Double Elimination Mafia town win

[Timsup2nothin]

Send Mac to loser's because Alison said he's scum. Alison talks to Mac in loser's, determines he is no longer scum, unvotes him. Exe Mac anyway. Makes no sense.

Made wanted Mac dead more than anyone else. Mac is the only vote Made had. Conclusion: Mac being dead was scum agenda.

Tim hard pushed Mac. Conclusion: Tim is scum.

Everyone else on that wagon apart from Daisy is dead. If Made is the only wolf in loser's bracket and just wanted to fling shit at a wrongly suspected townie he would probably vote more than one person. Everything - especially the part where people don't change their reads after I change mine - suggest that they really wanted to bury Mac into the ground. It's a classic Tim play as scum, try to get strong players eliminated early so he can dominate the game.

Why didn't Made vote you?

[Alison]

What on earth do you mean by adapting to the setup? I'm playing this setup optimally. If the team is (for example) you/holllowkatt/Kylemii then I am wasting time chasing false leads if I'm trying to get other people in this bracket exed. I am well aware we have 3 exes today. I want one to be you. The other two, shrug. I don't have strong scumreads on anyone in this bracket which is why I said "just go for the slankers I guess". But voting them dilutes the relative ability of my vote to get you exed and I care about that above all else.

[Alison]

Send Mac to loser's because Alison said he's scum. Alison talks to Mac in loser's, determines he is no longer scum, unvotes him. Exe Mac anyway. Makes no sense.

Made wanted Mac dead more than anyone else. Mac is the only vote Made had. Conclusion: Mac being dead was scum agenda.

Tim hard pushed Mac. Conclusion: Tim is scum.

Everyone else on that wagon apart from Daisy is dead. If Made is the only wolf in loser's bracket and just wanted to fling shit at a wrongly suspected townie he would probably vote more than one person. Everything - especially the part where people don't change their reads after I change mine - suggest that they really wanted to bury Mac into the ground. It's a classic Tim play as scum, try to get strong players eliminated early so he can dominate the game.

Why didn't Made vote you?

Because he wanted Mac dead and he had the ability to decide if I lived or died anyway?

[Timsup2nothin]

Nope. The exact same argument holds if either Alison or I are woofin'...as always, neither of us can be trusted on anything but production of pelts. I think iget a little credit for Made, and Alison gets none. So I think Alison goes in today's batch and unless I am doing better than "a little credit for Made's pelt" then I have to go tomorrow. This is just the way things work out for people with high end wolf reps.

Yeah except all that credit vanishes because you nakedly pushed obvious villagers like Mac and Gavial.

When you and Mac read each other as hard out wolves that die was cast...leaving either of you unresolved was dumb, leaving you both unresolved would have been just ridiculous.

As to Gavail...regrettable. Definitely should have been you. Poison should have voted you for self pres, just like I voted Gavail. If she has today would be easy, one way or the other, but such is life.

[Alison]

Nope. The exact same argument holds if either Alison or I are woofin'...as always, neither of us can be trusted on anything but production of pelts. I think iget a little credit for Made, and Alison gets none. So I think Alison goes in today's batch and unless I am doing better than "a little credit for Made's pelt" then I have to go tomorrow. This is just the way things work out for people with high end wolf reps.

Yeah except all that credit vanishes because you nakedly pushed obvious villagers like Mac and Gavial.

When you and Mac read each other as hard out wolves that die was cast...leaving either of you unresolved was dumb, leaving you both unresolved would have been just ridiculous.

As to Gavail...regrettable. Definitely should have been you. Poison should have voted you for self pres, just like I voted Gavail. If she has today would be easy, one way or the other, but such is life.

What do you mean that die was cast I straight up told you all to reverse course on Mac and you did it anyway, and you did everything in your power to make sure his exe went through. Any townie could have, at any point, simply unvoted like I did. Which is what they should have done because we found each other as town in the loser's bracket, like we always do when we town together, and I told you all I was doing my solving on the basis that Mac was town. As far as I know votes aren't locked so I don't know why you're pretending like you had "no choice" but to exe Mac.

[Timsup2nothin]

What on earth do you mean by adapting to the setup? I'm playing this setup optimally. If the team is (for example) you/holllowkatt/Kylemii then I am wasting time chasing false leads if I'm trying to get other people in this bracket exed. I am well aware we have 3 exes today. I want one to be you. The other two, shrug. I don't have strong scumreads on anyone in this bracket which is why I said "just go for the slankers I guess". But voting them dilutes the relative ability of my vote to get you exed and I care about that above all else.

Other than them not openly agreeing with your tunnel what have Kyle and HK done wrong?

[G-Man]

’Sup, losers?



Sorry- I couldn’t help myself.

I just got in from mowing, so it’s time to hop in the shower.

In the meantime...

What do you think of the WB sus of Tony post-Made flip?

What are your opinions of the four of you Original Losers after post-Made flip?

Say we got it right and the final two baddies are in the LB right now:
-If it is two baddies from the remaining Original Losers (OL for short), who do you believe they are?
-If it is two baddies from the New Losers (Newsers?), who do you believe they are?
-If it is one from the OL crew and one from the Newsers, who do you believe they are?

[Alison]

I'm done burying Tim. If you're smart you'll vote him today. If you can't get there on him, wait for me to flip town and turbo him the day after. Worst case scenario: all three exes today flip town, 8P mountainous, Tim flips scum, and we end up in 5 town 1 scum mountainous and you have some decent leads/associatives which should be enough to win the game.

[Alison]

What on earth do you mean by adapting to the setup? I'm playing this setup optimally. If the team is (for example) you/holllowkatt/Kylemii then I am wasting time chasing false leads if I'm trying to get other people in this bracket exed. I am well aware we have 3 exes today. I want one to be you. The other two, shrug. I don't have strong scumreads on anyone in this bracket which is why I said "just go for the slankers I guess". But voting them dilutes the relative ability of my vote to get you exed and I care about that above all else.

Other than them not openly agreeing with your tunnel what have Kyle and HK done wrong?

Kyle's much lesser priority than HK and I only used that team construction as an example.

I disagree with every push HK has made so far and I know I'm town so either he is very wrong town, I am very wrong town or he is scum. I'm proposing we exe you first before HK so we'll know for a fact who's the very wrong town before we have to make decisions about HK. If HK is too wrong he can't be allowed to live. On an object level his stuff about how pocketed he was by Marmot because Marmot did a couple of associative reads he agreed with was bad.

[Timsup2nothin]

Nope. The exact same argument holds if either Alison or I are woofin'...as always, neither of us can be trusted on anything but production of pelts. I think iget a little credit for Made, and Alison gets none. So I think Alison goes in today's batch and unless I am doing better than "a little credit for Made's pelt" then I have to go tomorrow. This is just the way things work out for people with high end wolf reps.

Yeah except all that credit vanishes because you nakedly pushed obvious villagers like Mac and Gavial.

When you and Mac read each other as hard out wolves that die was cast...leaving either of you unresolved was dumb, leaving you both unresolved would have been just ridiculous.

As to Gavail...regrettable. Definitely should have been you. Poison should have voted you for self pres, just like I voted Gavail. If she has today would be easy, one way or the other, but such is life.

What do you mean that die was cast I straight up told you all to reverse course on Mac and you did it anyway, and you did everything in your power to make sure his exe went through. Any townie could have, at any point, simply unvoted like I did. Which is what they should have done because we found each other as town in the loser's bracket, like we always do when we town together, and I told you all I was doing my solving on the basis that Mac was town. As far as I know votes aren't locked so I don't know why you're pretending like you had "no choice" but to exe Mac.

I saw no choice but to execute you both. Your heel turns were both apparently founded far more in "I wanna live" than in any reasons the other had given for reversing the read, and "I wanna live" is NAI at best but really more wolfy than not. So independently other than "mac says I'm town" you had nothing going for you, and other than "Alison says I'm town" Mac had nothing going for him. Half the people in the bracket were gonna die, and the two wolfiest were you and Mac and you both should have given reads and died. If you are town and you had died I'd have six votes on me right now and your desires to have me executed today would have already been set in stone.

But your real interest wasn't saving Mab, or even killing me...your interest was survival.

And while you were busy surviving you managed not to get even a hair of the taken wolf pelt. That's not you as town Alison. No more than your current "all the wolves but Tim are in the upper bracket so <shrug>" play is you as town.

[Alison]

I saw no choice but to execute you both. Your heel turns were both apparently founded far more in "I wanna live" than in any reasons the other had given for reversing the read, and "I wanna live" is NAI at best but really more wolfy than not. So independently other than "mac says I'm town" you had nothing going for you, and other than "Alison says I'm town" Mac had nothing going for him. Half the people in the bracket were gonna die, and the two wolfiest were you and Mac and you both should have given reads and died. If you are town and you had died I'd have six votes on me right now and your desires to have me executed today would have already been set in stone.

But your real interest wasn't saving Mab, or even killing me...your interest was survival.

And while you were busy surviving you managed not to get even a hair of the taken wolf pelt. That's not you as town Alison. No more than your current "all the wolves but Tim are in the upper bracket so <shrug>" play is you as town.

Neither of us said that because we wanted to live. Both of us are very capable of suicide bombing ourselves as town. Mac literally suicide bombed himself twice as town and I regularly go all out to get someone I want exed. In fact we said it because of very specific reads on the threadstate and how many people were swallowing the "Mac/Alison one wolf" narrative. We both said it in thread, and you will not get away with lying about that.

Our argument was that the scum team's actions did not make sense if either one of us was a wolf. If Mac is a wolf then his team was happy to let him die just to misexe me and vice versa. Did not make sense as a play. That is a solid argument and guess what, it was right and I know that for a fact. However you didn't take this into account, you just killed Mac despite me, the original person who raised suspicion on him in the first place, saying not to. You have the audacity to exe Mac directly against my wishes and now you are trying to get everyone to ignore his legacy. Therefore you are a wolf.

[Timsup2nothin]

’Sup, losers?



Sorry- I couldn’t help myself.

I just got in from mowing, so it’s time to hop in the shower.

In the meantime...

What do you think of the WB sus of Tony post-Made flip?

What are your opinions of the four of you Original Losers after post-Made flip?

Say we got it right and the final two baddies are in the LB right now:
-If it is two baddies from the remaining Original Losers (OL for short), who do you believe they are?
-If it is two baddies from the New Losers (Newsers?), who do you believe they are?
-If it is one from the OL crew and one from the Newsers, who do you believe they are?

Current inclination, if we had all three wolves in lower bracket yesterday then Alison and TSP.

If the only wolf in lower bracket yesterday was Made I see very little chance that you guys managed to dump both into the bracket today, no offense.

If it's one and one it's Alison most likely and I'd guess at Wilgy...but that's a slight tip at best.

[Alison]

In a sane town everyone would have immediately unvoted Mac the moment we started townreading each other. That they didn't is honestly shockingly bad. However not everyone knows Mac's history with me so that can be forgiven. What cannot be overlooked is trying to pass it off as two people just making up shit to survive especially when one of them has flipped town and pretending like none of you had a choice when you clearly did.

[Timsup2nothin]

I saw no choice but to execute you both. Your heel turns were both apparently founded far more in "I wanna live" than in any reasons the other had given for reversing the read, and "I wanna live" is NAI at best but really more wolfy than not. So independently other than "mac says I'm town" you had nothing going for you, and other than "Alison says I'm town" Mac had nothing going for him. Half the people in the bracket were gonna die, and the two wolfiest were you and Mac and you both should have given reads and died. If you are town and you had died I'd have six votes on me right now and your desires to have me executed today would have already been set in stone.

But your real interest wasn't saving Mab, or even killing me...your interest was survival.

And while you were busy surviving you managed not to get even a hair of the taken wolf pelt. That's not you as town Alison. No more than your current "all the wolves but Tim are in the upper bracket so <shrug>" play is you as town.

Neither of us said that because we wanted to live. Both of us are very capable of suicide bombing ourselves as town. Mac literally suicide bombed himself twice as town and I regularly go all out to get someone I want exed. In fact we said it because of very specific reads on the threadstate and how many people were swallowing the "Mac/Alison one wolf" narrative. We both said it in thread, and you will not get away with lying about that.

Our argument was that the scum team's actions did not make sense if either one of us was a wolf. If Mac is a wolf then his team was happy to let him die just to misexe me and vice versa. Did not make sense as a play. That is a solid argument and guess what, it was right and I know that for a fact. However you didn't take this into account, you just killed Mac despite me, the original person who raised suspicion on him in the first place, saying not to. You have the audacity to exe Mac directly against my wishes and now you are trying to get everyone to ignore his legacy. Therefore you are a wolf.

That's a bullshit argument and I told you it was at the time. If you are a wolf cruising along with two bussy slanky partners and Mac strikes a scumread on you out of the sky your bussy/slanky partners aren't gonna jump against Mac to save you and you know it. You would be on your own to live or die by turning him around or shoving him over first. And there is NO shortage of potential bussy/slanky partners that could be on that team...Made being a great example. You think "the threadstate" was gonna make Made pop out of the weeds and take on Mac? C'mon.

[G-Man]

Save some posts for, you know, productive discussion, kay? Tim and Alison trying to yell over each other just makes the rest of the LB feel like kids caught in the middle of an ugly divorce. I lived that reality in my last job- the two owners were at each other’s throats constantly. Been there, done that, burned the old company t-shirt. No thanks.

Though the tin-foil geek in me would love to theorize that the team is just Made-Alison-Tim and this is all just a bunch of sick and twisted theatre. But in a game like this, why bother trying that hard?

[Alison]

That's a bullshit argument and I told you it was at the time. If you are a wolf cruising along with two bussy slanky partners and Mac strikes a scumread on you out of the sky your bussy/slanky partners aren't gonna jump against Mac to save you and you know it. You would be on your own to live or die by turning him around or shoving him over first. And there is NO shortage of potential bussy/slanky partners that could be on that team...Made being a great example. You think "the threadstate" was gonna make Made pop out of the weeds and take on Mac? C'mon.

No all they had to do was say "I don't know I don't think there's at least one wolf between the two to sow some doubt about the double kill. Instead EVERYONE in the thread was perfectly willing and eager to swallow that line. There was 0 reason for either wolf Alison or wolf Mac to go balls to the wall trying to kill the other there and instruct their teammates to follow suit.

Also it's literally an argument Mac himself made so you can cease trying to frame it as something cooked up by scum.

[Alison]

Save some posts for, you know, productive discussion, kay? Tim and Alison trying to yell over each other just makes the rest of the LB feel like kids caught in the middle of an ugly divorce. I lived that reality in my last job- the two owners were at each other’s throats constantly. Been there, done that, burned the old company t-shirt. No thanks.

Though the tin-foil geek in me would love to theorize that the team is just Made-Alison-Tim and this is all just a bunch of sick and twisted theatre. But in a game like this, why bother trying that hard?

You're right. I've made my point about Tim, everyone knows exactly who I suspect if I flip.

Let's talk about the slankers.

TSP/Wilgy. What do you think about them?

[G-Man]

Seems we need to redo the ISO list for the night phase:

Host Nanook

Winners Bracket:
HK
Kyle
Marmot
Moghedien


Losers Bracket:
Alison
DaisyCloud
Falcon
G-Man
Tim
TSP
Wilgy


Dead:
Gavial<---CIVVIE
LC<---CIVVIE
MacDougall<---CIVVIE
Made<---MAFIA
Poison<---CIVVIE

[Timsup2nothin]

Made in the first four pages didn't do anything that can't be just distancing, but if I was to pick out one interaction that looks genuine it would be with Hollowkatt and looks good for him.

[Timsup2nothin]

The fact that Alison seems to have not read Made's ISO for spew is suss.

And I say that not to extend the hostilities but just because it is really obvious who is the most likely clearable player off of Made's day one...and while a number of people have seen that Alison is not one of them.

[G-Man]

Save some posts for, you know, productive discussion, kay? Tim and Alison trying to yell over each other just makes the rest of the LB feel like kids caught in the middle of an ugly divorce. I lived that reality in my last job- the two owners were at each other’s throats constantly. Been there, done that, burned the old company t-shirt. No thanks.

Though the tin-foil geek in me would love to theorize that the team is just Made-Alison-Tim and this is all just a bunch of sick and twisted theatre. But in a game like this, why bother trying that hard?

You're right. I've made my point about Tim, everyone knows exactly who I suspect if I flip.

Let's talk about the slankers.

TSP/Wilgy. What do you think about them?

Slanking, for lack of a better term, is what a lot of people would call a bunch of Wilgy's games. It's a bit unfair in my opinion. Sometimes it's just forgetfulness, while other times he's just a nonchalant kind of cat with other things going on in life. I spoke about Wilgy from a strategy point of view here. Bringing him down here is a gamble. Chopping him 'deals' with him him regardless, and we have a spare chop to burn. With this setup, it's extra tempting to chop low-post-count players, but low-posting is NAI when it comes to Wilgy in my experience. Is anyone else low-posting, coasting, or working hard at hardly working to a degree that is outside their norm? Same goes for anyone exerting more than 'typical' effort.

Wilgy and I took the low-post & coast route most of the way through Corrupt?!, which was another atypical setup. In that game, we adapted to the unique format of the game and used it to our advantage. This all means that I know that Wilgy is capable of 'slanking' his way to endgame under the right circumstances. I didn't feel one way or another about him up to the EoD just now. He did show up and I thought there was something different about his play. My viewpoint is biased by being in a hurry to make dinner and get out to mow. I need to re-read that EoD to see what I think of Wilgy's play.

Tony was a topic of discussion in the WB during D2. He struck several of us as the most enigmatic of the remaining LB folk. There were some possible ties to Made. If you haven't looked back at our discussion during the day, I recommend it. I need to do so as well. I think I have hosted Tony more often than played with him (or at least it seems that way), so I don't have any meta on file (for the record, I stopped recording player meta in my mental database a long way back, and only really notable stuff makes a dent anymore).

One question that I would ask of both you (Alison) and Tim is this: Can you tie the other to Made? If you believe you have already posted such associations, I will go through your ISO(s) and look for it. If not, please go back through Made's ISO and and look for connections to your nemesis.

[falcon45ca]

I feel like I've read 6 posts with 37485858 word count, jesus

[Timsup2nothin]

but like actually it really hard to ground myself in a game when no one has any strong takes on me, and i guess it makes sense for that to be the case in a Double Elimination Mafia situation, but at the same time, I don't really get how i ended up in losers in that case considering there's other players who explicitly wanted to be in loser but didn't make it, off the top Marmot for example. His weird "imma just bottom half lol" and the fact that he's not here in losers with us makes him a top scum read for me... but he's not here, so yikes

Mac voted me, twice now but is refusing to give any sort of take on me. Dazzz sus af cuz to my memory scumMac is far more passive than that townmac. I doubt ScumMac is afraid of me persay, but i don't like the lack of interaction.

Alison has a tendency to Martyr herself as town and agressively pushing for her own death here, so keeping her alive while waiting for her reads to pay out or even just waiting for the inevitable early game night kill is enough reason for me to keep her alive for now. I think we always chop Alison Day 3.

Depending on how aware Daisy is if her own meta, she's loltown.

Gavial reads me as town which I don't really like cuz I haven't done much to deserve it, and the fact that they also want Mac and Alison dead, assuming they know enough to know of Mac and Alison's reputation here is ngl. Actually if they don't have knowledge of that, It could be BTSC informing them of that.

Tim hasn't said anything that's made me upset yet, and that's unsettling. I don't know how he died in Syn's game, so I don't know how you catch Tim, but considering he died earlyish in Stardew, a town Tim who's making sense is someone we might need to keep in loser and scum Tim might not last

I don't remember reading anything from TSP past the first page, which why i'm confused on how he made it to loser as well. This game might be solvable based on who did and didn't make it to loser, i'm gonna look there till someone tries to drag and I can fight them

I could almost take this post as spewing that the other two wolves were in the upper bracket at the time...almost.

[falcon45ca]

but like actually it really hard to ground myself in a game when no one has any strong takes on me, and i guess it makes sense for that to be the case in a Double Elimination Mafia situation, but at the same time, I don't really get how i ended up in losers in that case considering there's other players who explicitly wanted to be in loser but didn't make it, off the top Marmot for example. His weird "imma just bottom half lol" and the fact that he's not here in losers with us makes him a top scum read for me... but he's not here, so yikes

Mac voted me, twice now but is refusing to give any sort of take on me. Dazzz sus af cuz to my memory scumMac is far more passive than that townmac. I doubt ScumMac is afraid of me persay, but i don't like the lack of interaction.

Alison has a tendency to Martyr herself as town and agressively pushing for her own death here, so keeping her alive while waiting for her reads to pay out or even just waiting for the inevitable early game night kill is enough reason for me to keep her alive for now. I think we always chop Alison Day 3.

Depending on how aware Daisy is if her own meta, she's loltown.

Gavial reads me as town which I don't really like cuz I haven't done much to deserve it, and the fact that they also want Mac and Alison dead, assuming they know enough to know of Mac and Alison's reputation here is ngl. Actually if they don't have knowledge of that, It could be BTSC informing them of that.

Tim hasn't said anything that's made me upset yet, and that's unsettling. I don't know how he died in Syn's game, so I don't know how you catch Tim, but considering he died earlyish in Stardew, a town Tim who's making sense is someone we might need to keep in loser and scum Tim might not last

I don't remember reading anything from TSP past the first page, which why i'm confused on how he made it to loser as well. This game might be solvable based on who did and didn't make it to loser, i'm gonna look there till someone tries to drag and I can fight them

What if the Maf are all huge wall posters?

[DaisyCloud]

but like actually it really hard to ground myself in a game when no one has any strong takes on me, and i guess it makes sense for that to be the case in a Double Elimination Mafia situation, but at the same time, I don't really get how i ended up in losers in that case considering there's other players who explicitly wanted to be in loser but didn't make it, off the top Marmot for example. His weird "imma just bottom half lol" and the fact that he's not here in losers with us makes him a top scum read for me... but he's not here, so yikes

Mac voted me, twice now but is refusing to give any sort of take on me. Dazzz sus af cuz to my memory scumMac is far more passive than that townmac. I doubt ScumMac is afraid of me persay, but i don't like the lack of interaction.

Alison has a tendency to Martyr herself as town and agressively pushing for her own death here, so keeping her alive while waiting for her reads to pay out or even just waiting for the inevitable early game night kill is enough reason for me to keep her alive for now. I think we always chop Alison Day 3.

Depending on how aware Daisy is if her own meta, she's loltown.

Gavial reads me as town which I don't really like cuz I haven't done much to deserve it, and the fact that they also want Mac and Alison dead, assuming they know enough to know of Mac and Alison's reputation here is ngl. Actually if they don't have knowledge of that, It could be BTSC informing them of that.

Tim hasn't said anything that's made me upset yet, and that's unsettling. I don't know how he died in Syn's game, so I don't know how you catch Tim, but considering he died earlyish in Stardew, a town Tim who's making sense is someone we might need to keep in loser and scum Tim might not last

I don't remember reading anything from TSP past the first page, which why i'm confused on how he made it to loser as well. This game might be solvable based on who did and didn't make it to loser, i'm gonna look there till someone tries to drag and I can fight them

What if the Maf are all huge wall posters?

or
or, maybe it's all quippy people like u and Made.

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

[falcon45ca]

but like actually it really hard to ground myself in a game when no one has any strong takes on me, and i guess it makes sense for that to be the case in a Double Elimination Mafia situation, but at the same time, I don't really get how i ended up in losers in that case considering there's other players who explicitly wanted to be in loser but didn't make it, off the top Marmot for example. His weird "imma just bottom half lol" and the fact that he's not here in losers with us makes him a top scum read for me... but he's not here, so yikes

Mac voted me, twice now but is refusing to give any sort of take on me. Dazzz sus af cuz to my memory scumMac is far more passive than that townmac. I doubt ScumMac is afraid of me persay, but i don't like the lack of interaction.

Alison has a tendency to Martyr herself as town and agressively pushing for her own death here, so keeping her alive while waiting for her reads to pay out or even just waiting for the inevitable early game night kill is enough reason for me to keep her alive for now. I think we always chop Alison Day 3.

Depending on how aware Daisy is if her own meta, she's loltown.

Gavial reads me as town which I don't really like cuz I haven't done much to deserve it, and the fact that they also want Mac and Alison dead, assuming they know enough to know of Mac and Alison's reputation here is ngl. Actually if they don't have knowledge of that, It could be BTSC informing them of that.

Tim hasn't said anything that's made me upset yet, and that's unsettling. I don't know how he died in Syn's game, so I don't know how you catch Tim, but considering he died earlyish in Stardew, a town Tim who's making sense is someone we might need to keep in loser and scum Tim might not last

I don't remember reading anything from TSP past the first page, which why i'm confused on how he made it to loser as well. This game might be solvable based on who did and didn't make it to loser, i'm gonna look there till someone tries to drag and I can fight them

What if the Maf are all huge wall posters?

or
or, maybe it's all quippy people like u and Made.

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Irony, I give you daisy cloud, who quips about quips with a quip of her own

[Timsup2nothin]

Quip, quip, quip...

oh

wait, no

That's clip

[DaisyCloud]

I don't like dr. willy at all. I remember him. I forget what he randed. idk what he is here.

he reminds me of a player I know in my old community. didn't like that guy either. slanking was his mo too. which btw is really so unfair. but whatever. difference is in hindsight that dude had some good insights and knew what's what but he kept it all to himself. it was like pulling teeth to get anything out of him.

sooo, idk dr. wilgy might get a vote from me if I can't come to other conclusions.

read up on falcon45ca. read what peeps in bracket1 had to say.

I think gman is town. I hope he can help us find the other scum.

mog, they did to seem a bit better but I still see some contradictory stuff they said. still don't like them.

I'm on mobile idk why I state that I'm always on mobile, my point .. I had one, imma try to find the post from mog so u guys can see and tell me if it's just a mistake or they trying to spin tales to keep a fellow wolf hidden. idk they is null leaning scum.

Hollowkatt not scum reading me and thinking I'm town but maybe scum is idk think they is town. wifom. is this ethos? budding? is this legit and they just town and not sure? it's easier to find for 2 towns to town each other. imma null hk. it's safer. them is not here. they did a good job talking about others.

am I supposed to believe Alison slept all them long hours since they last posted? r they in dime foreign country or something? her smarmyness to me voting her is just.. and her blaming all of is for Mac, when she did zero to help town. saying we screwed up. where was she? she unvotes Mac for 0 reasons. then did nothing else. she left it as me and Tim scum. then bye peace ✌

idk, how im supposed to believe she is town here. then she and Tim just arguing. her just blaming Tim.

she did this with Mac. making us choose her or him or both.

bet

Alison will suddenly afk and then come back make a tiny wall post and quote Tim or whatever, say Tim town, and unvote Tim then be like I'll be back to vote. votes like on one of the top ties and be all peace✌ or just doesn't vote at all.

she may make mention of 'oh don't be blind but so and so is town.' but give no real reason why.

I don't like her iso, and despite her saying who she thinks is scum or who she thinks is town there isn't much backing.. well other then Tim, tony and Mac.

I thought Alison liked Tony? why this suss of Tony? why suddenly town read me?


[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

idk guys, I might be biased but I don't think so.

[DaisyCloud]

actually

[unvote]Alison[/unvote]

[DaisyCloud]

Quip, quip, quip...

oh

wait, no

That's clip

Kawaii ♡♡

[DaisyCloud]

I don't like this narrative that it is her or tim or both. she is doing it again, like with Mac.

she is gonna deny it. but I literally just read it all so im not getting gas lite about it like she trying to gas light everyone down in bracket 2 from the previous nite


also I didn't realize that mafia gets the be the tie breaker. I don't think poison realized that either.

[DaisyCloud]

I think Marmot is town.

I appreciated that he gave a list of players and where and what flips and it was colored coded.

I like that gman did something similar down here too.

don't but daisy me. I know scum can do that sort of thing, but it's nice and helpful and pro-town.

[DaisyCloud]

btw, that isn't the only reason I like Marmot. so don't but daisy me later

[Timsup2nothin]

So, unless something changes this is what I am probably doing.

Alison and I have to be resolved before LYLO. If one of us flips wolf it clears the other. I think the Made flip pretty clearly establishes that the most likely hit here is Alison, but YMMV. If one of us doesn't die today then we both have to die tomorrow and no clear happens. So I [VOTE: Alison] aubergine and hope for agreement.

In a regular game Wilgy has a decent chance of just voting right and getting spewed clear even though he doesn't post reads and stuff. This game is going to arrive at a conclusion way too soon and vote scattering is just a problem so unless he changes how he plays I don't see any way he gets firmly read before LYLO, therefor he just cannot go to LYLO. Sad but true, [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Daisy I think is towny. There are some questions I will ask her if I am alive at LYLO with her that I believe will resolve her either way. If I am not alive at LYLO people who have played with me a lot should go through her ISO and look at things she has said about me...you'll know what to ask. That's if she isn't just completely resolved. Either way, she is good to take to endgame because she can be resolved.

G-Man has taken stands, seems inclined to take more stands, and will certainly be solved. Good for end game.

Falcon and TSP. While not as insoluble as Wilgy neither of these is likely to take a stand that clears them unless pushed, with Falcon being more likely and TSP less. With chop available I think just solving TSP now is the way. [VOTE: TSP] aubergine

I read the day phase and overall think the winners bracket did a good job. I think the next day phase they really need to look at who is solvable off flips, who is solvable off potential flips, and who has successfully steered away from making any readable commitments. The kill rate here means that LYLO will be on us very quickly compared to a normal game and we can't just lol along figuring people will magically get resolved.

[Alison]

The fact that Alison seems to have not read Made's ISO for spew is suss.

And I say that not to extend the hostilities but just because it is really obvious who is the most likely clearable player off of Made's day one...and while a number of people have seen that Alison is not one of them.

I'm not convinced it spews HK so /shrug

[DaisyCloud]

if Alison is supposed to be town and understood/understands the game set up and how we could easily go into lylo and mylo... then why does she keep wanting these thunderdomes?

also, why is Mac and Tim her biggest threats? why don't she care about legacy reads?

[DaisyCloud]

how come reading isos is so hard.

falcon or wilgy or Alison. or 2 of them. idk. we could have a deep wolf down here or we could have 1 still in bracket1.

in no particular order my list:

my towns: tim, gman, hk, Marmot

scums: falcon, wilgy, Kyle, Alison

idk: Tony, Mog

if we lynch any in my scum brackets and they flip town and I'm not lynched I'm looking at Tony and mog.

tim could be deep wolf. he is fully capable. but I don't think so.


tony could be frozen/anti-spew mode.


if on the off chance Alison gets lynched and flips town I'm throwing out all my notes and making new ones, obviously.

I'm honestly trying to see a townie mindset to both her posts, actions, and lack of actions. I don't see it. and it looks strongly like her teammates tried to save her. or I forgot how to count and read.

[DaisyCloud]

Alison maybe share your notes so I can get a better read/clearer read on you?

what's up with hk?

your thoughts on mog? Marmot?

what's this with Tony now?

why this beef with tim? could u share some quotes or something

what about gman?

these are vague and simple questions but I straight up don't know how to talk to you or ask u anything. and idk even if you will do this simple thing

[DrWilgy]

In a regular game Wilgy has a decent chance of just voting right and getting spewed clear even though he doesn't post reads and stuff. This game is going to arrive at a conclusion way too soon and vote scattering is just a problem so unless he changes how he plays I don't see any way he gets firmly read before LYLO, therefor he just cannot go to LYLO. Sad but true, [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Get ya vote off me ya goon.

I'm in losers. If I'm scum, hunt my teammate as I don't win alone.

Why are people wanting to waste tempo on me?

[DaisyCloud]

In a regular game Wilgy has a decent chance of just voting right and getting spewed clear even though he doesn't post reads and stuff. This game is going to arrive at a conclusion way too soon and vote scattering is just a problem so unless he changes how he plays I don't see any way he gets firmly read before LYLO, therefor he just cannot go to LYLO. Sad but true, [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Get ya vote off me ya goon.

I'm in losers. If I'm scum, hunt my teammate as I don't win alone.

Why are people wanting to waste tempo on me?

that's all u have to say? and u ask this?

how about sharing your reads? your thoughts on the Alison gonna thunderdome again like she claimed she didn't with Mac? what about who u think is suss and why? do u think all the wolves are down here?

you are playing this just like the rest of us. what are your thoughts on the flips and possible ways scum went etc?

don't be mad you are being suss and u r being voted. people have legitimate concerns about you. if your town u put yourself there thinking slanking is okay.

town can be inactive and not coast along. there is a difference. u not being helpful and memeing and stuff.. well that has its place but u gotta show your work too. your thoughts, anything. u should not expect others to solve the game for u.

if I was vig I might consider shooting u because u legit can't be mad for any votes on you. just play the game to your win condition. or is this your win condition because u r town. to shade people who found u?

[DaisyCloud]

I’m taking a break from reading the Losers Bracket, since it sort of feels like a separate game at this point, and I iso’d Made instead.

I’m glad I did, because I learned that Made had almost no interactions with anyone currently in the Winners bracket except for Marmot. I didn’t count, but Made interacted with Marmot a lot, maybe more times than he interacted anyone else. That’s interesting in light of the conversation I quoted above.

There’s a lot to be said, but I’ll start with this: Made tried to direct suspicion toward Marmot several times, and in his final posts, basically said it should have been Marmot instead of him. That makes me town read Marmot, for a few different reasons.

First, Marmot and Made had very incongruous behavior toward each other. Marmot was amicable toward Made, while Made was suspicious of Marmot. I don’t see any sense of strategy or coordination between them. If they were teammates, then they weren’t very good at it, because they went in opposite directions.

Second, why would Made use his dying breath to curse Marmot if they were teammates, especially when the mafia should want to play conservatively after losing Made? This couldn’t have been an attempt at bussing, because there was no way for Marmot to die before Made at that point.

Finally, Gavial proved that he had a good handle on this game with the way he went after Made, so his town read on Marmot holds some sway with me.

The person in our bracket who we learn the most about from Made’s flip is Marmot, so I’m very curious to hear what you all have to say about them. I think we can safely treat Katt and Marmot as our town core today. Now we just need them to help us hunt more, lol.

okay this right here. this.

gavial wanted me to take my vote off made and vote poison instead. he didn't scum read made. I did. I saw poison as town. I did my best to not get poison yeeted out. Gavial wanted poison gone. he thought we would lose if made was lynched.

Gavial flipped town and so did poison. made flipped wolf. not sure why gavial susssd poison so much but it's whatever now and people make mistakes.

gavial had a good grasp of the game and wolves took him out. I think they gambled losing Made here so that they can lose yownies who sussed them.

conclusion, we definitely had wolves or another wolf here with Made. I feel confident on this because of how things played out.

this and other things is why I think Mog could be suss.

we gotta catch them all and hopefully all the wolves are down here now.

I could be wrong in sussing mog but idk. but it's inconsistencies and such like this from mog in their other posts too.

[Timsup2nothin]

In a regular game Wilgy has a decent chance of just voting right and getting spewed clear even though he doesn't post reads and stuff. This game is going to arrive at a conclusion way too soon and vote scattering is just a problem so unless he changes how he plays I don't see any way he gets firmly read before LYLO, therefor he just cannot go to LYLO. Sad but true, [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Get ya vote off me ya goon.

I'm in losers. If I'm scum, hunt my teammate as I don't win alone.

Why are people wanting to waste tempo on me?

I have three votes. If you are woofin' I am hunting your teammate with the other two votes. The vote on you costs me genuinely nothing. That's an oddity of the setup. Instead of killing the wolfiest person and letting the nulls have another day to hopefully get sorted we are called on to mass slaughter everyone who isn't actively towny. It's...different, no question, but we have to adapt.

[G-Man]

I’m taking a break from reading the Losers Bracket, since it sort of feels like a separate game at this point, and I iso’d Made instead.

I’m glad I did, because I learned that Made had almost no interactions with anyone currently in the Winners bracket except for Marmot. I didn’t count, but Made interacted with Marmot a lot, maybe more times than he interacted anyone else. That’s interesting in light of the conversation I quoted above.

There’s a lot to be said, but I’ll start with this: Made tried to direct suspicion toward Marmot several times, and in his final posts, basically said it should have been Marmot instead of him. That makes me town read Marmot, for a few different reasons.

First, Marmot and Made had very incongruous behavior toward each other. Marmot was amicable toward Made, while Made was suspicious of Marmot. I don’t see any sense of strategy or coordination between them. If they were teammates, then they weren’t very good at it, because they went in opposite directions.

Second, why would Made use his dying breath to curse Marmot if they were teammates, especially when the mafia should want to play conservatively after losing Made? This couldn’t have been an attempt at bussing, because there was no way for Marmot to die before Made at that point.

Finally, Gavial proved that he had a good handle on this game with the way he went after Made, so his town read on Marmot holds some sway with me.

The person in our bracket who we learn the most about from Made’s flip is Marmot, so I’m very curious to hear what you all have to say about them. I think we can safely treat Katt and Marmot as our town core today. Now we just need them to help us hunt more, lol.

okay this right here. this.

gavial wanted me to take my vote off made and vote poison instead. he didn't scum read made. I did. I saw poison as town. I did my best to not get poison yeeted out. Gavial wanted poison gone. he thought we would lose if made was lynched.

Gavial flipped town and so did poison. made flipped wolf. not sure why gavial susssd poison so much but it's whatever now and people make mistakes.

gavial had a good grasp of the game and wolves took him out. I think they gambled losing Made here so that they can lose yownies who sussed them.

conclusion, we definitely had wolves or another wolf here with Made. I feel confident on this because of how things played out.

this and other things is why I think Mog could be suss.

we gotta catch them all and hopefully all the wolves are down here now.

I could be wrong in sussing mog but idk. but it's inconsistencies and such like this from mog in their other posts too.

So your comment about the wolves taking Gavial out puzzles me.

Gavial had four votes and was tied for second in the chop with Made. Since four people were getting chopped, Gavial was going to die anyway. The baddies didn’t break the tie between Gavial and Made because they were chops #2 & 3. Chop #4 was decided by the baddies, and they chose to chop Poison over Alison or Tim.

If the baddies tried to take out Gavial, we must look at who voted for Gavial: Mac, Poison, Tim, and Tony. That’s two dead civs and two living LB folk. If you think a wolf or two wolves took out Gavial via votes, then you want to have both Tim and Tony in your POE.

Is this where you are right now with your POE?

If Tim is scum, then you believe in a world where Tim bussed his teammate in the N1 vote. Is that a pill you can swallow?

People who voted for Made: Daisy, Mac, Poison, and Tim. Again, two dead civvies and two living players.

Made was sneaky and only voted for one player- Mac. If Made had a teammate in the LB, he was crafty in avoiding dropping any clues about who he wanted gone. If he didn’t have a teammate in the LB, he was crafty and avoided clearing anyone who might survive the chop by only not casting all his available votes.

[G-Man]

Spelling that all out just now made me realize how important it is for everyone to cast all of their allotted votes. In the past, vote analysis was my bread and butter, but I usually needed three days to start gleaning info and piecing things together. I thought this game would move too fast for it to be useful, but it can be. The quantity of votes in the game, coupled with the quantity of chops, makes up for the speed at which the game progresses.

I’m going to try to spreadsheet all the votes out if I can. I won’t be able to share until closer to EoD, but I will share what I can when I can.

In the meantime, test your sus theories against vote records. See if you see any daylight in there!

[Timsup2nothin]

For the record, I wasn't particularly happy about voting for Gavail. I was trying to eliminate the wolves choice tie breaker. I thought Gavail was town, and I said as much, but I thought at least some of his reads that he was really stuck on were very obviously bad so in a world of bad choices that vote seemed least bad. If I had been able to get Poison to self-pres and vote Alison today would be a much easier day.

[TonyStarkPrime]

ok thusfar i have failed to care about this game

[TonyStarkPrime]

alison said something yesterday about voting out the slanker tsp and I thought to myself "im not slanking and then clsoed the thread and walked away"

[TonyStarkPrime]

it's because iso links aren't in the intro

[G-Man]

it's because iso links aren't in the intro

See post #868 for ISO links.

[DaisyCloud]

I’m taking a break from reading the Losers Bracket, since it sort of feels like a separate game at this point, and I iso’d Made instead.

I’m glad I did, because I learned that Made had almost no interactions with anyone currently in the Winners bracket except for Marmot. I didn’t count, but Made interacted with Marmot a lot, maybe more times than he interacted anyone else. That’s interesting in light of the conversation I quoted above.

There’s a lot to be said, but I’ll start with this: Made tried to direct suspicion toward Marmot several times, and in his final posts, basically said it should have been Marmot instead of him. That makes me town read Marmot, for a few different reasons.

First, Marmot and Made had very incongruous behavior toward each other. Marmot was amicable toward Made, while Made was suspicious of Marmot. I don’t see any sense of strategy or coordination between them. If they were teammates, then they weren’t very good at it, because they went in opposite directions.

Second, why would Made use his dying breath to curse Marmot if they were teammates, especially when the mafia should want to play conservatively after losing Made? This couldn’t have been an attempt at bussing, because there was no way for Marmot to die before Made at that point.

Finally, Gavial proved that he had a good handle on this game with the way he went after Made, so his town read on Marmot holds some sway with me.

The person in our bracket who we learn the most about from Made’s flip is Marmot, so I’m very curious to hear what you all have to say about them. I think we can safely treat Katt and Marmot as our town core today. Now we just need them to help us hunt more, lol.

okay this right here. this.

gavial wanted me to take my vote off made and vote poison instead. he didn't scum read made. I did. I saw poison as town. I did my best to not get poison yeeted out. Gavial wanted poison gone. he thought we would lose if made was lynched.

Gavial flipped town and so did poison. made flipped wolf. not sure why gavial susssd poison so much but it's whatever now and people make mistakes.

gavial had a good grasp of the game and wolves took him out. I think they gambled losing Made here so that they can lose yownies who sussed them.

conclusion, we definitely had wolves or another wolf here with Made. I feel confident on this because of how things played out.

this and other things is why I think Mog could be suss.

we gotta catch them all and hopefully all the wolves are down here now.

I could be wrong in sussing mog but idk. but it's inconsistencies and such like this from mog in their other posts too.

So your comment about the wolves taking Gavial out puzzles me.

Gavial had four votes and was tied for second in the chop with Made. Since four people were getting chopped, Gavial was going to die anyway. The baddies didn’t break the tie between Gavial and Made because they were chops #2 & 3. Chop #4 was decided by the baddies, and they chose to chop Poison over Alison or Tim.

If the baddies tried to take out Gavial, we must look at who voted for Gavial: Mac, Poison, Tim, and Tony. That’s two dead civs and two living LB folk. If you think a wolf or two wolves took out Gavial via votes, then you want to have both Tim and Tony in your POE.

Is this where you are right now with your POE?

If Tim is scum, then you believe in a world where Tim bussed his teammate in the N1 vote. Is that a pill you can swallow?

People who voted for Made: Daisy, Mac, Poison, and Tim. Again, two dead civvies and two living players.

Made was sneaky and only voted for one player- Mac. If Made had a teammate in the LB, he was crafty in avoiding dropping any clues about who he wanted gone. If he didn’t have a teammate in the LB, he was crafty and avoided clearing anyone who might survive the chop by only not casting all his available votes.

hmm, okay I misread or misremebered how voting was. I thought Gavial tied with others. not made.

idk why Mac voted Gavial.

I don't think Tim is scum here. is he capable of deepwolfing? yes. is he? I don't think so.

that means Tim and Alison are faking this thunderdome and did it to get Mac. idc what Alison did and said. she created that narrative and thrn she ghosted and didn't care. and them blamed everyone for the lynches. last I checked she had the same time as everyone else. she could have easily done something , anything to get wolves yeeted out instead of townies. and if she bothered to read she could see that we all tried to find wolves. to figure out who to vote.

she doesn't plan on using her votes at all. she is doing this all again but with Tim.

so are they both wolves, tim and Alison? was this thunderdome necessary? no. she is making the game harder then it needs to be.

I don't like wim and wifom. Tim posts looks townie.

iirc I never seen Tim's scum game. supposedly he is fully capable of being like this and be wolf. I don't buy it. it's like that one game I played in mu. I correctly found a scum. I was correct in finding 2 townies, tim and another player. the other player got mislynched. iirc Tim was mislynched too. I was town and was nked. I remember being a bit salty in the spectators/dead channel. iirc town won tho.

I could be wrong.

I was wrong about Mac. but I never seen MacDougall so passive. I have seen only 1 of his scum games. MacDougall is loud and proud and in the game cracking knuckles and having fun and laughing and just doing it and. I was really wrong to vote him. @MacDougall I'm sorry.. i miss you boo ♡


this is not AtE. nor ethos or whichever one it is.