Mafia (GAME OVER)

[fingersplints]

And tbh I hate when players don’t post and then get to claim a win, so it’s time to cut the extras.

Grogu’s few posts have been
- messing around in the thread
- saying Marmot is off limits. Pretty strong defence. Mafia would know he was civvie
- conveniently showing up and apologising for inactivity once the votes start

There was a couple more but also unsubstantial

[Alison]

It doesn't matter. Scirrus and Enrique were roleblocked. The mafia kill is missing. One of them carried the factional kill. At least one of them is mafia. It is always mech optimal to vote there and even the most clueless greenhorn who plays on Town of Salem knows that.

[fingersplints]

As long as one mafia member is active, they aren't sending in nokills. So yes it is insane.

Scirrus can be a mafia vigilante.

We should always vote the mechanically outed scum. Always.

I don’t know that I buy in this small of a game the mafia would be given an extra kill.

We just lynched a civ by following “mechanically outed”

[fingersplints]

As long as one mafia member is active, they aren't sending in nokills. So yes it is insane.

Scirrus can be a mafia vigilante.

We should always vote the mechanically outed scum. Always.

I don’t know that I buy in this small of a game the mafia would be given an extra kill.

We just lynched a civ by following “mechanically outed”

[Alison]

I suspect Scirrus more and too many random people want to vote Enrique. Whoever mafia is they have someone angling for an Enrique exe. I am voting Scirrus.

[Alison]

As long as one mafia member is active, they aren't sending in nokills. So yes it is insane.

Scirrus can be a mafia vigilante.

We should always vote the mechanically outed scum. Always.

I don’t know that I buy in this small of a game the mafia would be given an extra kill.

We just lynched a civ by following “mechanically outed”

LC could be town and the kill was protected. There is no explanation for why the kill is missing tonight other than a mafia being blocked. None. Nada. Zilch. "The mafia were afk" doesn't cut it because even a single mafia member alive lets them carry a kill.

[Alison]

Given the roles we know about, 2 mafia with one of them being given extra KP is reasonable balance. We have two doctors after all.

[Enrique]

I'm not accepting this.

There was a kill N1. That was Marmot. Someone sent that in. Who was it?

I block Enrique and there's no kill and people are voting Grogu?

I can clear myself and die.
We need to vote Enrique here, he doesn’t sound truthful on his push of me.
He’s hoping I flip scum and just trying to buy a day.
Vote enrique

So let me get this straight, I’m scum but you’re hoping I flip scum?

@Alison you’re not taking into account that there’s a player that straight up admitted to forgetting to send in their night action the other day... the mafia doesn’t HAVE to be sending in their kill.

[Enrique]

errr i said that backwards

meant “you’re scum but i’m hoping you flip scum?” *

[Alison]

you're implicated by the roleblock so obviously you have an incentive to argue that the mafia kill was simply forgotten and not blocked

but I do not accept facetious arguments like "what if the mafia team all just vanished into thin air and totally forgot to submit an NK" when I have 2 roleblocks on the table

[Alison]

3 voters on enrique. 2 voters on grogu. 0 votes on scirrus.

enrique and scirrus are implicated by the roleblock.

scirrus' teammates are trying to save him. vote scirrus.

[Enrique]

Okay but. This player admitted that they forgot to send their night action. They weren’t ant more active the following day. I’m not pulling it out of my ass.

[Alison]

it could be scirrus and grogu. or scirrus, grogu and JJJ. or all three.

that's my solve atm.

[Alison]

Okay but. This player admitted that they forgot to send their night action. They weren’t ant more active the following day. I’m not pulling it out of my ass.

yeah and the entire mafia team also forgot, did they? 2-3 players that comprise the exact mafia team, talking in BTSC, all just getting confused and noping out of submitting an NK? I don't buy it.

[Enrique]

If there was a person who was supposed to do it and just forgot, nobody else had to forget, and aside from the straight up missing reywaS it wouldn’t be unlikely for a relatively innactive teammate (ie. Poison) to not follow up on the state of the kill.

The same thing happening on two consecutive nights is a lot, I realize that. But the mafia failing to kill in two nights doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that they’re here and active / paying attention.

Grogu just accused me of hoping he flips scum. Yes, I hope exactly that, but I wouldn’t be able to if I was scum! He missed a night action and is exactly as disconnected as I expect the mafia to be at this point.

[Alison]

If there was a person who was supposed to do it and just forgot, nobody else had to forget, and aside from the straight up missing reywaS it wouldn’t be unlikely for a relatively innactive teammate (ie. Poison) to not follow up on the state of the kill.

The same thing happening on two consecutive nights is a lot, I realize that. But the mafia failing to kill in two nights doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that they’re here and active / paying attention.

Grogu just accused me of hoping he flips scum. Yes, I hope exactly that, but I wouldn’t be able to if I was scum! He missed a night action and is exactly as disconnected as I expect the mafia to be at this point.

most scum team NKs are factional. even if an inactive player was selected to carry the kill, the active player could still confirm it and have it go through.

[Alison]

basically the only way that theory is true is if ALL the scum members are afk (because otherwise the active scum would just submit the factional NK), and that seems unlikely compared to just "the mafia were roleblocked"

[Enrique]

The flipside for you in case of a Grogu scum flip: we couldn’t really say you’re cleared for Night 1 anymore (I had been operating under the assumption mafia failed to kill you), but you’d still pretty much get cleared on Night 2, when you would have been free to kill someone.

[Alison]

The flipside for you in case of a Grogu scum flip: we couldn’t really say you’re cleared for Night 1 anymore (I had been operating under the assumption mafia failed to kill you), but you’d still pretty much get cleared on Night 2, when you would have been free to kill someone.

i can, because I was around n1 and could have submitted the kill

lol

[Enrique]

basically the only way that theory is true is if ALL the scum members are afk (because otherwise the active scum would just submit the factional NK), and that seems unlikely compared to just "the mafia were roleblocked"

Okay, but it’s not me. And if it’s Scirrus then I still don’t believe there was a vig kill of Marmot, IMO that would’ve just been a straight mafia kill, and Scirrus takes a big gamble claiming vig without being able to know for certain that there’s another. And IYO, does the existence of a mafia vig imply that there can’t be a town one?

[Enrique]

The flipside for you in case of a Grogu scum flip: we couldn’t really say you’re cleared for Night 1 anymore (I had been operating under the assumption mafia failed to kill you), but you’d still pretty much get cleared on Night 2, when you would have been free to kill someone.

i can, because I was around n1 and could have submitted the kill

lol

Mb. Couldn’t remember exactly when you subbed in.

[Alison]

basically the only way that theory is true is if ALL the scum members are afk (because otherwise the active scum would just submit the factional NK), and that seems unlikely compared to just "the mafia were roleblocked"

Okay, but it’s not me. And if it’s Scirrus then I still don’t believe there was a vig kill of Marmot, IMO that would’ve just been a straight mafia kill, and Scirrus takes a big gamble claiming vig without being able to know for certain that there’s another. And IYO, does the existence of a mafia vig imply that there can’t be a town one?

not sure

town vig + mafia vig + 2 docs is an interesting setup

I tend to believe mafia vig = no town vig

it's possible scirrus just carried the NK to marmot's door and there was never a vig at all, yes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There is no mechanically outed scum in this game. With only twelve players to start, two completed inactive players don’t represent some absurd or impossible or insane possible explanation for zero kills.

I could chop Enrique or Scirrus. But they’re not anymore “outed” than Long Con was.

[Grogu]

errr i said that backwards

meant “you’re scum but i’m hoping you flip scum?” *

What I meant is that you are not even convinced I am scum. You are just saying grogu might flip scum if we wagon you and I.
It lacks truth.

[Grogu]

it could be scirrus and grogu. or scirrus, grogu and JJJ. or all three.

that's my solve atm.

It is never me. I am a protective role which is always town in my limited experience.

[Enrique]

who did you protect...

[Grogu]

If there was a person who was supposed to do it and just forgot, nobody else had to forget, and aside from the straight up missing reywaS it wouldn’t be unlikely for a relatively innactive teammate (ie. Poison) to not follow up on the state of the kill.

The same thing happening on two consecutive nights is a lot, I realize that. But the mafia failing to kill in two nights doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that they’re here and active / paying attention.

Grogu just accused me of hoping he flips scum. Yes, I hope exactly that, but I wouldn’t be able to if I was scum! He missed a night action and is exactly as disconnected as I expect the mafia to be at this point.

I missed a night action and the other I decided I wasn’t going to use. I have only not been around 1 night.
I decided on my own not to use my action since I thought it was beneficial to save until I needed to save a cop or something. Then Alison claimed some insane thing. Seems pointless

[Grogu]

basically the only way that theory is true is if ALL the scum members are afk (because otherwise the active scum would just submit the factional NK), and that seems unlikely compared to just "the mafia were roleblocked"

Okay, but it’s not me. And if it’s Scirrus then I still don’t believe there was a vig kill of Marmot, IMO that would’ve just been a straight mafia kill, and Scirrus takes a big gamble claiming vig without being able to know for certain that there’s another. And IYO, does the existence of a mafia vig imply that there can’t be a town one?

not sure

town vig + mafia vig + 2 docs is an interesting setup

I tend to believe mafia vig = no town vig

it's possible scirrus just carried the NK to marmot's door and there was never a vig at all, yes.

I think this is more likely. Which town vig kills one of the best players we had?? That makes no sense.
I am willing to give Enrique a day

[Grogu]

who did you protect...

Exactly no one. So in a way I have protected myself each night as a result.

[Grogu]

I switched to scirrus. There’s scum between them and Enrique.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

it could be scirrus and grogu. or scirrus, grogu and JJJ. or all three.

that's my solve atm.

It is never me. I am a protective role which is always town in my limited experience.

What kind of protective role *exactly*?

[Grogu]

Why do you want to know? I don’t really want to claim it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If there was a person who was supposed to do it and just forgot, nobody else had to forget, and aside from the straight up missing reywaS it wouldn’t be unlikely for a relatively innactive teammate (ie. Poison) to not follow up on the state of the kill.

The same thing happening on two consecutive nights is a lot, I realize that. But the mafia failing to kill in two nights doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that they’re here and active / paying attention.

Grogu just accused me of hoping he flips scum. Yes, I hope exactly that, but I wouldn’t be able to if I was scum! He missed a night action and is exactly as disconnected as I expect the mafia to be at this point.

most scum team NKs are factional. even if an inactive player was selected to carry the kill, the active player could still confirm it and have it go through.

G-man already said it doesn’t work this way.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why do you want to know? I don’t really want to claim it.

We have a role blocker (splints).

A full time doctor (nanook).

A one-shot of each (epi).

And whatever you claim to be.

It’s hard to believe all of these are real.

[Grogu]

Jagged you are one of my favorite players and it worries me that I have played 5 games in this site and in all that you played with me I am always scum to you. Please explain that to me, it is my activity levels or my lack of skills? It gets kinda old when your posts are always: grogu fits in all the scum teams. Grogu and xxx and yyy or grogu and xxy or bbb or aaa or grogu and ccc, kkk or abc.
Come on...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jagged you are one of my favorite players and it worries me that I have played 5 games in this site and in all that you played with me I am always scum to you. Please explain that to me, it is my activity levels or my lack of skills? It gets kinda old when your posts are always: grogu fits in all the scum teams. Grogu and xxx and yyy or grogu and xxy or bbb or aaa or grogu and ccc, kkk or abc.
Come on...

When you don’t make many posts it is nearly impossible to clear you. That’s just how it is. If you don’t want to be in a process of elimination pool, folks need material to work with.

[Grogu]

Why do you want to know? I don’t really want to claim it.

We have a role blocker (splints).

A full time doctor (nanook).

A one-shot of each (epi).

And whatever you claim to be.

It’s hard to believe all of these are real.

I might not believe splint there. I think he’s a scum rb
I am a bodyguard. I do not protect from the kill, I become the kill for someone. I have selfishly decided I am worth more than anyone so far. If Alison was a real cop I would have given my lofe for her gladly.

[Grogu]

Jagged you are one of my favorite players and it worries me that I have played 5 games in this site and in all that you played with me I am always scum to you. Please explain that to me, it is my activity levels or my lack of skills? It gets kinda old when your posts are always: grogu fits in all the scum teams. Grogu and xxx and yyy or grogu and xxy or bbb or aaa or grogu and ccc, kkk or abc.
Come on...

When you don’t make many posts it is nearly impossible to clear you. That’s just how it is. If you don’t want to be in a process of elimination pool, folks need material to work with.

I posted in one game more than I have in my whole mafia career. You still had me as scum even with scum whom I pushed. I think you are just lazy or something in my style you just don’t like.
Don’t talk about activity now like that would change your mind. I just proved it didn’t in the past. Everyone had me as clear town but you and scum. Think about that for a second

[Grogu]

Claim:
I am Bodyguard. I can protect someone and take a bullet for them.
I am ToWn!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Grogu I suspected pretty much everyone in Bread Mafia at one point or another, and you definitely weren’t “worse off” among them. Even when my reads were incorrect I was voting for Long Con and Made and Omega more than I was for you. Anyway, you’re talking about two games so calm down.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

Mafia vig is easier to buy with 90 protective roles. Even my role can be pseudo-protective.

[fingersplints]

I can be persuaded to the scirrus vote.

[Enrique]

Announcing this now rather than surprising you later: I'm not convinced, but, if by the end of the day I'm tying Grogu to Scirrus with my extra vote, I will move my vote to ensure that there is a lynch.

[G-Man]

As of this post, @KZA is replacing reywaS. KZA will be allowed to vote in today’s poll. If you want to vote for KZA, vote for reywaS in the poll.

[KZA]

I'm town. Gonna read the whole thread in a bit.

[Alison]

I'm town. Gonna read the whole thread in a bit.

There are two afks player slots.

The mafia team did not submit a night action last night. No protective abilities were used, and nobody was blocked or jailkept.

Tell me why you and Poison aren't just the outed team.

[Grogu]

Hi kza welcome

[KZA]

I'm town. Gonna read the whole thread in a bit.

There are two afks player slots.

The mafia team did not submit a night action last night. No protective abilities were used, and nobody was blocked or jailkept.

Tell me why you and Poison aren't just the outed team.

I've seen scum opt out of actions and even kills to frame inactives on more than one occasion so I hardly think this damns me.

I'd be pretty surprised if you've never seen it before.

---

Okay gonna read the thread now so give me a bit.

[fingersplints]

3 people with votes. Each one has someone I trust and at least one I don’t know. I’m mostly ok with a grogu or scirrus lynch.
To summarise my thoughts:
scirrus, I am less trusting of the vole claim. I don’t know if I necessarily by the mafia had a vig kill as well, although it’s been pointed out there are a lot of roles claimed so it could be explained by balance. I still think it’s possible that was just the mafia kill with a false claim out there in hopes we would lynch someone on the basis of block, which we did. A risky move but not unheard of for mafia, especially at that point IF the mafia has three members that would have meant only 7 civvies left in the game at that point. Some smart moves would certainly win the game.
Grogu: I still think some of the mafia is inactive players based on process of elimination even if we take out the talk of if the kills were missed. I find it really suspicious how they were in the thread the moment votes were cast against them. It all just reads entirely too convenient to me.
reywas/KZA: welcome to the game and sorry, but again process of elimination makes me suspicious of you. I don’t plan on voting for you today though, because there are stronger suspects and well I just think that’s generally bad form.
I’m really torn on Enrique. I see the points on him but I really want to trust him. Maybe he just has me fooled.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The ability for mafia to willfully skip kills screws most of my ability to evaluate the game. I’m really not sure how to even approach solving.

If I just vote on pure behavior, I could go for a few options:

Scirrus for being less inspired the last cycle and a half than on Day 1

Alison for promoting mechanical world views that don’t seem respectful of the evidence available

Enrique for seeming rather tagalong lately to thread momentum