Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[Spacedaisy]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

This post reads town to me....

[Hally]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

This post reads town to me....

how so? i dont see that

it just looks like more complaining about people not town reading him to me

[Long Con]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

how does people’s read on you relate to her at all? you’re not new to this site, she is. you’re not overwhelmed by the pace of this game, she is. i mean like, idk why you are drawing a comparison here when there is none?

I disagree that there is none. You don't have the experience being me, though, so I understand why you wouldn't have the proper reference to draw the comparison yourself.

[Long Con]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

This post reads town to me....

how so? i dont see that

it just looks like more complaining about people not town reading him to me

That's a SLIGHTLY unfair judgment given that it was a response to Jay's specifically-crafted situation.

[Spacedaisy]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

This post reads town to me....

how so? i dont see that

it just looks like more complaining about people not town reading him to me

I don't feel like it's fake. It sounds to me like he's sincerely frustrated by something that doesn't make sense to him.

[Hally]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

how does people’s read on you relate to her at all? you’re not new to this site, she is. you’re not overwhelmed by the pace of this game, she is. i mean like, idk why you are drawing a comparison here when there is none?

I disagree that there is none. You don't have the experience being me, though, so I understand why you wouldn't have the proper reference to draw the comparison yourself.

whats the point youre making though? that if we tr her we should tr you? or if we sr you we should sr her? like... the standards for you both are not the same. when shes played a thousand games here get back to me

[Hally]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

This post reads town to me....

how so? i dont see that

it just looks like more complaining about people not town reading him to me

I don't feel like it's fake. It sounds to me like he's sincerely frustrated by something that doesn't make sense to him.

yes, but he can be sincerely frustrated at that as scum. its totally NAI imo

[Spacedaisy]

I'm not proposing give him a town pass, just that I don't feel as comfortable with my vote where it is at this time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don’t fault you for that gripe, Long Con. The difference is subtle, and difficult to describe with clarity. I feel a sense of positive energy from KitsuShel in her efforts to stay current with the game. She is in a new world where nobody ever shuts up, and it excites her. She wants to be a part of it. This can be faked as can most things, but I rarely concern myself with “can”.

Your play was, before our kerfuffle, less outwardly encouraging. I could not extract reassuring feelings from the things you said and did. And then you detonated out of nowhere in a way that is very hard to understand, leaving everyone to throw their hands up and say “wtf?”. That’s not something that tends to build trust.

[Long Con]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

how does people’s read on you relate to her at all? you’re not new to this site, she is. you’re not overwhelmed by the pace of this game, she is. i mean like, idk why you are drawing a comparison here when there is none?

I disagree that there is none. You don't have the experience being me, though, so I understand why you wouldn't have the proper reference to draw the comparison yourself.

whats the point youre making though? that if we tr her we should tr you? or if we sr you we should sr her? like... the standards for you both are not the same. when shes played a thousand games here get back to me

My point is that the townread on her is based on an extremely minimal slice of content, which itself is thin, and a lot more friendly, sociable stuff that's personality and I don't see how it's not NAI. Like if you are just giving a new player a pass on Day 1, that's totally fine, I support that kind of thing, but at least be honest about it?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Never chop Daisy by the way. Just don’t do it folks. Don’t make me pull my hair out in dead chat watching that.

[Long Con]

I don’t fault you for that gripe, Long Con. The difference is subtle, and difficult to describe with clarity. I feel a sense of positive energy from KitsuShel in her efforts to stay current with the game. She is in a new world where nobody ever shuts up, and it excites her. She wants to be a part of it. This can be faked as can most things, but I rarely concern myself with “can”.

Your play was, before our kerfuffle, less outwardly encouraging. I could not extract reassuring feelings from the things you said and did. And then you detonated out of nowhere in a way that is very hard to understand, leaving everyone to throw their hands up and say “wtf?”. That’s not something that tends to build trust.

Ok, I guess I don't have a positive energy radar, because I honestly don't understand that concept in the slightest. Maybe I'd be a better Day 1 player if I did.

[Spacedaisy]

I'm going to switch to Colin until I can figure out where I want my vote instead.

[VOTE: ColinIsCool] aubergine

[Hally]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

how does people’s read on you relate to her at all? you’re not new to this site, she is. you’re not overwhelmed by the pace of this game, she is. i mean like, idk why you are drawing a comparison here when there is none?

I disagree that there is none. You don't have the experience being me, though, so I understand why you wouldn't have the proper reference to draw the comparison yourself.

whats the point youre making though? that if we tr her we should tr you? or if we sr you we should sr her? like... the standards for you both are not the same. when shes played a thousand games here get back to me

My point is that the townread on her is based on an extremely minimal slice of content, which itself is thin, and a lot more friendly, sociable stuff that's personality and I don't see how it's not NAI. Like if you are just giving a new player a pass on Day 1, that's totally fine, I support that kind of thing, but at least be honest about it?

its really got nothing to do with that. i see a genuine town spark in her posts thats independent of the raw volume of content shes given

idk what to tell you

[Hally]

[mention]Long Con[/mention] where are you at with your jay read?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Given the progression of the day I view Colin as a viable chop option. Choption.

[Long Con]

@Long Con, imagine a hypothetical world where JaggedJimmyJay expresses suspicion of you identical to what you’ve said about KitsuShel (imagine your posts are similar to hers for this exercise).

How do you believe you respond to that?

THAT'S the whole reason I'm bewildered about this, because when my posts are just like that, this is the kind of reads that come out of it! "Long Con hasn't given many reads, and it's scummy." "Long Con just does banter and mechanics talk, and it's scummy."

That's exactly why I brought this up asking why Kitsu is getting so townread. I'm an expert in getting scumread for the same Day 1 behaviour, y'all.

how does people’s read on you relate to her at all? you’re not new to this site, she is. you’re not overwhelmed by the pace of this game, she is. i mean like, idk why you are drawing a comparison here when there is none?

I disagree that there is none. You don't have the experience being me, though, so I understand why you wouldn't have the proper reference to draw the comparison yourself.

whats the point youre making though? that if we tr her we should tr you? or if we sr you we should sr her? like... the standards for you both are not the same. when shes played a thousand games here get back to me

My point is that the townread on her is based on an extremely minimal slice of content, which itself is thin, and a lot more friendly, sociable stuff that's personality and I don't see how it's not NAI. Like if you are just giving a new player a pass on Day 1, that's totally fine, I support that kind of thing, but at least be honest about it?

its really got nothing to do with that. i see a genuine town spark in her posts thats independent of the raw volume of content shes given

idk what to tell you

Like I said to Jay, I literally have no understanding of how the tone of her posts can possibly be read alignment related.

[Long Con]

I do, however, understand the concept of being brand-new to a site and not knowing many people. I am not going to push for her chop.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In hindsight, I have entirely screwed up the town to mafia ratio in this game since I've given the entire town my unchoppableness. I think adding eight more wolves and a vigilante or two will set things right. Please stand by for new role pms.

Spoiler: show

I was just going to say it would be funny if jack created a game that was just all town. It would be like a monsters are due on maple street type deal. Jack is the only real mafia making us all turn on each other.

this “what if we’re all town” speculation is, in my experience, more likely to actually come from town

I like that take. Sabie town.

If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

[Long Con]

@Long Con where are you at with your jay read?

I still find it suspicious that he completely disregarded my usual day 1 play in order to throw shade on me.

[Spacedaisy]

If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

What is the purpose in this statement?

[Spacedaisy]

If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

What is the purpose in this statement?

Sorry the bold isn't too obvious.

[Long Con]

In hindsight, I have entirely screwed up the town to mafia ratio in this game since I've given the entire town my unchoppableness. I think adding eight more wolves and a vigilante or two will set things right. Please stand by for new role pms.

Spoiler: show

I was just going to say it would be funny if jack created a game that was just all town. It would be like a monsters are due on maple street type deal. Jack is the only real mafia making us all turn on each other.

this “what if we’re all town” speculation is, in my experience, more likely to actually come from town

I like that take. Sabie town.

If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

Actually, I don't really have a great town read on sebi anymore, because I looked at her ISO, and I had 15 posts in a multi quote ready to go, then I came in here and real timed it with you guys, and absently deleted the multi quote, as I thought I was all caught up in responses.

I'll have to get it all together again, but I'm not doing it tonight.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

What is the purpose in this statement?

To share one contrary thought about a suspect that exists in my brain

[Spacedaisy]

If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

What is the purpose in this statement?

To share one contrary thought about a suspect that exists in my brain

I don't follow.

[Spacedaisy]

Are you expressing suspicion of Sabie?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

What is the purpose in this statement?

Sorry the bold isn't too obvious.

Oh

The mafia are ill-advised to work against mischops that could be within their reach. sabie may be easier to take out than the loudmouths just given that it’s generally easier to chop quieter players. So LC’s support of her, at least in that moment, wasn’t what I’d call a pro-mafia move (assuming sabie is a civilian).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are you expressing suspicion of Sabie?

No

[Spacedaisy]

Ok, I follow now

[Funnygurl555]

i like daisy now

still not sold on kitsu being town

[Long Con]

i like daisy now

still not sold on kitsu being town

Ok, now we're getting a little mindmeldy.

[Alison]

@JaggedJimmyJay
ohh looks like your game produced the first scum

[VOTE: TonyStark] aubergine

Talk to me about this case

[Alison]

Mafia-aligned Long Con responded to suspicion from me with loud No Us in Take Me Out to the Ballgame.

Are LC and FG w/w in your mind?

Could be. I have no reason off-hand to say they are not.

They'd have to both be pursuing the same strategy with little interaction between the two of them and without a glance to anything else. Seems too on the nose.

sounds plausible to me. why do you think it's not the case?

[Funnygurl555]

i like daisy now

still not sold on kitsu being town

Ok, now we're getting a little mindmeldy.

[Alison]

And yet, I always get suspected for the way I normally play.

At this point, you seem to be encouraging that on purpose.

If you somehow don't understand how I can play the way I have played so far as a civilian, find your answers here. I don't often manage to bring it all together as effectively as I did in that game, and it reminded me of styles I had lost sight of in recent memory:

~ Empower your teammates
~ Listen carefully
~ Let people do their thing their own way
~ Facilitate an environment of kindness and love where towns can flourish
~ Serve as a level and disciplined leader to help keep the game oriented in a productive direction

My play is a philosophy of its own, and I am trying to play to it the right way as I had been failing to do in much of 2019.

many different playstyles exist and can find scum in their own way. I think LC is scum here but I don't inherently disagreeing with the idea of just going hard on someone you suspect without trying to talk to them. I have seen such interactions expose scum, and I have seen such interactions end with townies finding each other. My issue in this particular instance is that the overdramatic way he did it makes me think it was not genuine.

[Alison]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Why are you moving off LC?

[Alison]

You two are just W/W and this whole thing with the clash of playstyles is just elaborate scum theater and I'm not buying it sorry

[Alison]

can we not

like this game was going so well

suddenly its a sludge pool that i dont wanna go near

big rip

probably because mafia members came into the thread and were upset that townies were working too well together so they intentionally started a fight in a very loud and dragged-out way that repulses people from reading it

[Alison]

Binary process of elimination style. Names are not ordered within groups:

TonyStarkPrime
Spacedaisy
Wisp
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
Nanook
Hally

ColinIsCool
Long Con
DrWilgy
sprityo
Funnygurl555

my list is this with the following changes:
- Hally to null. I still can't get over how weird the early interactions with FG were and I'm generally don't want to let go of things that genuinely bother me, which this does. I no longer think she's W/W with FG because of later interactions but the awkwardness doesn't sit right with me and that cancels out the other townie stuff she's done.

- Wisp to null. In a vacuum their play doesn't make sense. I'm told this is their town meta. Taking advantage of a town meta to push bad ideas? Maybe. Or could be just townie playing the way they usually do. I'm conflicted so I'm putting Wisp into the null pool.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Why are you moving off LC?

Because the day phase is long and there are more players to solve. Voting is a part of making that happen.

When it comes to actually removing a player from the game, the only vote that matters is the last.

[Alison]

it can stay well if people react to pressure better lol
given I should probably eat my own words

did anyone even react to my Tony vote?

@TonyStarkPrime whaddya got

it's minor lol
but he was the first person from what I remember to stray from game, with "who?"
it bothers me on a fundamental level. Given game 6, and the game I used it in, I would like to think, the chance of being a wolf is greater than 50% when they stray for the rules of the game

this is one of the posts that make me unable to townread wisp. It's just so far removed from a townie mentality

"it's minor - but it makes them more likely than 50% to be a wolf" (keep in mind that the base probability of being a wolf is like 20 to 30% depending on the setup ratio - so this doubles their probability of being a wolf)

and also the basis of the read itself is shaky for obvious reasons

[JaggedJimmyJay]

can we not

like this game was going so well

suddenly its a sludge pool that i dont wanna go near

big rip

probably because mafia members came into the thread and were upset that townies were working too well together so they intentionally started a fight in a very loud and dragged-out way that repulses people from reading it

I played a central role in building that environment of cooperation. If it was damaged, Long Con did it alone.

[Alison]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Why are you moving off LC?

Because the day phase is long and there are more players to solve. Voting is a part of making that happen.

When it comes to actually removing a player from the game, the only vote that matters is the last.

I'll give you a pass for this because I think town JJJ does genuinely hop his vote around to try to solve people but if your vote doesn't end up back on LC by EoD and he flips scum I will make it my personal mission to get you lynched

[JaggedJimmyJay]

it can stay well if people react to pressure better lol
given I should probably eat my own words

did anyone even react to my Tony vote?

@TonyStarkPrime whaddya got

it's minor lol
but he was the first person from what I remember to stray from game, with "who?"
it bothers me on a fundamental level. Given game 6, and the game I used it in, I would like to think, the chance of being a wolf is greater than 50% when they stray for the rules of the game

this is one of the posts that make me unable to townread wisp. It's just so far removed from a townie mentality

"it's minor - but it makes them more likely than 50% to be a wolf" (keep in mind that the base probability of being a wolf is like 20 to 30% depending on the setup ratio - so this doubles their probability of being a wolf)

and also the basis of the read itself is shaky for obvious reasons

He did this exact thing in Game 6 and it caught him two mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Why are you moving off LC?

Because the day phase is long and there are more players to solve. Voting is a part of making that happen.

When it comes to actually removing a player from the game, the only vote that matters is the last.

I'll give you a pass for this because I think town JJJ does genuinely hop his vote around to try to solve people but if your vote doesn't end up back on LC by EoD and he flips scum I will make it my personal mission to get you lynched

I don’t know if I am supposed to interpret this as a vote demand, but I’m not taking chances with my role. Refer to my very first post.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

[Alison]

@JaggedJimmyJay
remind me why this grouping is green
TonyStarkPrime
Spacedaisy
KitsuShel
sable


or just point me to where u stated this

Spacedaisy, KitsuShel, and sabie12 are all in similar places for me. They may not have offered a wealth of content yet, but I will always take a stance. I believe all three of them have looked genuine in their efforts to get involved, and I have not caught a whiff of ulterior motives, acting, or faking from anything they've said to this point. I am perhaps less confident about this when it comes to sabie. That's okay. She'll make her posts and I'll see how I feel.

I agree with this

[Alison]

For context the alternative is nanook simply giving a classic reaction test like: "I have a N0 red check on you. Die, scum." and voting them. That's one basically everyone knows about, it's trivially easy to fake and it usually gets you townread. Instead he chose to go for the potato soup thing.

I mean tbf I did say I had a n0 on Jay lmao

But to your broader point, it’s something I might do if I thought it would get me towncred. I doubt I’d do it with this specific playerlist tho.

I believe this and I think you are town

[Alison]

@Epignosis
so what's your thoughts on this his one red lean?
didn't even notice it honestly

is the most obvious scum? or is this just TWTBAW

TWTBAW is one of the concepts in mafia I disagree with the most, on par with "you must survive to the end of the game to win". There is no such thing as too wolfy to be a wolf. Wolfy behavior is behavior that indicates that someone's alignment is evil. It is considered wolfy because it is more likely to be performed by scum than by town. Therefore someone who exhibits a great deal of it is more likely scum than town. The usual argument is that scum is more conscious about how they look, which is nonsense. If scum knew how scummy they were being they would never look anything but town.

[Alison]

JJJ is scum. He's played countless games with me and knows perfectly well that this is how my Day 1 generally goes. I don't tend to jump on a whole bunch of people with scumreads or add people to my "towncore". "Shortage of suspicion" from me should easily be identified as NAI, and the fact that he's trying to prod suspicion on me for it is solid proof that he's not on the level. He's generally trying too hard to do the Town JJJ Song & Dance and impress the newcomers, but I've played with him for years, and this is not town Jimmy. GTH exercise not even halfway into Day 1?? WTFmullet? What a dog and pony show, how many people hadn't even posted yet? GTH reads? Are you kidding me?

[VOTE: JJJ] aubergine and I don't really give a damn that I'll probably get lynched today for this. He's scum. Keep him around for the good times if you want.

yaaaaaas *claps*

also y'all kitsu named the three people i always see sus'd. naaaaah don't tr that slot yet

wisp is town

This post fits well with the "scum are freaking out about townies finding each other" theory

[Alison]

and I generally believe that having to fake orgasmic back and forths with a partner amps up the awkwardness

Honey, I can tell you some stories...

ORGANIC

I MEANT ORGANIC