Philosophers' Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Long Con]

This is not a good combination with somewhat scummy thread presence. You give a smattering of very early (meaning of dubious quality) reads and then mostly peace out until someone calls you on having done very little as if they are wrong? What's the thinking behind this?

Are Nanook's reads more dubious in quality than other reads put forth?

Maybe? They came really early so they genuinely could not have had much behind them. I mean they are probably head and shoulders better than an avatar read, and lord knows I make plenty of those...but he hasn't really provided any notable enhancements over time either.

Also, I appreciate the signature read earlier, thanks. I have had sigs turned off for quite some time now, to make mobile Mafia easier, and I haven't looked at my own sig in a while. I love that sig, that pic is me in the Hard Rock Café in Las Vegas, on my honeymoon, and I think it's pretty cool.

Is this by chance the shading against a town read that you mentioned that you do as a wolf?

I didn't think it was shading. I was thanking you for mentioning my sig because it reminded me of its existence and gave me good memories. I don't take the avatar/sig reads seriously because I don't think that you do either.

Just checking because I do have a strong town read on you (not the avatar and sig reads) that I am fielding some questions on and thought maybe you had some doubts about my sincerity. Or at least whether I had any grounds to be the one questioning Nanook's snap reads.

No, I haven't doubted your sincerity. I was speaking of dubious reads generally, though I think it was a bit of a snap post, because you weren't just saying you judge the quality of his reads, but also his behaviour following them. Perhaps other equally dubious reads were followed up in more satisfying ways, so Nanook's stood out.

[Hally]

Thanks Rabbit. I feel pretty good about letting Tutuu have all the people above me for today. Alison I have as solid town. Benson I have as solid town. Proto I feel good about.

Amy I may not be as good on as Tutuu is but I feel better about her than you. Maybe I related better to the D0 funk, or maybe it's just that I am less jaded because it was newer to me so I thought the pasta was hilarious.

I'll throw in here that Long Con is giving me low poster good poster vibes because one of his joke posts revealed that he was really reading a lot more than his posting seemed to indicate and I have had really good luck with that kind of low poster. My take is that a wolf that is reading that much feels compelled to say more, where maybe a townie who is reading on their phone just doesn't want to post or something. They have good townie interest without the wolf compulsion to prove their interest, if you know what I mean.

Below me on her list, other than you, I am probably willing to chop if someone is actively seeking a particular flavor. If you are that solid on Scirrus and can pass on him though I think Alison and I both have a decent point against him.

i wanna say you’re just town tbh. all your thoughts seem genuine to me up to now. only thing holding me back is my fear of your wolf game, but that’s probably not worth caring about on D1

[nutella]

Basically I'm saying you should take my three reads seriously, and almost everything else I say as at least partially tongue in cheek.

Well, since I agree solidly with two out of three we could say that I am "taking them seriously." We can even say that I believe shooting two out of three on having your snap reads turn out consensus agreeable is a pretty good record. I just don't see it as laurels meriting being rested on. Two out of three snap read villagers turning out good isn't even rand.

I believe it's 3/3 though, which is significantly above rand!

I'm gonna start using smileys now or trying to cause I forget sometimes that people who aren't used to me and nutella can't usually recognize when I'm not being entirely serious

I'll let you know when I have more reads, those are the three I have high confidence in.

my dude I can tell when you're jokey or whatever cause you usually are, my read of you is not due to not getting humor or anything it's more that it felt like you were playing it up more than usual

also @nutella in your reads list earlier you had nanook as “won’t chop today” which presumably meant you te him? but in your post that i just quoted you find him wolfy so i’m wondering like, why was he placed so high initially and what changed?

ignore this if you’ve addressed it already, i’m still living in the past

giving him a daypass. I think he's decently enough in his town meta to let him develop, just have vague tonal reservations

[nutella]

I'm gonna start using smileys now or trying to cause I forget sometimes that people who aren't used to me and nutella can't usually recognize when I'm not being entirely serious

I'm gonna start using smileys now, or trying to, cause I forget sometimes that people who aren't used to [me and nutella] can't usually recognize when I'm not being entirely serious

I'm gonna start using smileys now, or trying to, cause I forget sometimes that people who aren't used to me, and nutella can't usually recognize when I'm not being entirely serious

I don't totally know how to read this sentence.

People that can’t recognize my sarcasm:

[people who aren’t used to me] [nutella]

That clear things up?

i'm like actually insulted that you think i dont recognize your sarcasm

seriously dude me of all people

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Basically I'm saying you should take my three reads seriously, and almost everything else I say as at least partially tongue in cheek.

Well, since I agree solidly with two out of three we could say that I am "taking them seriously." We can even say that I believe shooting two out of three on having your snap reads turn out consensus agreeable is a pretty good record. I just don't see it as laurels meriting being rested on. Two out of three snap read villagers turning out good isn't even rand.

I believe it's 3/3 though, which is significantly above rand!

I'm gonna start using smileys now or trying to cause I forget sometimes that people who aren't used to me and nutella can't usually recognize when I'm not being entirely serious

I'll let you know when I have more reads, those are the three I have high confidence in.

my dude I can tell when you're jokey or whatever cause you usually are, my read of you is not due to not getting humor or anything it's more that it felt like you were playing it up more than usual

also @nutella in your reads list earlier you had nanook as “won’t chop today” which presumably meant you te him? but in your post that i just quoted you find him wolfy so i’m wondering like, why was he placed so high initially and what changed?

ignore this if you’ve addressed it already, i’m still living in the past

giving him a daypass. I think he's decently enough in his town meta to let him develop, just have vague tonal reservations

Dude you say “my read of you is not due to not getting humor or anything” and then immediately proceed to miss the humor

Bravo 7/7 ezclap



Ppe: yes you of all people, you regularly take me seriously when I’m not being serious!

[Hally]

Spoiler: show

I suppose it's time for me to exit the PoE. Let's talk about why I voted Tim.

When I placed my vote, I had no read on Tim. Maybe a light gut scumlean off tone, but I had the same thing early in Spec Chat Invitational and he wound up town, and I hard towncleared Tim off tone while speccing his champs game where he ended up being a wolf. I can't toneread Tim, and thus wouldn't push him without having an actual reason to do so.

HOWEVER, Tim is a person in this game who I've played with before, and one who I hadn't talked about basically at all before I made my post. This meant that leaving a naked vote on him was material enough for people to think that I might have something on the slot, and thus cause speculation.

Essentially, it was a reaction test; not necessarily aimed at Tim specifically, though I do appreciate having data coming from him as well, but for everyone else. I wanted to see how people would play around the vote, and see if I could read into it at all, especially given how I appear to be near the bottom of quite a few people's PoE's.

So let's take a peek here.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Timsup2Nothin] aubergine

4/60

What have I done this time?

Initial reaction from Tim is as NAI as expected. I've reaction imaged at votes on me as both alignments, I'm not reading into this.

Spoiler: show

i think amy has a lot of respect for tim as a mafia player which would explain her calling my townread on him bad (which i dont even see how can a read be bad unless its trolling. its either wrong or right imo) but yea, i think this respect is making her paranoid and thats why shes voting him. i legit tr amy btw, and i still tr tim. i think both town.

idk i just desired to armchair psychologize (how tf do u verb that? psychologize. psychology-size? psychoanalyze PSYCHOANALYZE thats the word). armchair psychoanalyze what is going on, so there u go

btw tim, pls trust me when i say we can add proto to the towncore. pls trust. im not 100% confident on my other town reads but mafia is a team game, and trusting your townreads to correctly townread other ppl is, like, amazing. please trust me proto town. we are like a packet. me and him. if u tr me u need to tr him. 2-for-1 deal

9/60

also i thoguht KZA had a non-maf/maf post with iaafr (when he said he's annoyed at him scumcasing himself). i think that was too brazen to post as maf/maf. let iaafr have a taste of his own pre-flip association medicine

tutuu assumes very quickly that this is a paranoia vote, and seems to have decent backing for doing so. In a vacuum I want to call this a villagery response for how quickly she thought of it; in a world where Tim flips v, I'd maybe consider the possibility of TMI? But really I think it's just a villagery response.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

I have a really hard time believing that you genuinely think being unmotivated in D0 is a scumtell. Also this whole "I'm going to tunnel Amy for the rest of D1" stuff looks like dropping cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else.

I guess tutuu and I found each other again. Feeling good about her this game.

i can expand a bit

amy enjoys villaging. this is my meta of amy. i consider her the type of player to naturally have lots of thoughts while reading a game, and even general exhaustion is unlikely to suppress those sorts of thoughts when she rolls villager. in that light, i think the volume + depth of thoughts she's shown so far has been lacking. i could easily be wrong, but i don't really have other strong leads rn. i still townread tim as of this moment; i don't agree with scirrus' objection to changing his mind on d0. amy's vote is essentially a nothing fearvote (or if it isn't, she's choosing not to spell out what it is so far), and while tutuu townreads that, i don't.

also the "cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else" will easily naturally be proven wrong over the course of this day regardless

won't defend the push or myself beyond this though.

This one also assumes that my read is baseless/a fearvote; a level 1 reading from my POV makes this look like a slightly wolfier response than tutuu's because it's being used to shade me, but in the context of rabbit's larger read on me it does make sense as a conclusion to draw.

Spoiler: show

i think amy has a lot of respect for tim as a mafia player which would explain her calling my townread on him bad (which i dont even see how can a read be bad unless its trolling. its either wrong or right imo) but yea, i think this respect is making her paranoid and thats why shes voting him. i legit tr amy btw, and i still tr tim. i think both town.

idk i just desired to armchair psychologize (how tf do u verb that? psychologize. psychology-size? psychoanalyze PSYCHOANALYZE thats the word). armchair psychoanalyze what is going on, so there u go

btw tim, pls trust me when i say we can add proto to the towncore. pls trust. im not 100% confident on my other town reads but mafia is a team game, and trusting your townreads to correctly townread other ppl is, like, amazing. please trust me proto town. we are like a packet. me and him. if u tr me u need to tr him. 2-for-1 deal

9/60

also i thoguht KZA had a non-maf/maf post with iaafr (when he said he's annoyed at him scumcasing himself). i think that was too brazen to post as maf/maf. let iaafr have a taste of his own pre-flip association medicine

A'ight. Since we can only kill one person at a time as far as I'm willing to think we can pretty much take in whoever you want, at least temporarily. I actually appreciate that because maybe we can get a similar perspective across to Amy. I'm not gonna fault her, because from a v!Amy perspective "nothing really clear to do here, maybe kill Tim just to be on the safe side" is a plausibly towny thought. I can't really do anything in particular to change her mind because "that's in his wolf range" will be applied to anything I might be able to do in the limited time of day one. However I can be a really useful towny as the game progresses so I am obviously gonna suggest not chopping me today.

Which brings us to the flip side of our little coin here. If I'm taking in whoever you want, at least temporarily, do I get the same trust? Even if it is someone you are thinking is obvious mafia? Because since we are only looking to kill one person in this particular bar fight I'm inclined that it not be Rabbit. His waffly on and offness about Amy I think has a good chance to settle off Amy, and if it doesn't he'll have really good reasons by the time we're actually chopping someone. And either way from there I think he works clear if he is clear.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then there's this.

Spoiler: show

didnt realize zack was a philosopher

i've always preferred the classics

anyways: hello and sorry and advance to those who don't know me. i help run mafia universe and i assure you it's not a position i attained through prowess at the game

there's like a 70% chance i'm legit just gonna fuck off until d1 glgl

why though?

There is only one serious philosophical problem, and that is why I don’t have a girlfriend.

F in the chat

Pretty fucked up that I went to the trouble to get into this game with tutuu just to have her roll scum.

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

WOW WTF

Town tutuu D0: is excited to play the game, tells all the people she likes to play with how much she wants to play with them, pre-emptively townreads people based on town and/or enthusiasm so she can start forming a towncore of people she trusts.

Scum tutuu D0: I'm TOWN everyone. I'm innocent TOWN. Have I mentioned I'm TOWN?

i don't hate this push tbh

im town btw

omg rabbit like same tho

i've always preferred the classics

anyways: hello and sorry and advance to those who don't know me. i help run mafia universe and i assure you it's not a position i attained through prowess at the game

there's like a 70% chance i'm legit just gonna fuck off until d1 glgl

As long as we have provided the answers Tony needs to advance the game to day one this seems like the legit best strat tbh.

how so? do you not believe in day 0 intros being readable?

They are on par with the early day one RVS and shiptoasting stage, which we will have plenty of time for day one.

I guess I was thinking more in terms of getting our answers in and moving on as opposed to stretching day zero looking for benefits...but you raise a valid point. If you want to stretch it out and have an extended meet and greet that can be fun and maybe productive. I'm in.

I don't really like that you backtracked from going "that sounds useless" right to ""it could be productive! I'm in" right when rabbit questioned you if i'm being honest

Spoiler: show

Pretty fucked up that I went to the trouble to get into this game with tutuu just to have her roll scum.

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

WOW WTF

Town tutuu D0: is excited to play the game, tells all the people she likes to play with how much she wants to play with them, pre-emptively townreads people based on town and/or enthusiasm so she can start forming a towncore of people she trusts.

Scum tutuu D0: I'm TOWN everyone. I'm innocent TOWN. Have I mentioned I'm TOWN?

well i wasnt like jumping up and down but i was lowkey pleasant sensation from seeing i rolled town and then i tried to talk to ppl but they were all friends in between themselves and they were talking to each other and i didnt know how to interject without being too awkward so i just said the stuff i said in case someone wanted to maybe start a conversation with me or something

lol you're cute. i hope you're not scum :0

but yeah idrk if i see it

As much as you say it, I do have to start wondering if you are being honest. I WILL be honest and say that I don't care what you "don't like." If you wanna throw shade, throw it. But don't bury it under some mamby-pamby 'I don't like it...' like you don't know what to do. If you think it's wolf indicative, rise up and say so.

For the record, having never played a day zero in my life I thought accepting Rabbit's greater experience in the matter was pretty civilized of me.

I think the inclination for Tim to default to assuming my vote is pure paranoia is also villagery? I think w!Tim would be at least a little wary that I've somehow got something real on him; someone said earlier in the thread that wolves tend to find flaws in their own posting fairly readily, and I think Tim would potentially be cognizant of that? The caveat here is that with how many times the possibility of a fearvote has been floated, it'd be easy for Tim to stick to the narrative of it being such, but I kinda think I buy this as a real thought.

Spoiler: show

getting more and more inclined towards nutella/tim

which i think is amyperspective aorn?

in that world scirrus is like lock town (and i really like this recent post)

This might be the first post that buys into my vote as potentially having real reasoning behind it. I'm... not sure how I feel about it. If this post were being used to shade me I'd say that accepting my vote as more real than it is would be a sign of agenda, but... it's not being used to shade me, it's being used to contextualize iaafr's own reads and evaluate his own perspective. Which... might be villagery? I think?

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

i want it known that he did something similar in his last non-mash towngame and kept it up for all of d1. this is NAI for him



and you should know this, because you were in that game. what's different about him here?

3/30

this is a bad read on tim, because tim is a player who's generally extremely cognizant of his own posting and able to deliberately fake stuff like this as a wolf quite well

that said i think it's kind of villagery to make this read, maybe?

i'm torn on tutuu in general because i think the way they kinda jumped us out of shitposting phase by taking a jokepost seriously is something i've seen both alignments do and i'm not entirely sure which one i'm looking at here. gth probably v off tone but far from sure

4/30

i haven't seen madoka magica but i'm already pocketed gg

i think your disliking the use of the word "tunnel" there is again somewhat NAI for iaafr; i think there may be something to your point on potential TMI on you/tutuu but i'm not willing to go anywhere near that until people start flipping, i think

idk i guess i just struggle to see anything iaafr's really done so far as being anything other than "iaafr being iaafr"

5/30

i guess honestly given that it's d0 and doesn't matter, and that the threadstate mostly reflects this, it's probably lightly villagery in a vacuum for anyone to be actually Playing The Game at this point

which i think looks best for alison because she's taking it the most seriously

6/30

yeah perhaps better phrasing would have been "bad way to read tim specifically"

side note ctrl+i not italicizing on this forum is yet another reason why phpBB needs to go away

7/30

it's a copypasta. i didn't write it

amy posts enclosed

these are all scum posts

first is scum post, meme copypasta that's not particularly original or fitting is >rand scum (based on experience with wiggles doing it once as scum, n=1 reads goat)

everything amy's posted so far is easily postable as scum. like scarily easily. i can't find a single thought by amy that makes me want to town her, and i don't think she'd be QUITE this underwhelming as town. think she's just low wim scum because she didn't particularly want to rand scum here and can't find the motivation to put her pride on the line by trying particularly hard. clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest). amy is just completely transparently joyless in this game, and i think that's because of her alignment.

might not be a particularly convincing case, but i feel pretty good about this scumread.

sorry if wrong, this is my d1 tunnel.

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine

townreads:

nutella, tutuu, protocultures

townleans:

tim, scirrus (guttest of gut), werewolfhunter, alison, long con

null/scumlean/flipfloppy:

nanook, radishes, benson, dyslexicon, coliniscool, kza, colonialbob

scumread:

amy



not giving deep reasons for any reads except the scumcase i wrote on amy for now. will start writing towncases sometime during the day, after more stuff has happened.

tempted to put benson in townleans, but... just a bit sketched by a few little things. similar thoughts with nanook/radishes. the rest of the people in that group don't seem to be playing to be read any townier than null regardless of actual alignment, so i feel like they're pretty understandable placements. also slightly sketched by alison, but i mildly mindmelded with the early tutuu sus (before i decided it was civ/civ) and thats enough to make me gth her town.

why is nutella so high up on the list? i'm not really sure where to place her, she just seems like...kinda there to me.

Why the town lean on long con?

all other reads seem aight to me. I would personally put Benson in town tho

I agree more with the suspicion of Scirrus’ entrance than with the suspicion of Amy, at this point in time.

Why do you find the suspicion on me more valid than the suspicion of Amy?

i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

So much for doing more reading than posting, but...

I added at least some explanation to all me early feelies except Nutella, and that was just because I ran out of free post time and then spaced it.

Nutella is just a straight feelie of "forum management" that is different from when I played with her before on MU. This is a not ideal source for any kind of feelies, but I just can't help but have it. To me Nutella is juggling her position and the game, not her position, the game, AND wolfing. That is extremely soft, but if nothing else it is something I need to keep track of for my own awareness of bias. In no way do I expect to be followed on this, and in fact people who have played with her here are encouraged to tell me I'm wrong if you think I am.

i'm kinda confused, what do you mean about her "position"? Like as a moderator of this forum? And how that would bleed into her town and wolf play? Or am I just misunderstanding lol

Yeah. Mod/admins playing on their own forum are biting off a chunk that can be hard to chew. In a situation like that randing wolf is like a gut punch, because wolfing is a LOT more intensive effort. Nutella seemed to be goin' along and gettin' along and I kinda took that too much at face value there at that time. But current ISO read is telling me I may have made a mistake there.

Amy progression in particular is really bad I think.

uh u wot m8?

in my experience like 80% of the players on the syndicate are moderators and admins, and like, it seems like a small site, do u think shes busy fighting off trolls all day or wot

I get it. I already said I made a mistake there. It happens.

Anyway, I think I'm coming round to a bit more kumbuya feeling here. Rabbit's town leans include you and it seems I've convinced you to not kill him today so I feel good about that. I've been ISO reading and have gone through everyone above me on your list without getting any burning desire to kill the people you want to let live today so that's good. And by all our separate paths it seems like we have arrived at least for the moment at Nutella.

Amy is paranoia voting me...at least I think since she hasn't said why. That's okay.

Scirrus is kind of a difference of opinions, and that's okay.

We have a surprising amount of agreement for as early as it really is (D0 is throwing me off some, but seriously we are only like five hours into D1 I think).

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I'm gonna call this one NAI to save myself some headache. Reading into things Tim says is difficult because he's competent at pushing narratives as both alignments. Going off what I said earlier about him, the "at least I think so" corollary could be a very light wolftell, but I think I probably don't draw any STRONG conclusions from Tim's overall reaction either way.


--------

So I'm kind of disappointed that I didn't get QUITE as much attention with my vote as I would have liked; was hoping to spark more robust discussion, since I clearly wasn't around to produce it myself.

I think in general it's probably >rand villager to notice the vote and not use it to shade me, which would lend v points to tutuu even independent of the fact that I think it was a villagery post in general. I think overall I land on the lightly villagery side of null for both Tim and iaafr; both of their reactions could go either way, but I think Tim showed a level of unconcernedness that belie a villagery perspective, whereas rabbit seemed to be legitimately evaluating his own reads based on his perception of mine.

Lemme look into the rest of thread happenings.

8/60

Actually, a quick note about rabbit.

I'm not 100% sure how good I am at reading rabbit. Last game I played with him (excluding Anni, which isn't a game) I townread him very early, but largely because I had a very strong PR read on him - one which turned out to be wrong. So I may just be shit at reading him.

That said, I was hoping that his seeming inability to get his volume under control would be an indicator that I'd be able to find him obvtown and move on with my life, but I haven't. I have Concerns.

In essence, I think his reads are stickier than he'd care to admit. I think v!rabbit maybe doesn't bother to explain in so much detail why he swapped from me to nutella to me in the span of 2 minutes. And I'm concerned about the fact that he apparently feels strong enough about my wolfiness that he's willing to start making preflip associatives about it.

I also know for a fact that rabbit hates D1 wallcases, because I made an (incorrect) one in said last game we played together and he didn't let me hear the end of it. It's entirely possible that this is just his way of getting payback, but it still concerns me.

I don't wanna go here today, though. Rabbit is a slot that gets easier and easier to read as the game goes on. We check in around D3 or D4, see if there are still Concerns, and then dunk his ass if the answer is yes. Otherwise he hard clears himself and we all move on with our lives.

==stronger v==
tutuu
Benson

==weaker v==
Tim
Proto
Nanook?

==weakest v==
iaafr

==null==
rest

==:fry:==
Scirrus

==can probably die==
Nutella

this is before any heavy-duty rereading. i may change my mind on Nutella but her posts about me itg have reminded me very strongly of her posting in anni - namely, cosigning another person's strong push without really adding anything of your own to it

actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

i town read amy hard off this series of posts. these are the first posts she’s made that really do it for me and they really do it

i see she’s my counterwagon atm. could someone talk to me about their suspicions here? idk what her wolf range is but i’m not getting wolfy feelings from anything here

[Hally]

oh wait im voting amy rn lol

[VOTE: nut] aubergine

hiiiiiiii

[TonyStarkPrime]

In case it wasn't clear, a vote for Scirrus will count as a vote for Hally today. Additionally, the intro has been updated with Hally's ISO.

[Hally]

Okay let’s do thoughts and stuff. Disclaimer: in a technical sense I’ve read everything, but whether I’ve retained much of it is an open question.


(Yes, yes, go on and scroll to your name first. You know you want to.)


Alison – their immediate barely-justified tunnel on a friend could be an easy way for a scum to kick off the game (albeit I agreed with it when I read the early pages), but their turnaround on that read felt natural. Apparently that’s a thing scum Alison is capable of, though. But overall she seems to be finding targets naturally so far.

Amy – I don’t really want to make a read because I am cognizant that this is my first game with her and she’s a red on MU and that has baggage. Like I know it doesn’t matter and yet it does lead to hesitation. On the surface I don’t find anything egregious but I think that was exactly iaafr’s case against her, that it was all fakeable, and yeah, it is. But maybe I’m jumping to conclusions too quickly because of rEpUtAtIoN. I think a stronger take is that I find her explanation about being exhausted from Anni genuine (NAI but genuine) and so I don’t think she puts in this much effort if she’s scum.

Bensluga – town by post count. Usually I can find a couple posts that I know never come from scum B and I haven’t found those posts yet, but it’s early days and his reads are flowing naturally like a river even as they change course. I'm realising as I type this I haven't seen his scum game in a long time unless I'm forgetting one, but he enjoys towning and he seems to be enjoying himself here.

Colin – had to iso to even remember his (few) posts. I’ve mis-read him before based on activity level, so will refrain from shouting ‘scum’ from the rooftops or anything. But he's heavy in the PoE for complete lack of content. (I spot a single post with game content – saying he finds the sus of Scirrus more valid than that of Amy.)

Colonialbob – null

Dizzy – null (sadface)

Rabbit – um…pass? I’ve never seen scum iaafr in action so I don’t know what to look for. When I played with him in Inception I found it easy to find him as town, and I almost feel he seems a bit more mimicky of himself here than organic. E.g. he bounces his reads around a lot when town, and here he…has…but not as much. But like, post capping probably is impacting that pretty heavily. So let’s call him town for now, but I’m less certain than I want to be.

Kaz – this is only his third game off of Canucks (where Benson and I know him from) and in the other two he sat back in D1 and mainly stuck to quips and one-line posts, and he’s doing that here. I felt pretty comfortable calling him town in those other games even when others didn’t because of meta. But he’s also maybe going through the motions a bit more in this game? Definitely in the PoE, and with him that’s worrying to me – I get why others would slot him there, but if both Benson and I are putting him there that’s not a good sign.

Long Con – he’s popping in seemingly at random to post unmemorable commentary. So…probably town. But he’s good at skating by so not locking that in. I've seen him as scum twice, iirc, and both times I had him high in my townreads.

Nanook – I think it was Nutella who suggested he was mimicking his ‘nanookness’ or something like that. That…could definitely be right. But I’ve never learned to tell the difference. I did scum with him recently and he was more involved in the early game (whilst still maintaining his classic laissez-faire attitude) whereas here he just doesn’t seem to care at all, so GTH town.

Nutella – I’m vibing with her a lot as I usually do, but I’ve still not seen her scum game and I’m worried I’m going to get suckered in one time. I thought I saw a difference in her in Pyre based on how she went after me, but then she was apparently town in that one (I’m still not sure I believe it) so I’ve gone from thinking I can townread her easily to being uncertain if I know her at all. I’m mainly writing this off the top of my head so I don’t remember exactly why she’s getting votes now – was it her sheeping other votes? Regardless, I’m going to need to properly iso her to form a solid read, but GTH town.

Proto – didn’t really like their entrance as previously discussed, but since then I’ve liked their game. Like, they’re just poking around a bit and throwing out reads they’re comfortable making and such. No sense of worry or pressure to do something.

Scirrus – already discussed my dislike of his thread entrance, and his catch-up was…uninspiring. The question is did it help him reach any conclusions. He basically townreads a few consensus townreads, lists a rather disparate trio of scumreads, and apparently everyone else, including a number of top posters, are null. I can’t say anything pings me per se, but neither do I see anything townie-looking that makes me want to change my read.

Tim – so, um, disclosure…I didn’t actually read his fabulous wolf game in G10. So I actually don’t know what I’m supposed to be looking for to stop myself getting fooled. He seems pretty chill so far, like he just wants to have some fun and hunt some scum.

Tutuu – I agree with others that she felt a bit off D0, but also that she feels more like the tutuu I remember from Pyre in D1 so far – vivacious, bouncy, just plain fun to read. I feel like tone is something she can probably fake (and may be doing so after getting heat on D0) but what I particularly like is that her reads generally match the thread’s but not 100% so, which feels like a townie getting the same feel as other townies but accounting for standard deviance. I maintain some hesitance on reading her town, but yeah, probably just town.

WH – putting aside the opening-post mixup, which is clearly a genuine mistake, I do feel she has been…reserved. But nothing has pinged me, and the confusion over the opening post mix-up didn't reveal any worry about being caught for the wrong reasons. Still a PoE slot by virtue of not being a town slot.



This turned out longer than I had anticipated.

i honestly don’t know how to read this post. the reads seem... fine i think? but also quite waffly. idk nothing is slapping me in the face saying town here

[Hally]

tl;dr

Probably just town
Alison
Benson
Proto
Tutuu

Hesitantly want to townlean
Amy
iaafr
Long Con
Nanook
Nutella
Tim

Null
Dizzy
Colonialbob

PoE
WH
Colin
Kaz
Scirrus

think you could be wolfing tbh

your poe is just the most lhf in the game. kinda meh tbh

can you explain the tr on nut more? in your reads list it was a lot of talking about last game and not a lot about this game. what is it about her this game that you like?

[nutella]

oh wait im voting amy rn lol

[VOTE: nut] aubergine

hiiiiiiii

hi just waiting for you to get to where i TR amy for the same posts you just did lol

[Hally]

MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

The position to say you're vibing with nute is very interesting, to say the least. If you were going to go with a stance like that I'd hope you would at least be aware of what myself and others are SRing her for. And I don't think it's because of "vote sheeping".

Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

Maybe I need to go further into what the others are thinking but my position on nutella is this:
- Noticeable lack of original thoughts/ideas that are from a villagery mindset. I've seen basically one so far. I expect a lot more.
- Following/sheeping the reads of others. I suppose this isn't *that* bad, because a wolf nutella probably knows to be careful here anyways.
- She's not really pushing in any direction either other than the ones that have already been established. But I realize I'm getting a little redundant.

Eh, it's not the worst. But I'll wait until it gets better before I take her out of lynch contention. If she's town, she'll likely get there.

What do you think of the wagon dynamic between Amy v Nute. That's what I wanted to explore today. I like the way those have developed, as in there's information there. I don't know what info, but info nonetheless.

i’m vibing with both these posts. radishes and nut are my two picks for wolves atm

[Hally]

Maybe I need to go further into what the others are thinking but my position on nutella is this:
- Noticeable lack of original thoughts/ideas that are from a villagery mindset. I've seen basically one so far. I expect a lot more.
- Following/sheeping the reads of others. I suppose this isn't *that* bad, because a wolf nutella probably knows to be careful here anyways.
- She's not really pushing in any direction either other than the ones that have already been established. But I realize I'm getting a little redundant.

Eh, it's not the worst. But I'll wait until it gets better before I take her out of lynch contention. If she's town, she'll likely get there.

What do you think of the wagon dynamic between Amy v Nute. That's what I wanted to explore today. I like the way those have developed, as in there's information there. I don't know what info, but info nonetheless.

This is all basically saying the same thing – she’s following, not leading. In my limited experience that’s not a scumtell for her (or, rather, I see her do that when she’s town). She’s a little less forceful than usual, e.g. I don’t recall a posts where she just says like ‘this is a wolf’ which I often see from her.

As I said in my readslist I’m waiting for the day I get fooled by her (she owes me one anyway, since I did that to her in, uh, I think it was Assassin’s Creed). But atm when I read her posts I nod in agreement and in general I think I’m pretty good at not being full-on pocketed by wolves, or at least I like to think so.

Re: Amy vs Nutella, I’m not sold on either one myself. Or do you mean specifically the wagonomics of it? Two of my stronger townreads are voting for Amy, but so is my top scumread. His was a very bussy vote though so that doesn’t sway me either way. The people on the Nutella wagon are varying degrees of ??? for me. All hesitant, uncertain townleans. In my experience that grouping contains wolves but I never find them on D1. Basically right now the wagon formation enforces my read that Nutella is probably town being nudged by at least one opportunistic wolf, but maybe Amy is someone I need to look at harder.

hmmmmmmm

i kinda wanna dissociate you and nut for this post. idk if you take this position if teamed

also why am i even trying to do associatives rn that’s dumb

[tutuu]

i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

you’re still my favorite

WTF WHEN DID HALLY GET IN THE GAME LOOOL hi hally!!!

[nutella]

I'm so ready for hally to catch up and join forces with me to bury radishes back into the ground where he belongs

[nutella]

[VOTE: master radishes] aubergine


would feel bad misyeeting him d1 yet again but.... he feels so different and calculated here


and dizzy is not even remotely off the hook

[Hally]

I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

Help I’m being M I S R E P R E S E N T E D

butterflyisthisamafiatell?.jpg

dude chill

yeah you've given reads. I guess more what I'm trying to say is your tone feels fabricated to me. I know that's not a productive thing to defend against but it's there in the back of my head. I said I'm daypassing you anyway, don't get your boxer briefs in a knot.

Actually, a quick note about rabbit.

I'm not 100% sure how good I am at reading rabbit. Last game I played with him (excluding Anni, which isn't a game) I townread him very early, but largely because I had a very strong PR read on him - one which turned out to be wrong. So I may just be shit at reading him.

That said, I was hoping that his seeming inability to get his volume under control would be an indicator that I'd be able to find him obvtown and move on with my life, but I haven't. I have Concerns.

In essence, I think his reads are stickier than he'd care to admit. I think v!rabbit maybe doesn't bother to explain in so much detail why he swapped from me to nutella to me in the span of 2 minutes. And I'm concerned about the fact that he apparently feels strong enough about my wolfiness that he's willing to start making preflip associatives about it.

I also know for a fact that rabbit hates D1 wallcases, because I made an (incorrect) one in said last game we played together and he didn't let me hear the end of it. It's entirely possible that this is just his way of getting payback, but it still concerns me.

I don't wanna go here today, though. Rabbit is a slot that gets easier and easier to read as the game goes on. We check in around D3 or D4, see if there are still Concerns, and then dunk his ass if the answer is yes. Otherwise he hard clears himself and we all move on with our lives.

good post. the long post about the tim reaction test thingy was p good too. amy can be v for now


inb4 rabbit calls this w/w

aahhh so again like i kinda agree nanooks tone feels somewhat fabricated tbh. even his reaction to you that i sorta wanted to tr kinda feels performative actually. idk if i get the sense of genuine annoyance as i have from him in the past

ugh idk because i feel like you’re also very lacking? your takes feel extremely sparse. like idr anything you’ve said other than your reads on rabbit, nanook and amy whereas usually i feel like you have snap takes on a ton of things by now as town? idk i’m reluctant though because i do mindmeld with the nanook take and also now your tr on amy but i’m still not feeling comfortable with you as town despite that

i think rn my biggest question marks are you, nanook and radishes and there’s like some sort of dynamic going on between the three of you that i think makes you not aligned with each other so probably like one of you is wolfing? idfk

[Hally]

actually nanook/radishes could be aligned

i’m thinking nanook/nut and radishes/nut probably not? so maybe nut is just town lol

or maybe i’m wrong about everything lololol

[tutuu]

hope you feel better soon tutuu

cuz if you dont im about to deathtunnel you based on your drop in energy, which i perceive as changing your alignment

lmfao ily

[Alison]

Hally you've called a couple of things "not W/W" and:

1) Like you've pointed out it's a little too early in the game to be doing associatives like that.

2) I don't actually understand why they aren't W/W. Like it isn't obvious to me why the interactions you point out aren't within the scum range of the players involved to fake.

Can you please elaborate a bit more on those thoughts?

linki: Yes, that dynamic you're alluding to between MR, nanook and nutella. What is it about it that makes you think they can't be associated together? I don't get the sense that the scum ranges of any of those three players are particularly narrow, so it has to be something specific and strong that makes you think this.

double linki: Also what is with you being so quick to do associative stuff?

[Hally]

Maybe I need to go further into what the others are thinking but my position on nutella is this:
- Noticeable lack of original thoughts/ideas that are from a villagery mindset. I've seen basically one so far. I expect a lot more.
- Following/sheeping the reads of others. I suppose this isn't *that* bad, because a wolf nutella probably knows to be careful here anyways.
- She's not really pushing in any direction either other than the ones that have already been established. But I realize I'm getting a little redundant.

Eh, it's not the worst. But I'll wait until it gets better before I take her out of lynch contention. If she's town, she'll likely get there.

What do you think of the wagon dynamic between Amy v Nute. That's what I wanted to explore today. I like the way those have developed, as in there's information there. I don't know what info, but info nonetheless.

This is all basically saying the same thing – she’s following, not leading. In my limited experience that’s not a scumtell for her (or, rather, I see her do that when she’s town). She’s a little less forceful than usual, e.g. I don’t recall a posts where she just says like ‘this is a wolf’ which I often see from her.

As I said in my readslist I’m waiting for the day I get fooled by her (she owes me one anyway, since I did that to her in, uh, I think it was Assassin’s Creed). But atm when I read her posts I nod in agreement and in general I think I’m pretty good at not being full-on pocketed by wolves, or at least I like to think so.

Re: Amy vs Nutella, I’m not sold on either one myself. Or do you mean specifically the wagonomics of it? Two of my stronger townreads are voting for Amy, but so is my top scumread. His was a very bussy vote though so that doesn’t sway me either way. The people on the Nutella wagon are varying degrees of ??? for me. All hesitant, uncertain townleans. In my experience that grouping contains wolves but I never find them on D1. Basically right now the wagon formation enforces my read that Nutella is probably town being nudged by at least one opportunistic wolf, but maybe Amy is someone I need to look at harder.

it was covid where you hard pocketed me and i swear to the god of vegetables if you're doing it again...

thanks for defending me though :P

So did a partial re-read of day 1.

Think I'm not so sus of tutuu any more. Shes probably town. Which also means Alison is more town.

I also now read Scirrus as towny.

Also can people stop reading me as town so much. I don't want to die in the night. Thank you.

Lol. I know this POV could be faked but it's how I feel as well so I want to call it towny.

---

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.


Where did everyone go?

i am afraid he could be TMIing/whiteknighting me yeah

and your take on the reads list being overly busy for this early is a good one. my very vague sense of radish's meta is that he can be a bit more go with the flow as town and not do a ton of work early on and it's why he's been d1ed a few times recently, while as scum he can go pretty deep by looking villagery through some effort and developed reads. this isn't black and white though, certainly in his champs game he did a lot of high effort solving, but then again of course that's champs. but by my rough paradigm of "I should read radish the opposite of how I think I should read him because I've literally always read him wrong" he feels like a potential wolf here.

ok yea let’s kill him

[VOTE: nut] aubergine

if radishes is wolfing nut is v

[Hally]

fuck i meant to vote radishes pretend that says radishes

[Hally]

Actually, I realize nutella has (and just did) follow up her Amy reads, so you can disregard that point in my previous post. I guess if anything, nute, I want to know what was your *initial* read on Amy when you voted? What specifically about her subsequent posts made you think town?

I never voted lol why do people keep saying that my vote for dizzy just now was my first vote!

but yes when I initially agreed with rabbit's case on amy, I thought that it made sense amy looked most generally wolfy out of the people who had participated much at that point. as she's posted more and especially with her longer posts about the tim stuff and about iaafr I think she's much more in her town meta. and I particularly mindmelded with her iaafr read.



other stuff from the remainder of page 10
-wwh seems pretty towny now, sort of a vague tone thing but the way she's trying to put in some independent work and the way she expressed her take on each tutuu quote, generally feels like her perspective is genuine.
-radish's case on scirrus made me feel worse about radish and better about scirrus.

congratulations you are now a tr

i’m seeing more depth of thought the last two posts and it doesn’t feel like it’s forced. also i’m mindmelding with a lot of it

[Hally]

A'ight, I'm jumping ship here.

Don't like the great wall of Radishes mostly because it is a day one wall case. Also, can't say I have great confidence in Radishes intentions generally. In other words, Radishes you tend your end of this boat and I'll tend mine.

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

I do lean @Alison pretty strong town, and her sense on Scirrus seemed to support my own pretty well.

this post kinda confusing me. you don’t like radishes wallcase on sc and don’t trust him but you’re sheeping him anyway? or...? idgi

[Hally]

Lol, Scirrus? What did you do? Did you rand scum or are you just so incredibly scummy again? =p

Expect me to 100 % slank this game. Not sorry at all. But you all seem cool though - everyone I know and don't know quite as well. ^^

Not going to catch up before tomorrow. Don't know when day ends. Please keep posting to a minimum. Thank you.

Scirrus has 16 posts, lol, so yeah, probably maifa. Speed yeet!

i unironically soulread dizzy town off these posts. not even kidding. be town and town read me so we can solve this game pls and thx

[Alison]

I'm so confused by these associatives. Why is nut always villager if MR is wolf? Do you think she never busses? Like please, justify your posts!

[Hally]

Benson:

Spoiler: show

i just reread the entire thread and wow im actually pretty scummy wonder how many people are scumreading me

actually i disagree? i thought u were kinda towny

why did u scumread yourself? i wanna argue your read on yourself

WAIT

OK, this might be wolfy.

I'm interested. Why is it wolfy?

I don't know if wanting to disagree and saying he's been towny feels natural. Like what was even towny anyways? Idk, that's obviously not a compelling argument.
But it's always easier for wolves to just pop-in to express disagreement in places where they *know* they are correct. You know?

22/30

re: alison yes i understand that but i just thought it didnt make much sense to me to pre-emptively reveal your thoughts to someone you're trying to interrogate. id peronsally keep that to myself but i guess thats ujst me and i have no reason to believe this is scummy for u

re: benson i thought he was just free-flowy and trying to start conversations and stuff like that. he made the first post that broke the tone of the game from chit-chat to a serious post when he asked tims2upnothing about something that i forgot what was it but i remember thinking that i didnt think iaafr was interested the answer but he just asked to get the ball rolling at least thats the impressino i got but i didnt imemdiately say itt that i find it towny cuz i wasnt that confident but now i feel kinda cornered to say this?

edit linki (alisons's last post) i kinda agree that i also feel a bit sketched out. he could be town and that could just be humor but idk

I mean, you were confident enough to stop iaarf to tell him you disagreed and thought he was towny.
I won't push this point any further because it is very minor, but I personally don't think that felt like a genuine read.

29/30

tr on proto, i think he believes the stuff he believes. (u can call this sort of a meta read). if ur unsatisfied with this explanation u can ask me for further stuff to say

i have 2 choices for alison. 1) tr her for her enthusiasm to try to catch me scum or 2) scumread her if i put the bar a little higher and expect her to not make overly wrong reads on me. and i think her second post saying "town tutuu does X and scum tutuu does Y" was silly considering the game was like 30-40 posts in none of my friends had even posted by that point AND also the fact that she has never seen me play mafia so idk how could she say with confidence what would maf tutuu do. Despite her being wrong on both of these stuff gth i still wanna call her town. perhaps part of ot could be rock-paper-scissors fallacy (i just invented this fallacy). basically rock paper scissors is down to luck, but also not. so in this context i think that if alison rolled mafia against me this game and she saw that i was town, i think her approach wouldnt be to start by making an illogical push on me (this is the rock paper scissors). so she can b lean town

i also slightly wanna tr nanook primarily cuz he called me town and i liked it.

i read ur stuff about tim, amy, and respectfully i will disagree, ive never played with him b4 but i still think i saw a town posting town stuff, so

Reads:
tutuu
proto

tim
alison

nanook

rest

I wanted to question why you felt you absolutet needed to resolve Alison into a TR or SR, but the deliberation you go through in this post feels really towny.


On a different note: nute's flip flopping is nutty.

Well my break was short lived.

I needed to return to tell you all that tutuu is now added to the town whale pod. The thought progression from post to post and within each post is just so villagery, even despite the weirdness of the more recent stuff.
Alison's application to the pod is pending.

I might be getting hard pocketed but let's ignore that for now.

disregard everything i said. an AWP cant kill the mafia fast enough. iaafr and nutella are both mafia. give me 10 seconds and i will find the other 2

4/60

AWP?

But iaafr and nutella being w/w is the spice I needed to marinate this D1. I have no opinion on the read itself but I like it.

i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

Lmao. Epic.

Not that I think any of this is wolfy, but your tone has changed SO much from the player at the beginning of the game. What happened? Was it just that you became more comfortable in the game and in your reads that now you want to push the areas you think are promising?

Progression on tutuu - goes from light sus to town firm. Definitely could be genuine but... well let's keep going.

Spoiler: show

I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

Normally, absolutely. But with iaafr I honestly don't know. He's rather unconventional, but I have only played with him once where he was town.

Actually, I want to talk about proto's entrance because I'm surprised no one else is talking about that (unless I missed it). I'm talking specially about the self-conscious meta talk as the first thing they wrote.
Because on the surface it gives me super wolfy vibes, even if it was probably written by a villager *that just plays like that*. Anyone else put off by that or have a take on this?

I haven't started playing serious yet, but if I did it would be something I'd bring up too. Self-aware and some reads seem forced.

Scirrus' entrance also poor. Generic roleplay that attempts to disguise an uncomfortable thread entrance.

But I'm not playing serious yet, so I'll just have to wait to mention these thoughts until I am.

27

Well, I think this can be true; but I think you have to look at the type of player first. Because a player that is frequently scum read for doing ostensibly wolfy things as a villager will probably become over self-conscious in general. Because they obviously are worried about getting miselimed.
And I gather that this is the case, or might be. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Stop trying to not be serious while being serious imo.

I bet rabbit has 300 tabs open with the posts he's gonna make as soon as he's permitted.

Hi Dyslexicon! And anyone else that I haven't said anything to.

------

I hate slips but did WH slip?

I didn't see a greeting post from you before that, are you sure you don't mean in the signup thread? lol

Yes, I'm pretty certain I did one

Maybe, I accidentally posted in wrong thread. Sorry about that. I was pretty certain that I had

Posted a greeting in the woofer chat instead and then thought you did that here as well?
How would you forget about that?

Idk, it's a reach for sure. Maybe the linki thing came up and she thought the post went through.

Ugh, I guess my next post may be my last for a while.

29

lol
I was just about to say I was concerned with Amy so far. Noticeable lack of engagement.

I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I got towny feelies for you, Tutuu, Alison, Rabbit, and Nutella...mostly null on the rest of the people who posted...I'm trying to decide if what I said about Radishes is true. That was a really "towny mindset" post if he got there unconsciously...and I don't really know Radishes well enough to claim it was in his wolf range to fake like I said.

Unless you're reading that post deeper than I am, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard for him to fake as wolf. He's a good wolf and can definitely fake a mindset like that.
That said, he generally gives me a good feeling so far.

Okay, so didn't overestimate the Master Radishes. Will keep in mind.

Feelies on Alison and Tutuu based on their initial clash being too attention grabby to be w/w, and Tutuu's reaction being too calm to be a wolf randomly tunneled by a villager friend.

Any thoughts here?

I think scum theater is in play, though unlikely. I agree with the latter assessment and overall I come out of D0 with a town lean on tutuu as well.

Regarding Amy's defense, I think it mostly doesn't change anything for me. I initially had a strong suspicious that it all felt wolfy and overly crafted and defensive, but I couldn't really justify that in words. So I don't have much else to say, other than rabbit's read sound plausible: unmotivated wolf lacked motivation to project town. I agree that Amy is probably the player that can easily fake whatever is needed to fake in the early game - and that's why I'm not pushing this much harder - but the motivation thing is a genuine tell. Like I'd 100% be less amped to be in the thread and post if I wasn't town right now. We'll see how the round unfolded. I do like the Amy is confident she'll project town before long.


Scirrus...I don't know what to say. I want to call the catch up posts wolfy but shouldn't because that probably stems from the fact that I don't particularly enjoy reading posts like that (when the quotes are sporadic, don't follow a central theme, and the responses aren't anything substantial. But I can't blame someone for not always being around to interact in real-time. Especially in this format.

4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

holy fuck is it 1:40

I need to go the fuck to bed

Sorry for the people who hate my posting style. I work late and I'm tired a lot and i'm slow at catching up, it's just the reality for me these days

I feel like voting MR because I disliked his "not serious" excuse while shading me and proto and his push on WH seemed opportunistic too

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I think people don't like your posting style because there is little coherency in the individual posts, making it difficult to read. Before you take that as an insult let me explain: obviously what you're saying on its own is coherently; but when you quote multiple unrelated posts from yesterday and comment on each one separately it becomes hard to follow. Like, I'm sure it's a useful exercise for yourself, but I personally can't get much out of those posts, which leads to that frustration. Sorry if that's too harsh. You can definitely keep doing your thing I don't think I'll be able to really read you properly until you put those scattered thoughts into one place and one conclusion. I mean, unless your goal is to hide behind those catch-up posts.

Actually I don't mind the wagons on Amy/Nutella either tbh.

Maybe it would be more productive to build these two up?

[VOTE: AMY] aubergine

Generally, I would find this towny. But when you say you're gonna do it, it kinda takes away.

Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.

People that have played with Radishes before, what do you think of him so far?

I have the most experience with MR out of anyone here. I can tell you that you are justified in being suspicious right now.

Boy this is a lot of "hmm suspicious but not that suspicious idk" or "townie but also could be bad idk".

Spoiler: show

Guys I just realised our host needs to start his semifinal game in like four days.

Let's go for the sweep so he won't be distracted.

I played in a game that was hosted by a champs participant during their qualifying match. They did fine and directly advanced. I have every confidence that TSP can handle this.

Besides, for wolves even a sweep takes many days and you my dear root vegetable are far from a lock town at this point.

I like the insertion of that subtle assumption into the conversation though, even if I had to reject it. Points for effort.

28

This post seems kinda serious compared to what it's responding to. Hmm.



Mafia philosophical question: is intuition or rationality more important to you when forming reads? Or is that a bad dichotomy.

God, I hope we get to the next phase and I can post tonight.

It may be far less serious than it appears.

Or it may be highly nuanced. Perhaps...

It expresses support for and confidence in the host, possibly attempting to pocket him for reasons unknown.
It fires a warning shot across the bow for Master Radishes implying that his posts will be assessed with more than just a casual level of scrutiny.
It serves to warn other players that subtle assumptions made about innocuous posts can be used to influence their subsequent reads, and that a highly evolved wolf such as Master Radishes would be if he randed wolf may use such tactics.
It also serves as fair warning that if I had randed wolf I also am a wolf of that nature so should be handled carefully.
It produces the wifom that if I HAD randed wolf I would not want townies to start thinking on such subtle levels so I would have just let it pass, so it effectively town tells me.

Or it could have just been the setup line for a joke about common root vegetables and Master Radishes. I leave it to you to determine for yourself whether to treat me as a highly nuanced player looking five layers deep into every post made, or to treat me as a happy go lucky jokester giving a day zero exactly the minimal weight that it probably deserves.

Damn. I enjoyed my time trying to figure this post out :fry:
But I think you will be handled carefully, even if you are joking.

I have decided to go back to just posting things that are funny since apparently no one cared about what I thought.

I care, Tim. I care.

tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Impressively accurate soul read on me, tbh.

I know I wasn't very clear, but I'm not actually suspicious of proto. I just thought their entrance was something people would consider "classically wolfy" (like MR did) on the surface, despite that not necessarily being the case. I know some players have reason to act overly self-conscious as town as well. I'm glad your meta on them supports that.

Eh it's a reach because we don't have private threads like on MU, it's usually only on discord, so I don't think she'd confuse it. unless maybe replying to the host pm? More likely she's talking about the signup thread.

Ah gotcha. I didn't see anything in the signup thread that would makes sense as a greeting for the game, however.
I'm really sorry if this is getting angleshooty.



Some random reads before I have to leave:

Alison - Seems comfortable being in the driver's seat right now. I have no meta on her and she self-admittedly "likes to powerwolf", but her comfort level appears villagery. Her reads are good and the progression looks genuine at least.

Nutella - Kind of comes across like she's sheeping reads/ideas and then not following through or doing much about it. I know that's a harsh oversimplification but this is the abstraction I've made from reading her posts. Need more original takes.

Kza - Admittedly, I didn't notice the epicness of his "accuracy" joke earlier, haha. But seriously, I would think that he'd be posting more actual opinions or takes or anything if he's town here. If just seems like he doesn't know what to post or how to insert himself in any of the conversations.

Well this is it. Bye bye for now.

Spoiler: show

clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest).

i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

Legit lold at the whale avatar thing. Names are forgettable but beluga whales are forever.

Spoiler: show

I don't know if you saw, but I've been lightly sussing nute so far. I've towned with her once before and I feel like I found her pretty quickly because she projected well with how villagery her stream-of-conscious posting came across. The constraints of this game are certainly different but I'm not seeing those towny thoughts. Like she's mainly just agreed or disagreed with things that others are saying. But maybe it was D0 and she didn't care that much?

I think I'll force myself to break for the night so I don't waste too many posts before the round has really started.

Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

@Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

Some actual leans here, mostly unqualified. Case on Amy and reasons to be sus of KZA and Radishes. This is hunting. But then there's the nutella thing, and... well here:

Spoiler: show

Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

@Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

So some light sus on nutella earlier, but really seems to jump back and forth. Looking for reasons to townread nutella? The Amy bit in the last post also doesn't really make sense - Benson just laid out a case for why Amy would be sus, but then now nutella is pushing for her miselim? Hmm.

Scumlean.

i don’t really get this read or what nut has to do with it. what is your read on her and how does that factor into your read on benson? it seems like you’re kinda tmi-ing nut town here by saying benson is pushing a mislim on nut even though you’ve yet to state a tr on nut

also i find it pingy that you’re sitting back doing iso’s on D1 instead of actually interacting itt

think you could be wolfing

[Timsup2nothin]

A'ight, I'm jumping ship here.

Don't like the great wall of Radishes mostly because it is a day one wall case. Also, can't say I have great confidence in Radishes intentions generally. In other words, Radishes you tend your end of this boat and I'll tend mine.

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

I do lean @Alison pretty strong town, and her sense on Scirrus seemed to support my own pretty well.

this post kinda confusing me. you don’t like radishes wallcase on sc and don’t trust him but you’re sheeping him anyway? or...? idgi

I was actually kinda annoyed at being on the name wagon with Radishes because there was a lot I didn't like about his casing and his overall play this game...but...

Alison and I had previously come to a kind of agreement against Scirrus of our own and that was my preferred landing spot when the Nutella wagon blew out from under me (kinda went through the same process you did, it just took longer because it was real time happening. Now I have the classic problem...you are doing great work and seem towny, plus being a potentially very valuable townie that might well crack the game...but Scirrus really butchered that slot IMO.

I've actually been looking for a place to move my vote and just pass your slot for the day, but haven't reached a conclusion yet on where to go.

[Alison]

A'ight, I'm jumping ship here.

Don't like the great wall of Radishes mostly because it is a day one wall case. Also, can't say I have great confidence in Radishes intentions generally. In other words, Radishes you tend your end of this boat and I'll tend mine.

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

I do lean @Alison pretty strong town, and her sense on Scirrus seemed to support my own pretty well.

this post kinda confusing me. you don’t like radishes wallcase on sc and don’t trust him but you’re sheeping him anyway? or...? idgi

I was actually kinda annoyed at being on the name wagon with Radishes because there was a lot I didn't like about his casing and his overall play this game...but...

Alison and I had previously come to a kind of agreement against Scirrus of our own and that was my preferred landing spot when the Nutella wagon blew out from under me (kinda went through the same process you did, it just took longer because it was real time happening. Now I have the classic problem...you are doing great work and seem towny, plus being a potentially very valuable townie that might well crack the game...but Scirrus really butchered that slot IMO.

I've actually been looking for a place to move my vote and just pass your slot for the day, but haven't reached a conclusion yet on where to go.

To be honest I don't think anything Hally has done has redeemed the slot for me and I'm slightly confused why people find her so town. Which of her posts did you like?

[tutuu]

im sorry for misreading u at the start [mention]iaafr[/mention]

i still low power so ill just sheep one of my townreads, perhaps alison on colonialbob. jsyk i might throw my vote around repeatedly without saying itt to conserve posts but yeah ill just try to support my townreads in their endeavours. its like normally i try to be Reinhardt and lead the charge but now im gonna be Mercy. or no, i wanna be Winston. fuck now its stuck in my head

[nutella]

single double
nutella
iaafr
hally
tutuu
coliniscool
nanook

at least four vowels
coliniscool
colonialbob
dyslexicon
master radishes
nanook(thegreatandfearsome)
protocultures
timsup2nothin
werewolfhunter

dirty normies
alison
amy
benson
kza
long con


[mention]iaafr[/mention] do ur magic

[Hally]

Tim, convince me not to chop Amy.

"Benluga" sounds awful btw, but I'll permit it.


@KZA, talk to me. I'll stop with the aggressive accusations against your activity (which probably are unfair). How are you? What do you think of this game right now?

Do you really think I need to?

When EoD is staring you in the face you are going to look at potentially a really great villager, you are going to look at the flimsy case against her, you are going to look at the downside risk if you are wrong shooting for deep wolf first, and you are going to look for a safer option. And even if you don't probably everyone else on that wagon with you is.

I'm as scared of a deep wolf as anyone, but I'm a realist. There's about a 75% chance off the rand that Amy is a very very useful villager. We aren't chopping that without a lock case, and there is not enough info with no flips yet for a case to really be locked. We can talk about it, we can wagon about it, we can wonder about it...but we are not the village that day one chops a top notch villager on a weak case hoping we found a deep wolf instead of a high value villager and you probably know that if you think about it.

Someone else said Benluga Whale first and I thought it was cute, but I will stop...we'll just go with Benson Whale?

this is a very weird post. gives me w/v vibes with amy, like you know she’s a villager. idk it’s quite performative imo

[Timsup2nothin]

A'ight, I'm jumping ship here.

Don't like the great wall of Radishes mostly because it is a day one wall case. Also, can't say I have great confidence in Radishes intentions generally. In other words, Radishes you tend your end of this boat and I'll tend mine.

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

I do lean @Alison pretty strong town, and her sense on Scirrus seemed to support my own pretty well.

this post kinda confusing me. you don’t like radishes wallcase on sc and don’t trust him but you’re sheeping him anyway? or...? idgi

I was actually kinda annoyed at being on the name wagon with Radishes because there was a lot I didn't like about his casing and his overall play this game...but...

Alison and I had previously come to a kind of agreement against Scirrus of our own and that was my preferred landing spot when the Nutella wagon blew out from under me (kinda went through the same process you did, it just took longer because it was real time happening. Now I have the classic problem...you are doing great work and seem towny, plus being a potentially very valuable townie that might well crack the game...but Scirrus really butchered that slot IMO.

I've actually been looking for a place to move my vote and just pass your slot for the day, but haven't reached a conclusion yet on where to go.

To be honest I don't think anything Hally has done has redeemed the slot for me and I'm slightly confused why people find her so town. Which of her posts did you like?

Her catch up path from Amy to Nutella to Nanook tracked pretty much exactly with my path in real time. That implies to me that she read all that with a towny mindset because I conveniently know that I read all that with a towny mindset. Since you don't have hard evidence that I have a towny mindset this argument is less convincing to you than it is to me.

I'm also factoring in that Rabbit never hard defended Scirrus, but he did disagree with our read there.

[Hally]

Tim, why is LC towncore?

Because he reads a whole lot more than he talks. If you look at his posts he makes references to things that show he not only has read the thread but he's either got top notch memory or he is keeping notes. If he were wolfing he wouldn't be just casual dropping occasional posts he'd be posting more in line with the amount that he is reading. I recognize the type and I believe if he has a couple days he'll provide value...and that he isn't a wolf. His style is just way off from yours or mine.

What are you reading this based off - meta on him, or something?

Not meta since I don't know him from Adam. It's typecasting exactly like I said. Wolves that are as aggressively keeping up with the thread as he is find something to post about...regularly. If he wasn't keeping up maybe he is a pop in wolf, but he is keeping up. That aggressive reading of the thread means he will notice things. That willingness to just low post along means he not only isn't feeling wolf pressure he isn't being pressured by the other wolves.

He's town, and he'll be useful town, trust me on that one...for three days.

My town core is only good for three days because I am making myself the voice of town so the wolves won't let me live any longer than that if they let me live that long. So my town core has about three days to produce pelts or the town probably will and most likely should turn on them...you.

this read doesnt feel fabricated though i think? meh you can stay a town lean but i’m watching you

[nutella]

i'm pretty comfortable just townlocking both tim and hally for mindmelding on the progression

[Hally]

wait till you find out i was the only one townreading your slot in the entire game lmao

lol i wonder why ppl don’t see that and realize i’m a mislim but that’s not really up to me

[tutuu]

wtf nut how r u scumreading alison :OOO

well anyway sorry if ur town nut and ive been tunneling u. idk why i decided to play like that im never good at getting scumreads i just wanted to mess around honestly. should just stick to trying to make townreads thats my strength

(sheeping alison on hally atm btw)

[nutella]

alright heres basically where im at now

lock town
hally
tim
tutuu

town with reservations, roughly ordered
benson
amy
lc
proto
dizzy (trusting hally lol)
wwh
nanook
iaafr

shh don't tell her but trending down
alison

meh/lean scum
colin
cbob
kza
radish

[nutella]

wtf nut how r u scumreading alison :OOO

well anyway sorry if ur town nut and ive been tunneling u. idk why i decided to play like that im never good at getting scumreads i just wanted to mess around honestly. should just stick to trying to make townreads thats my strength

(sheeping alison on hally atm btw)

wtf howd you post this before i posted my list

(if it's based on the name spelling list thats just a joke/dumb iaafr meme lmao)

[Hally]

I get the sense Nanook is always around but only chooses to post when someone has said something negative about him.

This is wolf lurkiness and vastly different than my read on LC. LC posts when he posts without regard to whether he "needs" to or not, and his posts refer back to context deep in the thread. It isn't this "snap to action OMGUS" on things that are just happening at the moment.

Hally is about one good post away from me switching my vote here.

I agree.

At the same time, Nanook is so blatantly lurking and not caring that I question why he'd deploy this strategy as a wolf. Unless this is just something he always does and he thinks he can get away with it?

nanook definitely did a lot more earlier on last game than he has here. he was town cored pretty quickly and became a leading voice/the n1 kill. here he’s honestly kind of a nonentity despite his claims that he’s doing stuff. he’s hardly done anything imo. but idk if this is a good way to read him because i think he’s a competent wolf and it’s not like he can’t post. so maybe he just doesn’t feel he has to, which ig is not AI really but still meh. i’m not town reading him

[Hally]

Okay, just read through the Hally catchup. I don't see the shining town spark in her like I usually do when she's town. Hallyrus is probably just wolf. Sorry Hally.

Also nanook, agreeing with someone's reads doesn't mean you have to townread them. Like you can think it's TMI. Or you can agree with the reads but think the way they got there is made up.

I live in my own world and you're no longer invited

Three town (IAAFR tutuu radishes) down, too many more to go

wow ok so you are wolfing

seriously nanook, there is no way you have a town read on radishes for what he posted up to here

just... no

The Captain stuff was townie idk what to tell you

You literally just saw me townreading people this fast, now you’re scumreading me for...townreading people too fast. Wut.

i dont really think it was towny but ok

it’s also just the vibe of your posts seems fake to me. but i’ve only seen like two of them so that may change. tbdddd

just finished page 4

tutuu seems like obvious town!tutuu to me. she’s just overflowing with towniness in the same way as space invaders

iaafr idk yet even though he posted a fair bit. same with tim

benson i wanna say is town. alison i also wanna say is town even though she is a scary wolf. she seems really towny to me so far though

nanook is actually giving me really wolfy vibes off his first two posts

that’s all that sticks out atm

Omg you agree with 2/3 of my reads then scumread what are you even doing rn

no? i agree with your tutuu read so far, that’s all! but you don’t get points for that because tutuu is so obvious

back to reading

Tbf you said this in Jack too then we towncored anyways so maybe there's still hope

I get the sense Nanook is always around but only chooses to post when someone has said something negative about him.

Not true! I also respond to positive things said about me.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can you explain why you TR radish?

Yes I thought his captain interaction with me was townie. I don't think scumRadishes is that uh...idk the right word, blatant I guess? It's admittedly not as strong as my Rabbit and Tutuu reads.

nanook, who are the wolves?

[Timsup2nothin]

Tim, convince me not to chop Amy.

"Benluga" sounds awful btw, but I'll permit it.


@KZA, talk to me. I'll stop with the aggressive accusations against your activity (which probably are unfair). How are you? What do you think of this game right now?

Do you really think I need to?

When EoD is staring you in the face you are going to look at potentially a really great villager, you are going to look at the flimsy case against her, you are going to look at the downside risk if you are wrong shooting for deep wolf first, and you are going to look for a safer option. And even if you don't probably everyone else on that wagon with you is.

I'm as scared of a deep wolf as anyone, but I'm a realist. There's about a 75% chance off the rand that Amy is a very very useful villager. We aren't chopping that without a lock case, and there is not enough info with no flips yet for a case to really be locked. We can talk about it, we can wagon about it, we can wonder about it...but we are not the village that day one chops a top notch villager on a weak case hoping we found a deep wolf instead of a high value villager and you probably know that if you think about it.

Someone else said Benluga Whale first and I thought it was cute, but I will stop...we'll just go with Benson Whale?

this is a very weird post. gives me w/v vibes with amy, like you know she’s a villager. idk it’s quite performative imo

Do you think it is realistic to think Amy gets day one chopped on the strength of the case against her?

I don't know shit about whether she is a villager or not, but I think day one chopping her based on the existing case is never going to happen.

Much like I think that day one chopping you based on the case against Scirrus isn't going to happen even though I think it was actually a better case. I don't KNOW that you aren't a wolf, but the possibility you are a villager is too great to waste you on a day one chop just to see how the votes shift around in the process.

By the way, I hate that word; performative. All my posts are performative. I'm a writer. Performing at this keyboard is just what I do. It's NAI.

<---deleted rant about what IS AI for me here because you'd just call it wifom--->

[tutuu]

wtf nut how r u scumreading alison :OOO

well anyway sorry if ur town nut and ive been tunneling u. idk why i decided to play like that im never good at getting scumreads i just wanted to mess around honestly. should just stick to trying to make townreads thats my strength

(sheeping alison on hally atm btw)

wtf howd you post this before i posted my list

(if it's based on the name spelling list thats just a joke/dumb iaafr meme lmao)

i already mindread you that u were gonna scumread alison. u think i cant? dont underestimate my power. if u ever commit the sin of randing scum when i rand town you better surrender or i will attack you swiftly and without hesitation. you think you can lie and manipulate your way to victory? think again. no lie and no manipulation can put a dent in my armor. no AtE can make me wince twice as i mercilessly strongarm your yeet, my emotions being in full control. my arsenal of weaponry is vast and furious. if you want a tip on how u can fool me if ur mafia, here are 3 steps u can take to beat me: step 1) buy a Bible. step 2) Lay in bed. step 3) Pray to fucking God cuz its never happening, kid.

[Hally]

Basically I'm saying you should take my three reads seriously, and almost everything else I say as at least partially tongue in cheek.

i hate to like... offend you or anything but the fact that you still only have three reads and that they’re the same exact reads you had on like page 4 is like... not great

your reads haven’t developed at all since then? any wolf reads? any more tr’s? like... what’s going on with you. your posts lately are all just getting annoyed at ppl sussing you but you’re not solving really so idk what to tell you

[nutella]

wtf nut how r u scumreading alison :OOO

well anyway sorry if ur town nut and ive been tunneling u. idk why i decided to play like that im never good at getting scumreads i just wanted to mess around honestly. should just stick to trying to make townreads thats my strength

(sheeping alison on hally atm btw)

wtf howd you post this before i posted my list

(if it's based on the name spelling list thats just a joke/dumb iaafr meme lmao)

i already mindread you that u were gonna scumread alison. u think i cant? dont underestimate my power. if u ever commit the sin of randing scum when i rand town you better surrender or i will attack you swiftly and without hesitation. you think you can lie and manipulate your way to victory? think again. no lie and no manipulation can put a dent in my armor. no AtE can make me wince twice as i mercilessly strongarm your yeet, my emotions being in full control. my arsenal of weaponry is vast and furious. if you want a tip on how u can fool me if ur mafia, here are 3 steps u can take to beat me: step 1) buy a Bible. step 2) Lay in bed. step 3) Pray to fucking God cuz its never happening, kid.

this is a great pasta lmao



ok seriously gonna stop posting tonight, have 24 left before the final hour

[tutuu]

i just wrote it myself omg thanks

ur great too

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I get the sense Nanook is always around but only chooses to post when someone has said something negative about him.

This is wolf lurkiness and vastly different than my read on LC. LC posts when he posts without regard to whether he "needs" to or not, and his posts refer back to context deep in the thread. It isn't this "snap to action OMGUS" on things that are just happening at the moment.

Hally is about one good post away from me switching my vote here.

I agree.

At the same time, Nanook is so blatantly lurking and not caring that I question why he'd deploy this strategy as a wolf. Unless this is just something he always does and he thinks he can get away with it?

nanook definitely did a lot more earlier on last game than he has here. he was town cored pretty quickly and became a leading voice/the n1 kill. here he’s honestly kind of a nonentity despite his claims that he’s doing stuff. he’s hardly done anything imo. but idk if this is a good way to read him because i think he’s a competent wolf and it’s not like he can’t post. so maybe he just doesn’t feel he has to, which ig is not AI really but still meh. i’m not town reading him

Last game was a bit of an outlier for me tbh, I was experimenting with something/the specific circumstances of that game led to a lot of involvement early on. I’m typically more of a navigator than a driver. I’m also somewhat experimenting with only putting out reads in actually high confidence in, something I do periodically. Do with that what you will.


In response to your next post after this, idk yet. Ask me again tomorrow afternoon EDT.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Basically I'm saying you should take my three reads seriously, and almost everything else I say as at least partially tongue in cheek.

i hate to like... offend you or anything but the fact that you still only have three reads and that they’re the same exact reads you had on like page 4 is like... not great

your reads haven’t developed at all since then? any wolf reads? any more tr’s? like... what’s going on with you. your posts lately are all just getting annoyed at ppl sussing you but you’re not solving really so idk what to tell you

Idk why you’d expect my reads to change when i explicitly think they’re good reads? I don’t really believe in “developing” reads I’m happy with just for the sake of looking like I’m doing something. This probably shouldn’t come as a surprise kek

I only have three relatively high confidence reads so those are the reads ive put out. I’m going to make reads on my own time, sorry not sorry. I’m pretty busy so this is the version of nanook you’re getting

[Hally]

@Allison

Is straight to "how dare you"/OMGUS/AtE the usual way for v!Nanook to deal with suss? Because this looks a lot like how he pushed off suss from Nutella earlier.

This is NAI for nanook, in my experience with him. I think nanook is town here. His reads are both okay and in line with the sort of thing I expect him to make. Confident early game reads based on tone or stuff that's similar to tone like the Captain thing, aggressively trying to find lock town and form a towncore, not caring too much if he's scumread except to "how dare you" people who scumread him. It's fakeable as scum, but if someone has good reads and are also acting exactly like they do as town, I am inclined to townread them.

linki: Why isn't nutella/nanook W/W, Hally? What makes you think pointing out her own partner's tone as forced is outside of nutella's scum range?

you’re not concerned at all that nanook still has the same three tr’s he had at the start and nothing else? it’s been like ten pages since he gave those reads

um idk, like generally a wolf is not gonna wolf read their teammate D1 when it’s totally unnecessary and nobody else is sussing them. no point in that really (and yea, i know you’re probably gonna say you would do that as a wolf but your wolf game is not like most ppls so )

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I could make some reads up but I don’t think it’ll be productive this game given my available time/energy to spend on this