier to hide as his teammate. Even a Nanook townflip does a ton to solve the game. Puts us in a position where we really only have to evaluate two players. I'd much rather shoot town Nanook and risk the game on figuring out which of 2 players is Boo's partner than shoot town Boo and then 1) have to find Nanook's teammate in a pool of 4 players and 2) have to fight Nanook, Nanook's teammate and a couple townies who are hanging onto Nanook townreads to actually get the gun to even get the 1 in 4 chance to win.

If I have no scum, we lose. If I have both scum, we win. If I have one scum, and we shoot scum first, it doesn't really matter. If I have one scum and we shoot town first, I'd much prefer to shoot town Nanook over town Boo.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I like how you took an olive branch hypothetical and turned it back into “fuck you you’re scum.”

Like you could’ve just saved words and time by saying “no I can’t imagine that” instead of grandstanding

[Jackofhearts2005]

For Boo-

Boo gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
Should clear me. (I should already be cleared got damn.) Should clear Hyena and FG. Should clear Mac RIP. Should clear Nutella RIP.
From your pov, Wilgy and Nanook should be Boo's only likely partners.

Boo gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
Not really imo.

For Jack-

Jack gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
N/A

Jack gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
If I get shot, shoot Nanook and then whoever shoots me. Seriously. I townread FG but if she shoots me, her equity with Nanook goes way up. She came around to townreading me. She's been at ground zero for all the truthbombs about Nanook's alignment from me and Johann. If in spite of that, she shoots me, I'd bet the game on her over Boo. My town flip confirms Mac RIP.

For Nanook-

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
Me and Johann RIP. Boo is most likely his teammate but honestly, so many people have townread Nanook for the shot it's hard to pick out which one is lying if it's not just Boo.

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
I think it clears Hyena and FG. They're never mafia without Nanook.


Honest answers please.

My answers in green.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I like how you took an olive branch hypothetical and turned it back into “fuck you you’re scum.”

Like you could’ve just saved words and time by saying “no I can’t imagine that” instead of grandstanding

[Jackofhearts2005]

There’s your fucking defense now eat a shoe

I don't want why you're town. I want why you think I'm scum or why you think Boo is town.

[Funnygurl555]

[Funnygurl555]

alright so it's not like jack or boo did anything to make themselves w/t. but given the wolf team options we have left, if one's t there's a good chance the other's w. and they're not w/w imo 'cause like that's disgusting

[Funnygurl555]

Sorry for the late arrival- I put my 4-year-old down for a nap, fell asleep beside her, and woke up two hours later. *facepalm*

WHOLESOME CONTENT.

For Boo-

Boo gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Boo gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?

maf: most likely jack. and the logical choice of teammate? m... wilgy or hyena are options, as well as nanook

civ: think jack's most likely mafia then

For Jack-

Jack gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Jack gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?

maf: it'd clear nanook. teammates, i'd look at wilgy

civ: no it doesn't clear anyone. i'd go for one of boo or nanook there

For Nanook-

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?

maf: it'd clear jack. teammate could be .. me o___O for fighting his death

civ: nah it doesn't town clear anyone. it makes me sus jack more for sure

damn this is a bad list so maybe i gotta bring out the coffee tn OOF

[Funnygurl555]

also i slept until 7pm today. it's my day off of work and i wasted it like that

don't work until late afternoon tmrw tho so an all nighter is an option

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

There’s your fucking defense now eat a shoe

I don't want why you're town. I want why you think I'm scum or why you think Boo is town.

Started as largely a POE read with a bit of sheeping sloonei, developed into “oh he’s pushing me, that fits a scum agenda exactly,” coupled with “the things he’s saying about my game/how I play are demonstrably not true” that makes it tough to think you’re town

As for boo it’s purely tone/I kind of want to believe he’s town. I’m clearly wavering on that today.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Like jack, if we’re both town, we almost definitely lose right? I think we can agree on that much at least, yeah? So I’m trying to put in the work to see if maybe I’m wrong, but like...if your response 9 times out of 10 is just what amounts to “lol Nanook so scummy” I don’t really see much in the way of options available to me

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like jack, if we’re both town, we almost definitely lose right? I think we can agree on that much at least, yeah? So I’m trying to put in the work to see if maybe I’m wrong, but like...if your response 9 times out of 10 is just what amounts to “lol Nanook so scummy” I don’t really see much in the way of options available to me

Yeah, town probably loses if we’re both town.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

K, good talk, guess I’m continuing to hope you’re mafia playing pro-mafia then.

[G-Man]

Queries of the follow-up kind for you, Jack:

For Boo-

Boo gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
Should clear me. (I should already be cleared got damn.) Should clear Hyena and FG. Should clear Mac RIP. Should clear Nutella RIP.
From your pov, Wilgy and Nanook should be Boo's only likely partners.

Boo gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
Not really imo.

I agree that Boo flipping mafia would be a good look for you. There doesn't seem to be much room for compatibility between you and Boo. If anyone disagrees, please speak up. I assume then, that if Boo flips civ, then your first choice for the next shot is still Nanook? If it's not Nanook & Boo, who is Nanook's teammate?

For Jack-

Jack gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
N/A

Jack gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
If I get shot, shoot Nanook and then whoever shoots me. Seriously. I townread FG but if she shoots me, her equity with Nanook goes way up. She came around to townreading me. She's been at ground zero for all the truthbombs about Nanook's alignment from me and Johann. If in spite of that, she shoots me, I'd bet the game on her over Boo. My town flip confirms Mac RIP.

You're biased in this, so it's not surprising that you paint your death as being the least revealing.

For Nanook-

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
Me and Johann RIP. Boo is most likely his teammate but honestly, so many people have townread Nanook for the shot it's hard to pick out which one is lying if it's not just Boo.

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
I think it clears Hyena and FG. They're never mafia without Nanook.

Again, there doesn't seem to be much compatibility between you and Nanook unless you are teaching us all a doctorate level class in distancing. Why do you say that Funnygurl and Hyena are town-cleared by a Nanook death? What negates a pairing of either of them with Boo or you?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Cause apparently when I defend/TR hyena and funny it’s something I wouldn’t do as mafia but when I defend/TR boo it totally is.

I guess?

Idk I’m not really paying attention to Jack’s “logic” anymore tbh

[leetic]

[mention]boo[/mention]
[mention]DrWilgy[/mention]
[mention]Funnygurl555[/mention]
[mention]G-Man[/mention]
[mention]Hyena[/mention]
[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]
[mention]Johann[/mention]
[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention]

Johann died of poison! He was vanilla town.

Funnygurl555 was given the gun! She has 24 hours to choose somebody to shoot.

[G-Man]

Queries for you, Funnygurl:

For Boo-

Boo gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Boo gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?

maf: most likely jack. and the logical choice of teammate? m... wilgy or hyena are options, as well as nanook

civ: think jack's most likely mafia then

I'm with you on a baddie Boo flip looking good for Jack. What is your current POE and why does it shift to Wilgy, Hyena, and Nanook based on a baddie Boo flip? In the case of a civ Boo flip, why Jack over Nanook for mafia?

For Jack-

Jack gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Jack gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?

maf: it'd clear nanook. teammates, i'd look at wilgy

civ: no it doesn't clear anyone. i'd go for one of boo or nanook there

I agree with it clearing Nanook. I'd argue Boo as well. Why do you include Hyena in your post-baddie-flip for Boo scenario but not your post-baddie-flip for Jack? What's the incompatibility keeping Hyena from that list?

For Nanook-

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?

maf: it'd clear jack. teammate could be .. me o___O for fighting his death

civ: nah it doesn't town clear anyone. it makes me sus jack more for sure

Agree that Nanook-Jack most likely isn't a thing. Interesting take on yourself there. This is why I have trouble reading you. Do you disagree with Jack's take that a Nanook civ-flip looks good for both you and Hyena? If so, why?

[Funnygurl555]

short answer to everything: i need to reread x_____x but not now. first must finish watching you

and

thanks for the gun

[Funnygurl555]

oh also not shooting nanook LOL y'all no.

[Funnygurl555]

unless you really really want me to nanook

then i won't reread and just see things play out

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Idk, I’m (mostly) over my despondent phase, I think shot probably has to be between myself and jack at this point. I’m not as confident he’s a wolf as I’m pretending to be but I don’t see how we win if we’re both alive and town...so yeah. That’s my answer for now at least, if jack comes in and actually engages with me in good faith, and is town, then we can reevaluate I guess. Seems like he’s pretty much locked into the 1v1 though so that likely needs to be resolved, I don’t particularly care which order it goes in.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Queries of the follow-up kind for you, Jack:

For Boo-

Boo gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
Should clear me. (I should already be cleared got damn.) Should clear Hyena and FG. Should clear Mac RIP. Should clear Nutella RIP.
From your pov, Wilgy and Nanook should be Boo's only likely partners.

Boo gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
Not really imo.

I agree that Boo flipping mafia would be a good look for you. There doesn't seem to be much room for compatibility between you and Boo. If anyone disagrees, please speak up. I assume then, that if Boo flips civ, then your first choice for the next shot is still Nanook? If it's not Nanook & Boo, who is Nanook's teammate?

For Jack-

Jack gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
N/A

Jack gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
If I get shot, shoot Nanook and then whoever shoots me. Seriously. I townread FG but if she shoots me, her equity with Nanook goes way up. She came around to townreading me. She's been at ground zero for all the truthbombs about Nanook's alignment from me and Johann. If in spite of that, she shoots me, I'd bet the game on her over Boo. My town flip confirms Mac RIP.

You're biased in this, so it's not surprising that you paint your death as being the least revealing.

For Nanook-

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips mafia. Does that town clear anyone? Who is the logical choice in light of that for his teammate?
Me and Johann RIP. Boo is most likely his teammate but honestly, so many people have townread Nanook for the shot it's hard to pick out which one is lying if it's not just Boo.

Nanook gets shot tonight and flips civvie. Does that town clear anyone? Does that damn anyone as surefire mafia?
I think it clears Hyena and FG. They're never mafia without Nanook.

Again, there doesn't seem to be much compatibility between you and Nanook unless you are teaching us all a doctorate level class in distancing. Why do you say that Funnygurl and Hyena are town-cleared by a Nanook death? What negates a pairing of either of them with Boo or you?

Hyena and FG don’t try to keep Boo in the poe and Nanook our of it if they’re teamed with Boo. They only need 2 mislynches. Johann and I have hit Nanook hard today. If FG is scum with Boo, why is she not just all into killing Nanook, the townie who shot her partner and still has heavy suspicion? Because....she’s not teamed with Boo. Or Hyena or Wilgy or anyone except maybe Nanook. Same with Hyena. If he was both a wolf and not teamed with Nanook, he’d be a voice to shoot Nanook.

My role card negates them from being paired with me. I’m not wasting my time talking about who could be my partner or who is cleared when I flip scum.

[Jackofhearts2005]

oh also not shooting nanook LOL y'all no.

The last two players to flip town told you to shoot Nanook.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Mac had like 5 people he said he’d shoot before me

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nanook apparently somehow thinks I am scum now after reading me correctly as town all game on tone to the point where he a) welcomed me to the towncore off my first post, b) accepted my derp clear until he just didn't anymore, provided no explanation for why I am scum aside from "POE" and is getting no suspicion because he shot Dragomir.

In my experience when townies have pet town reads that get stuck in the POE they fight against their inclusion. Much like Nanook has been for his teammates as opposed to me.

Literally Mac’s last post is outlining why you should be shot.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Mac’s top suspects were Nanook and Boo.
Johann’s top suspects were Nanook and Boo.
My top suspects are Nanook and Boo.

The people who haven’t read just need to sheep the players who have.

[Funnygurl555]

finished you

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Funnygurl555]

it is time to reread at least the first day phase and get myself to figure out who to shoot

will be a long night and i dont have caffeine orz

anyone up

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m playing mm but sort of around

[Funnygurl555]

do you actually want to die? if so i'll just shoot you and call it a night

[Funnygurl555]

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean I guess I don’t, but it’s probably better to shoot me than anyone not named jack

[Funnygurl555]

pfffffffffffffff

g u y s idk this isn't a wolf

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Who are you talking about

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Like ok, basically where I’m at is either lock me town or kill me now. I’m petty and thin skinned and not really interested in another day of fighting, so if I’m not gonna be considered locked town I’d prefer to just be shot now and you can sheep my reads after my flip

Is that selfish? Yes.

[Funnygurl555]

Also I don't really know how to read you without mikey :P

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

i miss mikey

ok so so far what i'm getting from my reading is that drago x nanook is kinda a no