[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

[Hedgeowl]

I love that G-Man resorted to a literal wifom meme.

[Golden]

I would personally feel more comfortable if G-Man's vote was on one of the absentees such as Gumshoe or Turnip Head.

Has anyone heard from TH? I miss him and want to make sure he's alive and stuff.

I hope so too, but I did check in with him around the start point of this game and he did say he was very busy in RL so... I'm hoping it is just that. As noted, he did vanish from the last two games he played too... I am getting the feeling he really wants to play but is just finding he can't.

[Golden]

Oh, so scotty is one-upping G-Man now - an image saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing' that he fails to post correctly because he has no idea what he is doing.

(tip for the technically unsavvy Scotty - I always push 'preview' when I'm posting images or videos before pushing submit, in case I've stuffed it up).

[Golden]

Heiots is lurking, she should sub in

[G-Man]

Oh, so scotty is one-upping G-Man now - an image saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing' that he fails to post correctly because he has no idea what he is doing.

(tip for the technically unsavvy Scotty - I always push 'preview' when I'm posting images or videos before pushing submit, in case I've stuffed it up).

You don't know how tempted I am to post a picture of myself with a bottle of wine in front of me. That or another video of me singing.

[Epignosis]

Oh, so scotty is one-upping G-Man now - an image saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing' that he fails to post correctly because he has no idea what he is doing.

(tip for the technically unsavvy Scotty - I always push 'preview' when I'm posting images or videos before pushing submit, in case I've stuffed it up).

You don't know how tempted I am to post a picture of myself with a bottle of wine in front of me. That or another video of me singing.

I made an interesting discovery this afternoon.

I was helping my parents move some things, and came across their vinyl collection (not really large enough to be called a "collection," but there we are). My dad's big into classic rock and country, so there's some Boston, Doobie Brothers, Eagles, and that one Coven album with the imp playing the violin. My mom was more into folk and the golden oldies, so among hers I find John Denver, The Beach Boys, and a Lesley Gore 45 (bet you can guess which one).

Curiously, however, there was one record my parents both denied owning. Yet there it was.

The album in question was recorded by a Mr. E. P. Nosisberg between the years 1959 and 1961. The liner notes indicated that these sessions involved lesser known talents (but talents all the same) such as bassist Virgil Stanford Thompkins I, and percussionist Wilford Allen Varney.

Mom and dad didn't mind at all when I asked if I could take the record home and listen to it. They don't listen to much music anymore and don't even have a turntable these days. Given the nature of the songs listed on the sleeve, I thought it would be of interest to those who signed up here (or are thinking of signing up) if I held the mic up to my speakers, punched record, and let us all find out what this dusty relic had to offer.

The opening number is a familiar Gershwin tune, performed many times by no less than Billie Holiday and Nina Simone. Let's have a listen.

[Hedgeowl]

Well, that was an easier catch-up than expected. Thanks!

So my current understanding is that Gman doesnt expect to die this lynch. We dont know if someone else will though if thats accurate?

I guess we will find out soon enough.

[G-Man]

[Dom]

Act One, Scene Five

ENTER G-MAN

G-MAN: You know why I had no address for three months? I stole a suit in Kansas City and I was jailed. I stole myself out of every good job since high school. And I never got anywhere because you blew me so full of hot air I could never stand taking orders from anybody! That's whose fault it is! It's goddamn time you heard that! I had to be boss big shot in two weeks, and I'm through with it! Willy! I ran down eleven flights with a pen in my hand today. And suddenly I stopped, you hear me? And in the middle of that office building, do you hear this? I stopped in the middle of that building and I saw - the sky. I saw the things that I love in the world. The work and the food and the time to sit and smoke. And I looked at the pen and said to myself, what the hell am I grabbing this for? Why am I trying to become what I don't want to be? What am I doing in an office, making a contemptuous, begging fool of myself, when all I want is out there, waiting for me the minute I say I know who I am! Why can't I say that, Willy? Pop! I'm a dime a dozen, and so are you! I am not a leader of men, Willy, and neither are you. You were never anything but a hard-working drummer who landed in the ash-can like all the rest of them! I'm one dollar an hour, Willy! I tried seven states and couldn't raise it! A buck an hour! Do you gather my meaning? I'm not bringing home any prizes any more, and you're going to stop waiting for me to bring them home! Pop, I'm nothing! I'm nothing, Pop. Can't you understand that? There's no spite in it any more. I'm just what I am, that's all. Will you let me go, for Christ's sake? Will you take that phoney dream and burn it before something happens?

ENTER ENSEMBLE

THE ENSEMBLE HANGS G-MAN

G-Man has been lynched. He was Cats.
You have 24 hours to get your PMs in.

[Dom]

Why is no one dying? (votes are changeable)

Poll ended at Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:43 pm


Bass The Clever
0
No votes
FZ.
0
No votes
Black Rock
0
No votes
Bullzeye
1
Bullzeye (19) 5%
Cobalt
0
No votes
Devin
0
No votes
DFaraday
0
No votes
Canucklehead
0
No votes
DREAM
0
No votes
Fingersplints
0
No votes
Golden
0
No votes
Gumshoe
2
Scotty (3), Sloonei (22) 9%
Hedgeowl
0
No votes
MetalMarsh89
1
Cobalt (15) 5%
Epignosis 2.0
0
No votes
Neverwhere
0
No votes
nijuukyugou
0
No votes
Nutella
0
No votes
Scotty
0
No votes
sig
0
No votes
Sloonei
0
No votes
Timmer
0
No votes
TinyBubbles
2
Hedgeowl (18), G-Man (21) 9%
Turnip Head
1
Metalmarsh89 (2) 5%
G Man
13
Golden (4), Canucklehead (5), Black Rock (6), DFaraday (8), timmer (9), nutella (10), fingersplints (11), Epignosis (12), FZ. (13), Neverwhere (14), TinyBubbles (16), nijuukyugou (17), Bass_the_Clever (20) 59%
Dom (host / non)
2
Dom (1), juliets (7) 9%
Total votes : 22

[Sloonei]

Without any context, "He was Cats" is one of the most delightful sentences I've ever seen. also woohoo good job etc.

Hello friends. I've not been idle in my silence. Be prepared for some massive posts.

[Sloonei]

Also, sorry G-man. You got put into an awful situation here and I feel your pain. Thanks for having fun with it, at least, I hope.

[G-Man]

Are you happy now?

[Scotty]

Lol Gman giant troll. Just like Cats. Wow we're doing terrific. Can we go perfect?
Welcome back, Sloonei!
Also, nights are by far the best time for discussion, what with this silencing thing on big talkers.

[Scotty]

Also I love that speech, Dom. It was my college audition monologue, that.

[Sloonei]

Both scum teams are now down to 2 members apiece, barring possible recruitment

Lloyd Webber – Baddie Team 1 (4 Roles)
Win Condition: Outnumber the civilians and eliminate Team Wildhorn and any other opposition, if it exists.
Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber
The Phantom of the Opera – The Phantom of the Opera is there, inside my mind.
Starlight Express - Starlight express, answer me yes
Cats - Memory, all alone in the moonlight

Wildhorn – Baddie Team 2 (3 Roles)
Win Condition: Outnumber the civilians and eliminate Team Lloyd Weber and any other opposition, if it exists.
Frank Wildhorn
Jekyll & Hyde - If I could reach you, if I could guide and teach you
Bonnie and Clyde – I’d rather breathe in life than dusty air.

Independents (4 Roles)
Andrew Lippa – And we were having a wild, wild party!
Stephen Schwartz – I’ve gotta be someone who lives all of his life in superlatives.
Oscar Hammerstein II – Some enchanted evening, you may find a stranger.
Richard Rodgers –If I loved you, time and again, I would try to say all I'd want you to know

[Sloonei]

I've spent a big chunk of the last two days compiling my reads on every player in the game, going down the list alphabetically. I got done with nijuu right before the deadline but now my momentum has kinda fallen off and I need to take a bit of a break, which stinks because Nutella is up next and she was one of my top suspects going into this (hence the vote I put on her early in the day). I'll get back to her later, as well as Scotty, timmer, TinyBubbles, and Turnip Head. Everyone else is done. I'm gonna break it up into a few posts because I feel like having one massively long post would be unappealing and everyone would hate me even more.

I do not expect anyone to read all of this (we're approaching 40 pages in my Word doc here), but I would at least hope that you all read what I have to say about yourselves, and maybe a few of your suspects/people you've been having trouble reading. My hope with this exercise is to generate as much content and discussion as we can all manage. So um:

Bass
I’ve offered the same analysis of Bass a couple of times already with regards to his early play, but to reiterate: I initially had him a town read because he seemed much more involved in the game than he did the one other time I’ve played with him (Economics), a game in which he was scum. His activity can be seen in posts like the following:

Spoiler: show

Wow this game has blown up.
Mp why don't you want to answer Epi question about voting newbies?

I want to lynch Long Con. That's where my Day 1 vote will be going as of right now.

Why? If you posted it already can you post a link.

I want to lynch Long Con. That's where my Day 1 vote will be going as of right now.

Why? If you posted it already can you post a link.

It's Day 0. Long Con has six posts. I'm not posting a link for you. Read his posts and draw your own conclusion. Then tell me if you find anything suspicious.

If you don't, then I'll gladly share what I found.

Ok I read the six post, but I would still like to know what you find suspicious.
Is it because there are only six post, 3 of which are fluff posts?
Is it the MP/Epi shoving match post?

In these posts he is consistently asking questions which seem to be clearly motivated toward catching bad guys, even if he’s not providing a whole lot of his own original content. I’ve got no problem with that in an early game situation. That last post in particular has been used by splints (and possibly others, but I don’t remember) in a case against Bass because it looks like he was unwilling to commit to any possible reads on LC at the time. But I saw the post as Bass merely framing his own early suspicions in the forms of questions because, I dunno, that’s just what he was doing.

However, since the early activity Bass has fallen completely off the radar and I’ve been forced to second guess my entire read, and I’ve been growing increasingly wary of him. Splints’ interpretation of that post makes more sense to me now than it originally did. I’ve seen splints and a few others point to this post as being particularly fishy:

Spoiler: show

Who are your suspects today Bass?

My top suspect is still cobalt. When I was doing my six page catch up I got a bad vibe from LC when he switched his vote after saying he wasnt going to be around. Today LC is starting to read more normal to me, so I have him in a gray area. The problem i'm having is trying to remember what mafia LC looks like. I know he was Indy in RR but I think the only game I have seen him be bad in was my first mafia game ever Supernatural Mafia on Rev. I got a slight ping from DF when he made the comment about me not saying anything because I think this is the most I have ever posted in a game this early. I felt like he is skipping over stuff and I tend to think baddies skim and skip stuff because they arent really worried about catching any mafia.

There are a lot of people who I would like to hear more from when they get caught up.

Something that stands out to me now on my most recent reread of Bass’s posts is that he hardly makes any reference to Long Con on Day 1, but does spend a good deal of time discussing SVS and Cobalt. On Day 2 he starts to say there’s something suspicious about LC, but he doesn’t know what it is. In this post here, he spends an awful long time essentially saying nothing other than that he doesn’t know how to read Long Con. I don’t necessarily see this as an indication that they’re scum partners, though I’m also not ruling out the possibility, rather I have an easier time seeing this as potentially being two scum players on opposite teams. Bass, as scum, was trying to fabricate a read on a player (LC) who was widely suspected to give himself reason to hop on the bandwagon when it inevitably started to form later on.

I'd really like to get a few people's views on Black Rock.

I think Black Rock has been super quiet and said just enough just to get by. I will be keeping my eye on her.

This newfound suspicion of BR comes shortly after BR herself expressed suspicion in Bass. If you look at it sequentially in Bass’s post history it reads as an explicit OMGUS. He makes no mention of BR, that I’ve noticed, in any posts prior to her stating suspicion of him, and then she’s suddenly someone to “keep an eye on.” I would hesitate to call this scummy, however, as I have often seen a town player grow suspicious of somebody else for suspecting them, and I think it can often be a successful line of casing. We’ll see how the read progresses from here.

Bass threw a self-vote on himself the other day, citing internet trouble as his reason for doing so. I don’t know what to make of this. I have a tough time seeing a scum being so quick to resign his fate/pull a gambit like that, but then maybe either one of those things is the case. Let’s start circling the endless drain of WIFOM.

Bass responded to the accusation that all of his suspicions have just been parroted from other people here:

Spoiler: show

If anyone has anything to ask me pleasse do I will be around most of the day.

how do you respond to the assertion others have made that all the reads you've expressed have just been the thread's popular opinion?

I can't help thats who I think is bad. I understand why it could look bad but I am trying to voice my opinions more this game. Would it be better if I suspected someone who people thought was civ and said "oh it's just a gut feeling." I have been trying to use thread evidence.

It’s not a particularly strong defense, but if he’s being honest I don’t know how much else he could say. However, his posts since Day 1 have been very scant and I’m going to need to start seeing a lot more content from Bass until I can label him as anything close to a town read.
Questions for Bass: Recently you’ve named Black Rock and Nutella as suspects. How do you feel about those cases now? And who else are you suspicious of beside them? Give me some Gun-to-head reads if you can’t come up with anyone else.
Birdwithteeth/FZ.
Birdwithteeth’s post history is a null read. I am leaning slightly town on FZ’s posts. Her second post after joining the game immediately suggests she made a sincere effort to get caught up and start tossing around accusations as quickly as she could, which I like. Then she promptly called out G-man for his picture posts and continued asking solid questions and engaging directly in discussion:

Spoiler: show

Before I continue to read back on day 1, can Cobalt and LC please sum up why they think the other is bad, and how strongly they feel about it, or at least point me to a post where they did that?

linki: An added question for G-man: Are you planning to catch up at all, or is this how you're going to play the entire game?

Another question I'd like to ask the new people or whoever knows:

Who among the players knew each other from other sites? For example, does anyone know how Cobalt plays, or Tiny bubbles, Scotty etc'?

She does kind of linger on the LC/Cobalt thing for a bit, but that’s not a hugely alarming thing to me. It was a major part of the Day 1 proceedings and a lot of it was unclear because of the way it played out, so FZ has plenty of reason to be asking these questions.

Spoiler: show

Good result! I hope. What has me worried is in fact the hooded people. Is it possible that the mafia recruited or corrupted Sloonei? I remember reading about one of the night 0 PMs having something to do with corruption.

The only one who's expressed suspicions of Nutella, that I can recall, is me, and I didn't write that song.
It was a fun song, and I still think Nutella is flying under the radar, but not enough to get a vote just for that song. Maybe it was done just to cause chaos

Where did Timmer disappear to? He's been much less involved in the last day. I'm worried. I guess the show business isn't for everyone :P

This is one of the few posts in FZ’s history that I could see somebody pointing to as suspicious, but I would not agree. She mentions a theory that I was possibly recruited by one of the scum teams on the night I was targeted to be killed, which could be seen as an effort to get me, the “most trusted” player, lynched. But I see as honest skepticism, as I mentioned earlier, and like that FZ was right on top of it.
Another post that I found mildly suspicious:

Spoiler: show

I think G-man is the strongest candidate for a baddie. I completely agree with Epig that it's a striking contrast form his biblical mafia game.

That said, I don't care how many times you refute it Epig, you've been posting very differently than your first day style. It's disconcerting and I'm not sure what to make of it. But you come off much less civvie like than you did before you were NK.

Timmer, I get why you didn't get my reasons for changing my opinion of you, but I had my reasons. I'm glad to see you here again and contributing to the discussion, but it is what it is.


MM, I'm not really sure I get why you feel so strongly about LC, so an explanation would be great.

I see what people are saying when it comes to LC not really building cases and going with the crowd, but a. When you're being accused from day 1 so strongly, it's really hard to do that, and b. last game I played with him, he was very bad, but he was the most helpful player in the game, and he fooled us all. I don't see that now. There could be a few reasons for this: one is that he's not bad. The others are that he is and he decided to change tactics, or that he's too overwhelmed by the accusations to put up a good front. But because of the difference in behaviour from his last baddie game, I'm hesitant.

She’s (admittedly) hesitant to hop on board the LC wagon. This sort of thing can’t possibly be overlooked in the aftermath of a scum lynch, but as it’s really the only thing in here that has me even mildly suspicious of FZ, and because she has clearly stated reasons for her hesitance that seem perfectly in line with her general style of play in this game, I am not too too worried about it right now.
Her whole post history looks like that of a very attentive and inquisitive townie. In the interest of conserving precious space, I’ll refrain from drawing out too many posts from her. Instead, if anyone wants to look into it themselves, I’d say just look at her posts and notice the high volume of direct and open questions she’s been asking. It reminds me a lot of a certain paprika on Day 1. I like everything about FZ’s post history and if she’s scum she’s playing a glorious game right now.
So far some of her stronger suspicious have been G-man, of course, along with fingersplints, nutella, and maybe Epignosis, and has also stated that she does not see the cases against Bass or BR, as well as a lot of other observations. I’d like to see some updated reads from FZ, as it seems there’s not been much progress today with everyone just dumping their votes on G-man.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Black Rock

Spoiler: show

I'm getting a weird vibe from LC and I can't really put my finger on it. It's like he doesn't seem LCish to me. But maybe that's because I haven't really played with him in a while (not counting Pilate which was decidedly not his usual style) and I may be projecting misremembered conceptions of his style, or maybe it's because he's been busy IRL, idk there's just been something nagging at the back of my head about all his posts so far that just feels not quite right. Obviously he's particularly on the defensive right now so maybe I am reading too much into how he's acting under pressure.

Nice sandwich truck! Needs some avocado though.


@Scotty what evidence do you see that there could be two kills? We don't seem to know anything about the roles or the baddie teams really, unless I'm missing something... Typically when there are two teams they kill on alternate nights (I guess you're new to the site and might not have realized that). Though it certainly could be the case that two or more roles/teams kill on the same night. There could be a civ ninja or an indie SK.


Btw I am voting to read the book.

If you have any sandwiches suggestions I am open. My staff might kill me if I make my menu any bigger though.

I am so sorry about my lack of communication day 1. I tried to post a couple of times. I forgot to press submit once and came back 12 hours later to see my post sitting there and then it got caught up in linkitis and then I failed. That's what I get for rushing about. My schedule is a lot more open for the next couple of weeks so I will have time for Mafia.

I would have likely voted for Cobalt in the lynch. I'm not used to his style but I find it hard to take his suspicions seriously. I hadn't really suspected SVS, if I had seen her self vote I would have suspected her less, I have seen her do that recently and it wasn't a baddie mood. I haven't read the whole lead up to lynch yet but if she self voted she was likely frustrated, that's a shame.

Bass seems more involved this game. I think somewhere back there he was pointing at SVS for style change while he himself seems to be going through a transition. I am putting him on my watch list.

I will say (and this is all I'm saying about LC at this time) he was telling the truth. We got our asses handed to us last night. The only time we didn't have 50 people lined up was when we closed. We had about 10 minutes of heavy downpour and they still stood in line.

I'm mostly going by memory of what I have read the past two days so if I got some things wrong I am sorry...

I think Golden brought up Hedgeowl and I do what to look more into what he was saying there and where it went from there. I will be looking more seriously at Cobalt and I will read LC. I also want to look an nutella and TH. nutella because some of her earlier day 1 posts seemed too agreeable and TH because.

This is BR’s first substantial post and there’s quite a bit here to dissect. She has received some attention for that first bit about forgetting to submit a post she’d written up and whatnot. I do not find that in itself suspicious, but what I do not like is the way she seems to have felt the need to excuse herself for lack of participation. I often feel that preemptive defensiveness like that is a scumtell, but it could just be a genuine apology. She then dives into sharing a bunch of reads, which is nice and makes the supposed apology seem more sincere, at least.
- “Would have voted for Cobalt”
- Bass seems different, worth watching
- LC was telling the truth about his thing, but offers nothing about a read on him (I’m generally giving BR a pass when it comes to LC, I must say)
- Wants to look more closely at/feeling vaguely suspicious of Hedgeowl, Nutella, Turnip Head
When I asked her for suspects later, the names she mentioned were Cobalt and Bass:

Spoiler: show

I have some suspicion of Cobalt, he is new to me but he seems to be basing his LC suspicion on a different game and some things he says seem off.

I'm watching Bass as well.

Sorry everyone for not voting I got super drunk yesterday and forgot. I would have voted Cobalt he never addressed any of the points he made he commented on one thing I said and I think he was wrong about what he commented on, but I will have to go back and look to make sure.

Who would you say are the next scummiest players ever after Cobalt?

I just caught up, but when I was reading I kept getting this bad vibe from LC I want to go over all his post like I did with Cobalt and get a better read on him.

This post in particular seems like he's trying to fit in. Just didn't seem right.

Otherwise I have to take the time to go back and read, which I haven't done yet but I plan on doing that when the kids go to bed.

These cases are both believable and I see no reason to believe that they’re fabricated in any way, though there’s no reason to give a player a pass for actively scum hunting in this game, as I’ve mentioned a few times already, because even the baddies are trying to catch baddies. It could be nitpicking, but I am a bit curious as to why her list suddenly became narrower in this post. She makes no mention of Turnip Head, for instance, who she seemed to be gunning for a little bit early on.

Spoiler: show

Hey BR, not going to ask your view on LC but do you feel like otherwise you are beginning to get a sense of general reads on people outside of TH and bass?

I have several people on my not so naughty list. I haven't seen a reason to mention them because I don't suspect them.

I do however believe Gman should be lynched, as well as Bass. I think Gman should probably go first.

I however don't believe LC killed Epignosis. It's not his style. I have been trying to stay out of the whole LC thing though.

I want to hear enough out of TH to believe him to be good. (I know you technically didn't want to hear about TH and Bass but I don't want them to think I forgot about them.)

I'm not seeing what FZ is seeing in Splints.

Not sure what to make of you yet Golden. I always lean civ so I have put you in neutral to be on the safe side.

I am a personal reader so these newer guys to me

More reads! G-man and Bass seem to be her top two suspects, and she’s been on Bass more than anyone from the very beginning. I could go either way on this, but I’m beginning to feel like there’s something to her case. I’d prefer to lynch Bass before Black Rock, if we’re going to go after either of them.
Still hounding the silent (and apparently absent) Turnip Head, and she also indirectly suggests she’s got a town read on splints, as well as a neutral read on Golden.
Other than that, she’s made a number of posts getting on Metalmarsh’s back for not being active enough this game, which I like as it suggests (to me) that she is committed to catching scum and will prod anyone who she perceives to be not working hard enough at it. That said, she hasn’t contributed a ton of posts yet, and I’d like to hear a lot more from her. She’s a neutral read for now. I’d like to know who her next suspect is after Bass (assuming G-man is dead by the time I get to post this).
So that’s my question for BR. Who’s your #2 suspect? And #s 3,4,5,etc. if you feel like going that far.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bullzeye
Null/Neutral read. I'm glad he's returned to us and look forward to hearing from him eventually.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cobalt
Cobalt’s Day 1 & 2 behavior made him everyone’s top suspect, but then he threw off most of the suspicion by surviving the lynch. That he was ultimately right about Long Con suggests that the two of them were at least not teammates, though that doesn’t really say anything about Cobalt’s alignment. I don’t think the role he seems to have would belong to a scum player, so that has me feeling pretty decent about him, though I could definitely see an Indie role with lynch protection.
Since he survived that lynch, however, he’s offered us next to nothing and has seemed almost defiant in his refusal to play the game. The only non-LC read he’s offered was this completely vague scum read on Black Rock (as well as occasionally referring to me as “scumnei”):

Spoiler: show

omfg me and LC are not teammates i want him SPIT ROASTED.

lynch him and then lynch me for all I give a negative fuck

what are your thoughts on everything and everyone?

SCUMMY

more later.

Do you have any real opinions on other players?

Yiss. Scum Rock.

I'll elaborate when I get home from work.

Other than that, he’s continually promised us more content but has thus far failed to deliver.
I don’t know where to place Cobalt on my rainbow. He’s a moderate not-scum read, but I could see him being either Indie or town right now.
My question for Cobalt is: Can you tell us anything?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Devin the Omniscient
Has not posted since Day 1. Here’s my earlier analysis, which still stands:

Devin
I was surprised to see he has 20 posts, but they're all from early in the game (his latest post is on page 14). I recall MP passing along an excuse for absence from him, but that's not gonna exonerate him by any means. Most of his posts center around the "Day 1 truce" thing which he started. I do not take his posts seriously here, and it's pretty clear he was joking. I get no indication about his alignment in these early posts, but I thought the ease and composure with which he explained himself looked good (or at least better than MP). This is the closest thing he's made to a substantive post in this game, but it's so early and so preliminary that I can't really make anything of it. Definitely need Devin to start contributing soon.

Neutral.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DFaraday
I am feeling less good about DFaraday than I was in my earlier analysis. I initially brushed him off as a slight town read because he at least seemed like he was trying to make contributions with all of his posts, but as I look back I see a lot of behavior that is easy for scum to fake.

Spoiler: show

My pm mentioned Sondheim, Brown, Schwartz, and Hammerstein together. It also repeated "lyricist" and "3/4" over and over. I think it may be Schwartz's role and I don't think he's a threat to us but I obviously can't be certain.

Lyricist could apply to any of those names. And 3/4 is a time signature indicative of a waltz. Mine was something about "revived" and "most overrated". I hope that's not a shot at The King and I.

I do think it was odd that Hedge brought up bandwagons for no particular reason. I think it could be to preemptively establish herself as looking better if one player does take a lot of votes, while also not really committing to anything herself.

Epi is reading as standard throw-everything-at-the-wall Epi to me, and LC hasn't done anything to ping me either. I don't agree with Epi that LC was using inflammatory language or trying to avoid offering his thoughts. He's done quite a lot of offering that I can see.

SVS is also on my radar for how strongly she reacted to the "interesting" thing. I doubt anyone will get lynched because they used an empty term like "interesting" or such, so her reaction towards Epi seemed misplaced.

This is an early example, which may be an excuse, but none of the reads he expresses here are really that strong at all. They’re all fairly easy things that somebody could have picked up just glancing at the thread.

Spoiler: show

Let's all pretend none of Cobalt, SVS, or Long Con are available to be lynched today. Who do we all vote for then?

*Whom

TB is on my radar with her eagerness to let us know she's a civ. Apparently she's done this before, but it's still pingy to me.

But for now I think I'm going to *vote SVS*. I know she definitely could manipulate voters' sentiments if she wanted to, and I think that could have happened as early as the comments about Epi's "interesting" speech.

Same thing, and this time he also mentions Bubbles. I should not keep accusing anyone who accuses her, but I can’t help but be wary of anyone who hopped on that case against her simply because of how easy it was to do. In DFaraday’s defense, he does back off the Bubbles case in this post, and I like the rest of what he says there, though it remains not-entirely-convincing. To reiterate, there’s nothing wrong with these posts if DFaraday is a townie. My issue with them is that a lot of his reads and the content of his posts are very easy things to fake for a scum player.

Spoiler: show

I've fallen behind over the last day, I need to catch up. Going off of my cursory glance so far, I'm thinking Golden/LC is civ/civ. Golden, at least, is pretty unlikely to be on one of the baddie teams.

For now I'll put my vote back on TB, since I know I'm not actually going to vote for Cobalt today.

And also, I agree with Nutella that not reading the thread and not making cases are two different things. One is lazy, one can be lazy or a strategy.

Gives a town read on Long Con and puts a vote on TinyBubbles. Neither of these things look good on the surface, but they’re not entirely unbelievable things for a townie to do. He would later put his vote on G-man instead of Bubbles, and has put it back on him today (now yesterday), so there’s not really any new content to dig through, which is concerning.
DFaraday has moved down on my list and is now a very slight scum read. His 24 posts don’t contain as much content as I had originally thought and there’s nothing that strongly indicates townie behavior in here.
Question for DFaraday: I’ve seen you mention fingersplints in a couple of posts. What is your read on her? Could you elaborate? Also any other reads you have at this time would be helpful.
 

[Sloonei]

Dragon D Luffy/Canucklehead
I’ve had Canuck as a moderate town read since she entered the game and made her first big post. She seemed like one of the only players who was willing to look beyond the main couple of suspects the first couple of days and her reads seemed honest and refreshing.
She rejected my efforts to get everyone to vote early on Day 3 when votes were changeable , and I liked her explanation here:

Spoiler: show

Sloonei, why the hard push for the early votes? Does omeone on your team have a "Stop the Day Early" power?

no. votes are changeable. i want to take advantage of that by having everyone vote for their top suspect early and not worry about what the poll results might be. it will give us a very clear indiciation of what people think and who the top suspects are. Do you think this strategy is beneficial?

The chageability of votes has nothing to do with my accusation. I think stating suspicions in the thread gives us the same information, without the threat of someone (your teammate, methinks) swooping in while people are futzing around with "hypothetical" votes and ending the day when the poll is in a beneficial position for them.


So, no. I do not think this strategy is beneficial.

What if one of my teammates is a top suspect? We can't end the day then, we'll be lynching one of our own!
have you allowed yourself to entertain the idea that I might not be bad?

Oh noes! I hadn't thought of that! My idea must be totally wrong! I'm such a dumdum....

Yeah, I've entertained the idea that you're not bad, but I didn't enjoy it much so I switched it off.

Seriously, though. Stop Day powers are fairly common in games here, and iirc skew towards being baddie powers (though I have seen civ ones). Early voting, and "hypothetically voting for people except for the top two suspects", are strategies that do not seem civ-friendly in a word where such a power might be in play. So even if you're not bad, I think this strategy adds nothing and is potentially dangerous. So I'm against early votes and hypothetical votes and "warning" votes unless and until we're certain that there's not going to be any baddies taking advantage of people feeling a little freer with their vote.

My strategy was/is just a characteristic of the community I come from, and her rejection of it is similarly a reflection of the style she’s used to (in this community, I assume). While I wholeheartedly disagree with her , I can at least understand why Canuck and others feel so different than I do on things like this. Her answers here seem like honest ones.

Some Day 2 reads:

Spoiler: show

I wouldn't vote for anyone right now, because it's early in the day and I only vote early when I'm not going to be around for the deadline and have the foresight to do so (spoiler: this happens very rarely because I am a person uniquely lacking in foresight).

The people I need to think more about/re-read are BR, hedgeowl, TB, TH, Bullz, and bass. BR and TB because others have brought up suspicions on them that I didn't pick up on myself, but are worthy of further thought. hedgie because there's been very little response from her after some not-insignificant suspicion of her yesterday (or maybe Day 1? can't remember) and that pings me. Bullz and bass because they are so blendy that I only knew they were playing by looking at the poll.

None of these are strong reads, but that’s kind of the point of the post. She’s expressing an intent to look more closely at Black Rock, Hedgeowl, TinyBubbles, Turnup Head, Bullzeye, and Bass. I’d like to know what, if anything, has become of these efforts.

Spoiler: show

In this particular gunfight, I think I have to take the unpopular position and say that if only ONE of LC/Golden is civ, I happen to think it's more likely to be LC. I think it's possible that both are civ, and possible (but less likely, I think) that both are mafia. But who knows? Both these dudes can out mafia me, but based on the tone of their posts (LC seems sincere, Golden less so) and based on my pre-existing suspicion of Golden (that he was much more background/peripheral/commenting but not leading in the early stages, and suddenly flipped a switch with the TGG/G-Man thing.....which I actually think *migh* have some merit, but could also just be opportunistic).....I'm much more likely to vote Golden at this point than I am to vote LC.

But who I'm acctually going to vote for is TB, because she wants out. Happy to oblige there.

But then this post looks bad all around, on the surface. Golden is more scummy than Long Con? Even though we’ve since lynched Long Con and found out he was scum, I’d like an explanation from Canucklehead on this one. Why is/was Golden a suspect, and why was Long Con a civ read?
And then she votes for TinyBubbles because Bubbles had already voted for herself. I expressed my dislike for this bandwagon/gameplay at the time and it still stands. However, this does not seem at all inconsistent with Canuck’s general behavior in the thread, which has seemed otherwise to be pretty strongly town to me.

Spoiler: show

I will say this to everyone not named LC as well.

I don't expect any of you to read the whole back and forth between LC and I. You can if you want. I know that by having such a feud, you lose any influence you might have even by succinctly explaining why you think the other is bad.

However, I'm really not a fan of 'it's probably civ on civ' comments because they usually are indicative of someone who really hasn't wanted to read any of the substance of the feud and so I don't think such posts are informed points of view.

I have read the entire feud thus far. As an objective outsider, my view of it is actually potentially more "informed" than yours. I think reading the exchange as "possibly civ-on-civ" is a perfectly valid reading, since most of what we're reading seems to be two egos clashing and two individuals insisting on being "right" and refusing to accept basic premises of the other's argument, rather than *roles* interacting. The level of nitpicking, and refusal to concede anything on either side is, imho, no way indicative of alignment, and therefore it is entirely possible for both of you to be civs.
From my vantage point, I am able to see where each of you is coming from regarding your basic issues of contention. Because I can see each of your sides as possible, I am therefore able to see each of you as genuine. This particular argument is not a zero-sum game, in which one must be bad so the other can be right. I honestly think (and I say this in love and admiration of both of your incredible mafia personalities) that you each are in your own ways unable to see through your need to be "right" about the apparent fallacies of the other.

Solid analysis of the LC/Golden feud. I also like that she’s keeping such a level head about all this. I would think scum would try to take a stance and pounce on at least one of the two of them and push for a lynch, but Canuck seemed to be one of the few people willing to listen and dissect the whole exchange with an open mind. More townie points for the Canadian.
Canucklehead remains a fairly strong town read to me, but I’d like to hear more from her. After G-man is lynched, who do you think you’ll be voting for next/tomorrow? Why?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DREAM
N/A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fingersplints
splints has a fairly substantial 36 posts at the time I am typing this, but she’s about as neutral as they come. She’s offered a few reads (most notably on Bass) but nothing too extensive.
I can see where FZ was coming from was coming from with regards to splints’ vote for sig, but I also can see what appears to be a clear line of thought from splints leading up to the vote.
There are a few of the classic telltale signs of scumminess in splints’ posts, like waffling/fence-sitting, as seen in posts like these:

Spoiler: show

So I've been reading from the beginning. I think that of LC vs Cobalt. Cobalt looks worse to me, but I am not sure I am suspicious of either yet earlier. I think that it is understandable for him to be a bit wary of LC because of the 90's game on JTM, but it seemed pretty extreme. Now it seems to be a joke

Other than Nutella, what do people think of TH?

I don't have any read on him. I would agree with your assessment that he is usually more quiet as a baddie, but not usually this quiet.

But she’s also taking a few definitive stances on players (Scum read on Bass, town on Black Rock, not scum on TinyBubbles), and I’d like to see a lot more of this from her. If I was going to select one player to do a “Gun-to-head” exercise with in this game, it would definitely be splints. She’s only given us a small handful of reads in this game, and that’s a big mark against her imo. The biggest, really.

Spoiler: show

Great result!

If I had to choose a voter for Sig from his own team, it would be Splints. I read back through the last hours before the post, and she seemed the one leaving the options open. She talked about 3 potential candidates for a vote: Bass, Bubbles and Sig, threw in some few thoughts why Sig would be a good option, but kept her vote until it was basically a done deal. In my eyes, she was leaving open options and was even talking more about Bass, maybe to get people on board, and when nothing changed, she placed the vote on Sig. This to me, was a classic baddie move. Just wanted to get it out there.

The thing about this being a "classic baddie move" is that it is also what civvies do. Discuss their top suspects in the thread and decide who to vote.
I agree the lynch was basically a done deal, but not quite as the day wasn't finished when I voted and it was still fairly close (plus changeable votes).
I don't expect to be in the clear with my vote by any means, but I don't see why FZ finds it so suspicious. She is correct about one thing though. I absolutely would have liked people to get on board with a bass vote because I think he is a baddie. I think his lynch would also have given us a baddie. I'm fairly confident I will be voting either him or Gman today.

I like parts of this post from splints and dislike other parts. What she defines as “discussing [her] top suspects” amounts to one line about sig where her full analysis is “the sig case is pretty good.” In addition, the part where she says she “doesn’t see why FZ finds it so suspicious” seems a bit dishonest and perhaps misleading. I don’t like this line of defense and I see it as a player trying to dismiss a suspicion rather than attack it or go after it aggressively.
After all this splints remains a largely neutral read, but if I were forced to pick a side I’d probably have her as a slight mafia read. This is because she’s provided very little content outside of her couple of significant reads. So my questions for fingersplints are very vague/general.
Who, besides Bass, are you suspicious of and why? The “why” is more important than the “who” in this case. I’m looking for content out of you, splints. Also, have your feelings about Black Rock changed at all?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Golden
I’ve had Golden as a town read for most of the game, but I’ve been unwilling to move him past the “moderate” section of my imaginary rainbow because I’ve seen too many games where somebody plays the way Golden is playing and dupes everyone to pull off a scum victory. He’s the only player who’s giving me a run for my money in the all-important Highest Post Count competition and in my experience (albeit on a different site with all different players) there’s plenty of precedent for one of the thread’s top posters/driving forces to be a bad guy. However, this does not mean I have Golden as a scum read and, in fact, this exercise has only made me feel even better about him. That said, I’ve approached my casing of Golden a bit differently than everybody else. If I were to sift through all of his posts and pull out everything he’s said that’s given me a townie vibe then I’d be here all day and no one would even want to read what I have to say. So instead I tried to focus this case solely on the posts Golden has made which gave me bad vibes about him. He’s a town read but I am highly paranoid about him right now and I’d like to address that paranoia directly. So let’s begin:

Spoiler: show

Yes, TH, that's exactly what I was trying to do. I felt like Hedgeowl's statement was definitely something that could be referred back to later to defend LC or SVS, and I didn't want to allow it to be used that way. I could definitely see a scenario where Hedgeowl is in a team with LC or SVS and was hoping to have some else run with her comment and imply that LC or SVS were being bandwagoned.

Also, her response question 'Did I say that?' - was a noteworthy response to me.

This early case against Hedgeowl reads as the exact sort of behavior Golden is cautioning against here. I did not get the same impression from Hedgeowl’s early comment about bandwagons, and the way Golden and TH both pursued it seemed, on the one hand, like a fine piece of Day 1 casing, but on the other hand could be a very easily-misconstrued case for scum to use against Hedge. Being wary of bandwagons is a natural thing in a game of mafia, and Golden sets up a scenario here where, any time hedge expresses concern over the formation of a bandwagon, she will be eyed as suspicious.

Spoiler: show

Also, is it just me, or is it really quiet. Where are people like MP and SVS. Did certain numbers silence people? It feels odd that some people are not posting at all that are not exactly known for restraint.

Early allusion to a silencer. I don’t really find this suspicious, as Golden has had a turn being silenced (or at least pretended to) and this is not really the least bit damning. But it’s there and I’m pointing it out.

Spoiler: show

Comments on issues rather than players are an easy way for a baddie to be involved without getting their hands dirty.

I feel like this is so on point.

I would agree somewhat, but add that this is increasingly important as the game moves forward. I am particularly partial to voting data myself, which isn't possible until after Day 1. There has been a lot of activity early on this game, but discussion can only take us so far without further input from lynches and NKs to confirm people's suspicions or show their weaknesses.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with commenting on issues rather than players. But I do agree that someone can appear to be contributing by commenting on issues, and then you look back and realise how few players they are connecting themselves to in any way shape or form.

A good way for baddies to hide is to have opinions on as few people as possible.

I’m going back on what I just said about only pulling quotes that gave me scum vibes on Golden. I’m pointing out this one because of that last sentence he wrote. I feel like it’s a perfect summary of my case against splints above. She’s expressed an opinion about only 3 or 4 players in the game so far. ANYWAY, back to Golden, sorry for the interlude.

Spoiler: show

Let's all pretend none of Cobalt, SVS, or Long Con are available to be lynched today. Who do we all vote for then?

I vote Hedgeowl.

But if your question went a step further and asked 'who beyond those people you have said you are suspicious of would you vote for'...

I'd choose someone who I know can be a great contributor but hasn't been, even if they are players who are normally quieter. I'm thinking probably BR, whose posts have actually pinged me just a little.

This post is of the “so town it’s scummy” variety. Golden (and eventually Canucklehead) was one of the few players on Day 1 who seemed completely willing to go beyond the discussion of the popular subjects and propose fresh ideas. This is a post where he does that, and then goes even beyond it even more to list BR as a potential suspect. I don’t really have any beef with the post other than that it’s the exact type of post I would expect a super crafty scum to make.

Spoiler: show

Golden where are your civ vibes for nutella coming from?

For me, civ vibes rarely come from specific posts or perspectives - it's more the collective vibe I get that over a series of posts nothing about them feels off to me. So I can't point to a specific thing, but nutella feels like she has been contributing to the civ cause to me.

Can you point to anything specific though that feels like it came from a genuine townie mindset? I have the same collective vibe from nutella's posts: they feel slick and not off at all. I guess that's the same thing that has me thinking I should look closely at her.

No I can't, I haven't done a reread of her and as I say it's not about specific posts. I always think I need to read the people I see I feel are civ because just because I feel it doesn't mean it's true.

These posts strike me as being somewhat inconsistent with the rest of Golden’s posts, and it’s not really clear what he’s getting at when he states that he was getting “civ vibes” from Nutella. I don’t see where these vibes are coming from and it seems odd that Golden would not be able to point to any specifics in this case. Obviously it’s tough to really make too much of this when we don’t even know what Nutella’s alignment is or anything, but it’s something that caught my eye.

Spoiler: show

Thisis the third game I've played with you and I figure odds are you're going to have to be mafia at some point. Like a lot of players in this game there are a lot of people I am unfamiliar with or I have played with in the past that had such low post counts I didn't really get a feel for them. You're someone I did get a feel for, so I'm just keeping an eye on you for differences in this game.

The odds are you have to be civilian at some point too!

I'm not going to disagree with the fact I might be playing differently - I feel like the way I approach every game differs slightly depending on how the game is evolving. This game, I haven't had to take large chunks of responsibility for making the thread move in the way I did in both Narnia and Omerta, for example, because there are plenty of other vocal people. But it would be interesting to see what you are seeing, if you can put your finger on it.

I am always wary of a player who is willing to concede and acknowledge the accuracy of an argument made against them. Here Golden acknowledges that players might be able to perceive him differently from his usual self. I would ask why Golden feels he is playing differently this game, and what his own perceived changes in approach have been?

Spoiler: show

Also, I'm beginning to buy the TB/LC theory, or even a TB/LC/G-Man, this is mafia 1 theory - taking into account my various thoughts around the meaning of any killing of epi on night 1. I haven't really seen LC as suspicious on his own merit, but certain things are beginning to add up for me.

On Day 3 Golden began speculating a lot about this possible scum team of Bubbles, Long Con, and G-man. While his theories are pretty solid, and we now know that at least one of them was actually scum, it seems like a bit of a reach to try to formulate opinions about an entire scum team before even catching one. And, as I believe I’ve mentioned previously in this game, I feel like scum players would be more inclined to look for full teams of scum players rather than individuals in this game. But that’s just a personal theory and others might think I’m a complete idiot for thinking it.

Spoiler: show

Is there any evidence that sloonei has any view on nutella other than his current vote?

Because I'm not reading anything into the votes of silenced people who can't speak for themselves.

I do not think sloonei has any info on nutella, although lets wait to hear what he has to say about it tomorrow. I find it more likely that he has approximately the same amount of info on nutella today as I had on epignosis yesterday - ie zero. Peculiar votes are usually peculiar for a reason, and people don't tend to show off the fact they have info if they can help it.

@canuck - it came across wrong. What I really meant 'is everyone jumping on it because this is the role description from les mis that I didn't get'?

If it's not a known fact, then even if it is a role ability, why assume it's mafia not civilian?

And these posts from today caught my attention immediately, before I even noticed Golden’s previous posts about “civ vibes on Nutella”. This continues to have the feel of a player unwilling to entertain a case against another player, which I do not like. This may be the strongest point I have to make against Golden. I put my vote on Nutella (and later DFaraday) because they’re players who I’ve become more suspicious of and was hoping to inspire discussion about them in the thread while I was silenced. Golden was one of the players I was expecting to pick up on this, but instead he just kind of shrugs my vote off and tosses it aside. To be fair, Golden expressed the same attitude toward my vote when it changed to DFaraday later in the day:

I note that at some point Sloonei changed his vote from nutella to DFaraday. He is having an interesting day.

While I would like Golden (and possibly others) to respond to all of these points, I want to stress again that this exercise only strengthened my town read on him. He’s got, at the time I’m finishing this up, 348 posts and I was only about to pull out ~10-15 that raised even the slightest amount of suspicion in me. That’s 300+ posts of strong town vibes. I could pull out and explain some examples if people wish (though after I’m done posting all these reads I doubt anyone will be in the mood for even more of my blabbering), but for now I’ll leave at this.
Questions for Golden: What do you think of all the things I just said?

[Sloonei]

i do not know why there is an angry taunting face next to dragonucklehead's name.

[Sloonei]

Gumshoe
Has not posted since my previous case, so it still stands:

Gumshoe was my first public suspect because of this Day 0 post and I still feel a little odd about it (though I think he defended himself well against it) as well as his frequent jokes about being Mafia, which gave me the impression of scum trying to compensate for their own scuminess by making it too obvious, in a way.
On the reread, this early post is also catching my attention:

Spoiler: show

So the game begins.

I mean, I don't want to just jump on a bandwagon but I've been pinged my what Epignosis has started here. As potentially weak as of a suspicion as it is (which, I mean, it's not even Day 1 so the littlest things really do matter) I can see exactly what Epignosis is saying. Long Con's post reads somewhat like he wants us to think he's contributing without actually contributing. Playing devil's advocate on myself, there is little to nothing to contribute day 0 but it's the feeling that he wants us to think that he contributing that feels fishy. I see why LC saying MP is stirring things up is a good thing and then belittling it as a shoving match is weird. I concur.

That being said, SVS dragged that suspicion a little bit further down the hole and went with LC. 1) The idea of "buddying up" has come up today and SVS came off like LC's knight in shining armor coming to rescue him from Epignosis. 2) Saying that Epignosis is trying to distract us. Distract us from what? Discussing Reading Rainbow? 3) I'm not afraid to be honest of my selfish ways, the main reason this stood out to me is because I saw my name. Dragging themselves and myself into the "interesting" topic comes off very weird to me. I'm battling with my ego as whether I find it weird because subconsciously I just don't like my name coming up or if it truly is weird. I'm leaning toward the latter. I mean, my use of interesting was talking about MP's previous game. Much different than LC's usage of the word. My name being included just seems like a tactic to link up an innocent name to your own. It's like "See, everyone is doing it."

Now, mind you, THE GAME HASN'T EVEN TRULY BEGUN so I'm the tiniest things are just popping off the screen right now and are probably making me paranoid but, hey, it's better to try to figure things out than to sit back and wait. Cuz thar be killahs on teh loose!

TLDR: I'm getting town vibes from Epignosis and baddie vibes from LC & SVS.

PS. The only mafia I have played in years is quick mafia games that last, like, at most 30 minutes. Trying to readjust back into the swing of mafia in this type of forum setting is a little tricky. I'm a ranting, wordy kind of guy to begin with so if you think I need to relax I would appreciate the advice. I feel like I'm trying to compensate because I'm used to not even writing as much as I have in this single post... in an entire game. I still need to find what the correct balance is.

PS. A million of posts have been made since I began this. Ignore any information I did not have prior to 8:48 please.

It's that bit I've highlighted that's got me most worried. That paragraph reads like scum trying to preemptively snuff any attacks that could be turned against them as a result of this post, like a big blanket of "you can't suspect me", even for something that is incredibly early.

Others have noted that Gumshoe has been completely absent for a while now. I at first suspected that Gumshoe was posting less frequently for much of Day 1 after I had put some suspicion on him because he really was scum and had drawn some unwanted attention right away, but with this prolonged absence, that suspicion has kind of dissolved. I hope Gumshoe is alright and will show back up full of posts soon. Until then, he's a slight scum read from me.

I’ll add that Gumshoe is probably my strongest gut scum read. There’s nothing more substantial to this, just a feeling. I hope Gumshoe is well and is able to return to this game at some point.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hedgeowl
I thought Hedgeowl defended and explained herself well in response to the early suspicion she received for her “bandwagon” comment. I think I’ve said this like 18 times now, but for the sake of being thorough, here’s the posts I liked:

Spoiler: show

Hedgeowl - if several people ended up voting for LC or SVS today, would you consider that there seemed to be good reasons for that, or are you saying that you find the reasons to suspect LC and SVS unconvincing?

Oh I am not saying that. Did I say that? I was commenting on the earlier discussion about newbies, which SVS and LC are not. I am sympathetic to LC because of Epi's accusation around the word "interesting" but that's more because I am someone who overuses this word in life. I do find SVS' defense interesting (!) however. I would not say I am ready to vote based on any of this yet though. Mostly, I think there been a lot of huffing and puffing and MP's redonkulous rainbow list aside ( ), not much noteworthy in 5 pages that took me too long to read, so I agree with Epi there. I will say so far he reads like civ Epi to me, and I can never tell very well with LC.

what are ISOs that everyone is mentioning? I assume not In Search Of...

I would add to Turnip's post that in Hedgeowl's third post, she seems to state that MP's rainbow list is something worth taking note of, but all she goes on to say is that it made her laugh.

That was a bit of tongue and cheek humor. I did not think his rainbow list (with only 2 colors!) was super valuable to me at the time, but I thought it was funny of him to try. I am so rarely serious in my posts, so it sometimes causes confusion. I play mafia for the lulz and as a break from my crazy wonderful two year old when he is sleeping, so I am not as serious as the serious players, but I do enjoy the game.

I also don't want anyone to feel as if I am insulting your rainbow lists. They are new to me and I am just getting used to them, but have no issues with those who use them, as you know, an actual rainbow. I haven't decided how I feel about Grainbows yet though.

Yes, TH, that's exactly what I was trying to do. I felt like Hedgeowl's statement was definitely something that could be referred back to later to defend LC or SVS, and I didn't want to allow it to be used that way. I could definitely see a scenario where Hedgeowl is in a team with LC or SVS and was hoping to have some else run with her comment and imply that LC or SVS were being bandwagoned.

Also, her response question 'Did I say that?' - was a noteworthy response to me.

Ah, my bandwagon comment was in no way related to SVS or LC. They are both so slippery when bad that I often find I suspect them in every game just because, but struggle to really find a concrete reason beyond gut. This game so far, I am finding Epi's comments noteworthy regarding SVS, but also keeping in mind this dynamic between the two is not new. As for LC I still don't know, but I have 3 more pages to read.

I'm with Turnip Head on this one. I got so caught up focusing on the whole Epi - Lc - SVS talk I forgot about the posts Hedgeowl had made. They read really scummy to me too. A lot of mafia excuse speak. If Hedge is bad, it seems kind of sloppy of her....

At this point she's pinging me the most for a day 1 vote.

I am reading Gumshoe as civvie for now.

How is it sloppy of me? What exactly did I say that you find to be mafia excuse speak? That I dont want to target newbies? Also, I can't decide if I am offended or not if it is sloppy mafia playing.

Yes, TH, that's exactly what I was trying to do. I felt like Hedgeowl's statement was definitely something that could be referred back to later to defend LC or SVS, and I didn't want to allow it to be used that way. I could definitely see a scenario where Hedgeowl is in a team with LC or SVS and was hoping to have some else run with her comment and imply that LC or SVS were being bandwagoned.

It just seems so out of place in that post. And I see what you're saying, she could refer back to that remark to preemptively counter any bandwagons she doesn't like. It's like that sentence came from the future and landed in Hedgeowl's post.

TH, you have seriously played mafia with me enough to know that I am very wary of bandwagons or what I perceive to be bandwagons and have used my votes before to actively save people I think are civvies. I dont see how that is any different for me this game.

These are reasonable and consistent explanations of her behavior. I buy what she’s saying about being wary of bandwagons and not immediately seeing the connection others were making because, frankly, I wouldn’t have reached any of the conclusions that others were coming to about her posts. This is not to say any of this makes her a town read, but it certainly helps her case that she was able to respond positively to some early heat.
Some early reads:

Spoiler: show

Alright, I just finished catching up and am tired. I am really uncertain as to my suspicions currently, but would like to look back at those that jumped on board other people's suspicions and voted as a result. I am not super surprised at Cobalt's vote, but dont know how serious to take it given his earlier comments. MM as well need to reread. I will be interested in seeing how others vote an will plan to vote tomorrow evening hopefully.

Also, I find myself identifying with TGG description of playstyle as well. Rings true for me too.

Night y'all.

As always, I don’t like the “I am really uncertain about my suspicions” thing, but she goes on to elaborate a little bit more and I don’t really get any vibes of scumminess here, as she at least has the appearance of earnestly looking for suspects. She’s confused by Cobalt’s earlier behavior and would like to take a closer look at Metalmarsh. None of this is too strong, so I’ll pay attention to how her reads develop later on.

Spoiler: show

Ugh, I am like 5 pages behind, but I don't want SvS to go down on a self vote. Voting LC because between him and Cobalt I feel more suspicious of him, but very weak still.

Linki no idea what is going on in the vote lol.

Another weak read, but I actually kinda like this one. By voting for Long Con over Cobalt and SVS she is picking a definitive stance but also being honest (presumably) about her lack of confidence in the vote. If she were scum I would expect either more waffling, or pretense about having a stronger read than this.

Spoiler: show

I don't like the taunting Cobalt trying to get us to vote him now. Claiming that ability after someone guessed it seems like what you did I a game LC when Juliets said you were indy and you weren't.

I am almost inclined to leave the LC-Cobalt thing for another day, but there have been so many questions raised between these two. I still have 4-5 pages to read before the last lynch,

I feel the need to address this post, since I responded to it at the time. While I disagreed with the sentiment that we should (have) left the Cobalt/LC feud for a later day, I did not get any scummy vibes from Hedge here. I took it as her saying there was still too much confusion surrounding those two, and that we’d have a better chance if we looked elsewhere. Plus, I don’t think a scum player would come out with a statement that’s so at odds with the common opinion like this.

The bulk of Hedge’s post history is her expressing frustration at constantly needing to play catch-up, which is something I buy without making any observation toward her alignment. From the content of her posts, I get mostly honest vibes though there’s not a whole lot of substance to them as far as reads and cases go. Hedge is probably a slight town read from me at the moment, but with the big asterisk that *I need to hear more before I can really make any sort of definitive read on her*. In the last couple days she has voted for TinyBubbles and G-man. I suppose my first question for Hedge would be: Why TinyBubbles? Do you find her suspicious? Why? And also, who else do you find suspicious and why? Do you have any civ reads?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Metalmarsh
I gave Metalmarsh a pass early on for his lack of activity because he had a couple of perfectly legitimate excuses, but since then he hasn’t really done much to make me feel too good about him, but I’ve also not given him a close look until now. So here goes.

Spoiler: show

I voted Long Con the Baddie because it's the right thing to do.

Also, I won't be around much until Saturday.

Much of mm’s early posts centered around getting Long Con lynched because [reasons not found]. This could be a very bold bussing strategy, and I see no reason not to consider that, or it could just be some other weird tactic from metalmarsh that I don’t understand. I believe I remember him saying there was no real reason for it (though I could be making this up), and if so that just raises further questions. This whole business was a little fishy but I don’t know what to make of it.

Spoiler: show

I'm back!

Time to catch up and see what's going on.

Actually I'm too tired to catch up now, but it's nice to see I'm still alive (in more ways than one).

Just make sure I die early in Guess Who, and the marmot will come back!

I know I said I gave him a pass, and his excuses were certainly legitimate, but these two posts still give me a bad feeling about marsh. He expresses an intent to get caught up and start playing the game but then quickly backs off it and says he’s too tired. I don’t doubt his exhaustion, but I just feel like a townie MM would be more motivated to get at least something accomplished before disappearing again.

Spoiler: show

Hi TinyBubbles.
Right now it appears the three most popular names for lynch targets are Long Con, S~V~S, and Cobalt. If you were to choose between those three, who would you pick and why?

At the risk of contradicting what i just said about bandwagoning, id probably go for either svs or cobalt, because they arent getting as much negative press as long con atm. This game has barely even begun, i find it interesting (to use your word heh) that long con already seems so scummy to some. There is just something off about that. im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because of it.

Who would you vote for?

TinyBubbles says this, defending the suspicion of Long Con. No real read of Long Con, just a casual addressing of the "suspicion".

...And i'm a good guy AGAIN for the third time in a row! Which really doesn't help me train my mafia hunting instincts, like they say it takes a thief to catch a thief. Anyway, for what it is worth sloonei and golden are playing a lot like they did in the economics game so far, so i (want?) to believe they are civ. Don't know about the others like long con. Curious about the pm Dom sent like many of you, i would love if we could somehow join together and figure out what they all mean without actually posting them.

This first lynch vote i'm gonna probably bandwagon on the most voted person, since i figure that is marginally better than voting a random. It's a cop out, i know. Don't shoot me.

Ok, I went over TinyBubbles to see why I felt she was fishy, and it's this post mostly that made a ping stick out in my memory. Nothing too notable going on in her other posts, she did vote for Cobalt over S~V~S, but also stated that she thought S~V~S was bad from a gut perspective. That could be a way to push the lynch of a non-baddie-teammate while voting for a baddie teammate, but I think that would be a pretty risky maneuver with such a close lynch. Actually, not nearly as risky when votes are changeable - a Cobalt teammate could switch their vote late if need be, and it wasn't needed with myself and S~V~S leading the lynch.

i will never tire of asking epi these questions and getting no answers.

I dare you to make that your sig.

Long Con says this recently today. Long Con has not mentioned or interacted with TinyBubbles all game. However, he suddenly states he's seeing her as fishy, but convinces himself otherwise all in the same post.

I forgot about this case. I actually like it a lot and would like to look more into it in light of LC’s flip. Some townie points to MM here, but not a lot because two scum teams and three indies.

Spoiler: show

Long Con says this recently today. Long Con has not mentioned or interacted with TinyBubbles all game. However, he suddenly states he's seeing her as fishy, but convinces himself otherwise all in the same post.

Trimmed it, but MM's comment about Tiny and LC makes some sense. Tiny has pretty much no input into this game, but managed to defend LC AND jump on my initial Cobalt vote which had been, at the time, based on an erroneous read of his post history. And Long Con managed to pseudo-suspect Tiny without committing to it in a meaningful way. Very interesting read, MM.

What exactly is wrong with my post about Tiny? As I recall, I was posting and thinking at the same time, and my opinion shifted as I went through. It was typed as I thought, with some pauses and brb's as I was doing it, but I left it "as-is" because it represented my real thought process at the time.

Why are you (or anyone) suspicious of my post?

I am amazed at how many people have actually picked up on that case considering how well you defended it.

But voting for you is fun.

But here he backs off that case softly, while maintaining his vote on LC. I’m curious to hear what MM thinks of TinyBubbles now.

After initially seeming to take the PM deciphering thing lightly, he gets a little more serious about helping others to figure it out in these posts:

Spoiler: show

Have the replacements been receiving the Day 0 messages that their originals would have received?

Yes. Mine resembles Scotty's and DF's. I don't know what number BWT picked though.

14.

Let us team up, fellow multiple of 7. You, me, G-Man and Black Rock.

FZ, this is what Golden put forth in regards to the numbers which seems pretty accurate. So we would not actually have gotten the same one.

But it’s a short lived interest and nothing really comes of it (have we cracked those things yet, btw? I’ve been completely ignoring them but I certainly dig the effort others have put into solving them and they could potentially be fairly useful to us).

Spoiler: show

Sloonei, why do you think inconsistency is a baddie marker? I find that people who are willing to change their minds, or who are uncertain about voting are much more likely to be civillians. Baddies tend to have an idea in their head about who they can place a "legit" vote on, and tend to more or less stick to that suspicion to avoid standing out/looking like they're trying to save someone. Why does sig's inconsistency make you think "informed baddie" instead of "clueless civ"?

It's a tough call.

I've been guilty myself, but I know that sometimes when a player is extremely adament and tunnels after another particular player a lot, it might be because they are teammates and the player is trying to throw his/her teammate under the bus. I think the circumstances the dictate the change of mind are more important than the fact that a player changed their mind.

”Commenting on issues rather than players.” This post is so fluffy, I just want to pet it.

Spoiler: show

I can read the whole exchange between Golden and Long Con on the last couple pages as two frustrated townies who are trying to work out suspicions against each other. Or I can read it as one townie and one scum. Or two scums, on either team. At the moment I'm inclined to lean toward one of the former two options. I still have Golden as a strong town read and if only one of them is scum, I'd say it's LC. But I'm not gonna say that just yet. They could both be town.

I'll look over it again, but it seemed like Golden picked one little thing in a comment from Long Con to go after.

Don’t really know what this comment’s supposed to suggest, but it’s pretty fluffy and empty again.

His big sig ISO is the opposite of fluffy and I dig that he did his homework before settling on a vote, but this post stands out way too much in MM’s post history. It’s by far his most substantial post in the game, and it’s a case of a player who’d already been cased and was probably on their way out the door anyway. Seems like a bit of pretend effort to earn himself townie points, perhaps.

Spoiler: show

Tiny's self-vote is the most suspicious thing she's done in this game and I don't necessarily think she'd be a bad lynch today, but I feel awful about lynching her by taking advantage of her self-vote, as seems to be happening right now. It feels a lot different from SVS on Day 1 for a number of reasons, but the point is I don't want to vote for Tiny as long as she's also voting for herself. this has nothing to do with how i'm reading her in the game, lynching her right now just doesn't feel right.

I'm notfuly caught up yet, but I had to pipe in here.
How on earth is it "taking advantage" of someone's self-vote?! She WANTS to be voted off! Voting for her isnt "taking advantage", it's accepting her decision!

It's both. Yes it may help TinyBubbles out, but that's the easiest thing a baddie can do to hop on a bandwagon if she is a civvie. If a civilian offers him/herself up for a lynch, they are doing the mafia a favor if everyone succumbs to it.

Fluffy fluffy fluff

Spoiler: show

@Scotty. I appreciate you looking out for me. Unfortunately, I'm still on my phone, so can't give you a detailed response at this moment. Well I could, but that is too much work, and I can do it later on a computer.

As for the statements I made about Golden being NK'd, I really did forget. Golden and I have also developed this trend where every game we play, one of us does by Day 3 (and this is our 8th or even 9th game together), so it would be quite an accomplishment if we both survive to tomorrow. The heart attack statement was in jest.

This is a response to a big long post by Scotty where he made a number of points about Metalmarsh. MM promises to respond in depth later, which he does get to eventually, but I do not like the one thing that he responds to here. That was the one point that least needed to be addressed, and his response seems more defensive than it needs to be, and his lack of defense against everything else Scotty has to say is even worse than that. I’m starting to feel not good about MM. His ”more detailed” defense is hardly anything as well and I especially don’t like the last bit, where he says he loves detailed analyses, and yet his post history this game is pretty much devoid of anything close to that.

Spoiler: show

While we're all trying to interpret that End of Night post, what do we make of those two hooded figures shaking hands? Did they conspire to save me? Hoods are an inherently evil clothing item, so I dunno

idk why dont you tell us scumnei

are you trying to call me scum here?

not if you help me FINALLY lynch long con today

what i don't understand is if people like Epi think me and LC are teammates then it's beneficial to kill both of us so let's just start with Long Con mmkay?

Why not lynch G-Man today?

Why lynch G-Man today?

I don't feel like you're interested in catching baddies.

@Black Rock. The only defense I can offer is look at my post history.

1) I am doing something. The productivity or results may not please you, but I've done something.

2) Per Sloonei's thoughts, I went back and did a complete reread and observation of sig, and thought I brought up a very good point with regards to his recent interactions with Long Con. To sweep that under the rug and say I'm not doing anything is so cruel.

3) The post you responded to saying "I don't think you're interested." was a question to Epignosis that I want an answer to. Epignosis was silenced all day yesterday (so it appears), so I don't know what he thinks about G-Man.

4) I've taken a bit of time to immerse myself into this game, but that doesn't make my early play completely irrelevant to this game.

By the way, what part of Turnip Head's gameplay do you find good?

At this point in my read through MM’s post history, I am inclined to agree with what Black Rock says above, and I do not like any of the points MM raises in his defense. It all reads as very defensive, like he knows her implication to be true and is trying to shake it off but can’t.

Spoiler: show

G-Man seems to have no interest in defending himself, and it reads like a defeated baddie to me (or at best an unhelpful civvie). Speaking of unhelpful civvie, that's how I'm looking at MM. If he were bad I don't think he'd have such tunnel vision; this is definitely a departure in style for him. I'm still not convinced about LC being bad, either, so MM's sureness seems misplaced.

I will go ahead and *vote G-Man*

I suppose being dubbed an unhelpful civvie is better than being suspected.

Still, I hope you're not using that as an excuse for not reading my posts.

Linki: Same here. Get well soon Master Dom.

Seems perfectly okay being labeled “unhelpful” because at least he’s not “suspicious”. That’s highly suspicious.
This is becoming too long so I’m just gonna cut it off here and say that metalmarsh is one of my stronger scum reads. I’d be down to push for votes against him tomorrow.
I have no questions for him. I just want him to prove to me that he’s trying to help the town effort this game.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MovingPictures/Epignosis 2.0
I had a light suspicion of MP before he subbed out, and Epi has not done much to help his case since (re-)joining. For one, just looking at his post history (and I’m not sure how fair this is, but I can’t really ignore it), he’s got 3 pages of posts from his first life, which lasted 1 Day/Night phase, and only 2 pages for the rest of the game (granted, he was silenced that one day). I had a strong (by Day 1 standards) town read on him on Day 1, but since his return I’ve got nothing on him. This could all just be a defense mechanism since, as everyone and their mother now knows, Epi dies early in every game ever. Now, as for the content of these posts…

Spoiler: show

He was busy selecting an electric violin for purchase, which will be here Monday.

My opinions haven't changed. I see no need to post them again.

This post is almost deliberately unhelpful and I didn’t find it entirely believable (hence my immediate questioning of it). I do not believe that Epi would have had no change of opinion or newly formed ideas to offer upon reentering the game. Of course, this is Epi, so he could always just be choosing not to share things. Who knows? But then he turns around and offers this much more helpful post:

Spoiler: show

The unfortunate aspect of this kind of game is the people that don't post have nothing for us to base an opinion off of except their curious absence. So as we go along, do we vote for them because of their non-participation, or keep pushing for the most suspicious opinionated people?

I will tell you from my (hosting) experience that Mafia almost always tend to consist of quiet people, even if only one or two. Whether they are naturally quiet or doing so on purpose, they are quiet all the same, and they coast. The rub comes when anyone seriously suggests lynching a low poster. There are some here who will suspect you right away for doing so, which I think encourages low(er) participation.

After all I've seen, I never criticize wanting to lynch a low poster. If the low-poster is Mafia, you catch a killer and show him that coasting isn't a viable strategy. If the low-poster is a civilian, then he wasn't helping anyway, so you make him helpful in getting to see how people chose to vote the person off.

My two cents. I'm off to my uncle's birthday cookout.

So this is something which he had not expressed before, making his previous post seem a bit more questionable. Also the second time he’s given an excuse for being away from the thread, which is something I tend to view as scummy. Like he’s preemptively defending himself against the “Epi’s being too quiet” remarks that may possibly start to come in.

Spoiler: show

Light to moderate scum read on Scotty. As Turnip Head pointed out earlier, the Epi kill was most likely designed to keep the attention on myself and Long Con today. Scotty said that my lynch would be the MOST beneficial today, and seems to be trying to reinforce that attention staying on me rather than elsewhere.

If you guys really want to lynch me go ahead, we'll get answers either way.

What are the questions?

I assume people would try and determine the validity of my suspicion on Long Con and others I've posted about if/when I flip civilian. Other than that, a definitive flip of me shows the point of view I posted from. For example, if I flipped mafia, you would be more inclined to think my strongest scum reads were civilian unless I threw a buddy in there to soft clear them. If I flipped civilian, you might be inclined to trust my instincts and lynch one of my scum reads. Depends on the situation and the group we're playing with, because I don't know them very well.

Isn't that the case when anybody gets lynched though? You're not saying anything meaningful here.

Yes, but given that I have been at the forefront of a lot of mess involving me and Long Con, it's the most prominent mess to get out of the way, if you choose to lynch me today. What I meant was that those things will be applied specifically to my situation.

I don't really get what you're asking here, can you clarify?

It's a mess you started and continue to perpetuate.

You said "we" would get answers from lynching you. When I asked what the questions were, you named every possibility in the book, as though we couldn't know this without you saying them.

My point being: You saying "We'll get answers" is meaningless because that's true regarding lynching anyone. Lynch me right now (if you could) and you'll get "answers." But those answers will only be as useful as the question.

I'd really like to get a few people's views on Black Rock.

I was hoping I'd wake up to BR's response to my questions.

Since people are voting already, I'll explain what's on my mind:

On this forum, if you leave an unpublished post in a tab for too long, it will say something to the effect of "The submitted form is no longer valid" or "This page has expire; please refresh." I forget the exact wording, but I know it has happened from time to time to me. It's no big deal: You hit F5 and your content is still there.

But Black Rock made it sound like posting what she did was an accident, like she had the wrong tab open or something (one that was left up for 12 hours?). Plus the "I forgot to press submit once and came back 12 hours later to see my post sitting there and then it got caught up in linkitis and then I failed" doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint.

I don’t find either of these posts particularly useful for similar reasons. In neither of these posts is Epi asking questions/making points that I find to be indicative of anyone’s alignment, just kinda picking at technicalities and semantics. However, Epi and I seem to take very different approaches to the game, so I can’t really say I find them to be pointless posts, but they certainly feel like false effort to me.

Spoiler: show

I hope the poll isn't over soonish. I'll address Epig then.

It isn't, but it doesn't seem to bother you that you may be addressing me after the poll is over.

Voted.

I'll always put family and work over a game. If this bothers you then voting for me is the right thing for you to do at this point. It doesn't make me bad, I just have my priorities in the right order. Dogging me won't make you look good.

I don't care about looking good.

I work and have a million projects going on, and I have in-laws here who outnumber my family. I just made a delicious lasagna. Everyone has real life. Nobody here is a robot. So none of that matters to me in the context of this game, as none of it has any bearing on what role PM you got. I am not saying you are bad because you aren't posting a lot or posting when I want you to. I think you know that.

What DOES make you look bad:

I've been bad with you a few times recently and I am detecting some similarities.

Your posts not posting (the only time I have ever had that happen to me was at work because someone swore up a storm right before I posted and so the work filter kicked in). Technological issues with no precedent on my end raise my eyebrow.

The way you word things are flaky.

You missed the Day 1 vote (Yes ma'am, I find that suspicious, not because you have a reason for missing it). I find the content of your posts Day 0 and Day 1 suspicious in conjunction with missing the vote.

Finally, defending yourself by:

I'll always put family and work over a game. If this bothers you then voting for me is the right thing for you to do at this point. It doesn't make me bad, I just have my priorities in the right order. Dogging me won't make you look good.

Anybody with work and family and good sense can say this.

Doesn't make you good.

And no, dogging you doesn't make me look bad.

I like this post. It reminds me of Epi 1.0. More of this please.

I think I’m still neutral on Epi 2.0, and I don’t think anything I could ask him here will matter, so I’ll just continue observing him. Not too worried if he’s scum anyway, since we all know he’s not gonna last too long

[Sloonei]

Neverwhere
I mentioned Neverwhere as a suspect earlier and that was mostly due to what I perceived as her being a fairly quiet player with the appearance of being around the thread more than she was letting on. I’ve since cooled off a bit on that suspicion, though this will be the first time in a while that I’ve looked closely at her posts, so we’ll see.

Spoiler: show

I'm with Turnip Head on this one. I got so caught up focusing on the whole Epi - Lc - SVS talk I forgot about the posts Hedgeowl had made. They read really scummy to me too. A lot of mafia excuse speak. If Hedge is bad, it seems kind of sloppy of her....

At this point she's pinging me the most for a day 1 vote.

I am reading Gumshoe as civvie for now.

Her first game-relevant post supports Turnip Head’s early case against Hedgeowl without really offering anything new, and she also gives a civ read to Gumshoe, again without offering any reasons in support of herself. These are both early, weak reads and it’s not easy to really make anything of them yet.

Spoiler: show

Disclaimer -- I'm usually a relatively quiet player, but I might be a very quiet player over teh next week or so. For this I apologise. It's coming up on the last week of school for my kid and it's got intense. I'm also up in court tomorrow and under a lot of stress for that. My daughter also has her autism assessment next Friday, so I'm snowed under with paper work and and note taking (read: essay writing). I'm reading as fast as i can, but everytime i log in theres another 4 pages of text I'll post my thoughs briefly now and hopefully later have time to talk in more detail!

For the time being SVS, Cobalt and hedge are on my radar. Hedge could be civvie -- but I'm seeign a lot of generic, time buying speak from her. It could be legit, butin the games I've played I've seen mafia use this tactic frequently. I'm tempted to vote for her as a result.

I'm really sorry I still have four pages to sift through, I'll try and give you some of my lovin' tonight.

This post… I’m sorry, Neverwhere, but I can’t see anything but scumminess in here. The green OT bit is her giving herself a pass from being totally active and busy in the thread (“I’m usually a realtively quiet player”), and then her read on Hedgeowl is just full of waffles. “She’s on my radar but I dunno maybe she’s good, but also maybe she’s not, but maybe, or not.” And SVS and Cobalt were on everyone’s radar on Day 1.

Spoiler: show

I think the Tiny pattern thing you mentioned above was brought up because people thought that it was odd she would keep mentioning it over and over and that it could eb the case she's just trying too hard to be careful and mimic every other game she has played. I thnik there could be something to this theory, and I have my eye on her but I would like to observe her for a little longer. She is also a very low poster so I haven't read much from her.

I had considered Cobalt for my vote last time round, and I think he's my top suspect for todays lynch. I get really scummy vibes off him. I am a little worried about the things he has insiunated about his role, but I also think those could indicate that he is mafia.

Golden is someone I want to keep a closer eye on. I couldn't give you specifics at this moment in time (hence wanting to scrutinise further) but I've always played with civvie Golden and feel like there's something slightly different this game.

I like this post a lot better, though. For one, she shows restraint on the super easy TinyBubbles case. The Cobalt suspicion is one that was shared by pretty much everyone and this isn’t a particularly strong read she’s offering, but it’s not inconsistent with the rest of her posts, and she also expresses some reasonable early doubt about Golden.

Spoiler: show

Golden is someone I want to keep a closer eye on. I couldn't give you specifics at this moment in time (hence wanting to scrutinise further) but I've always played with civvie Golden and feel like there's something slightly different this game.

Could it be because for once I'm not saying that you come across as civ?

Nope, it has nothing to do with that. In fact, if I were mafia I probably would have ignored your comment altogether. I can understand your suspicions though, it would be only natural for you to look at me more closely for mafia signs after the last couple of games we played. I have nothing to hide, however.

Thisis the third game I've played with you and I figure odds are you're going to have to be mafia at some point. Like a lot of players in this game there are a lot of people I am unfamiliar with or I have played with in the past that had such low post counts I didn't really get a feel for them. You're someone I did get a feel for, so I'm just keeping an eye on you for differences in this game.

Neverwhere you’re making me dizzy! Now I feel bad about this post. “I would not do x if I was mafia” statements always set off a bunch of alarms for me, and one of those is stuck right there in the heart of this post.

Spoiler: show

I'd really like to get a few people's views on Black Rock.

I can see what you are saying about her. It takes until her seventh post to say something that's not a one line response to somebody else, and when she finally does make a long post and name names, she's also making a bunch of excuses and apologies. This could very easily be in line with a townie who was simply too busy during Day 1 to contribute a lot, but it could just as easily be scummy behavior.

And hey, what's this?

I love Dom as a host, he is a very quick responder.

I think I have it solved basically, some of the flavour text I haven't but it is a baddie role. I think there is a possibility of a civvie being corrupted. Now my dear host wouldn't confirm this to me but I think it might be a recruitment possibility. If one team has it the other team might as well.

I just stupidly realized the other team has four members so they won't necessarily have a recruit.

"the other team"? This would be a colossal scum slip, but I'm gonna need Black Rock to explain what she meant here.

On the whole this is a pretty safe post history. She's named a few people as being vaguely suspicious but the only one she really substantiated was Bass, and I'm not really seeing the case against him right now. Could see it as an effort by scum (BR) to stand apart from the rest of the game's action and make herself look good for having a different suspect than everyone else.

I also noticed that slip up. Hmm..

Pounces on the Black Rock “slip up” I pointed out. I really don’t like the way this post is framed. The “also” suggests this was something Neverwhere would have been previously aware and suspicious of, and yet she made no mention of it herself until I brought it up, and when I did it was more to get a reaction out of BR and others (like this one), because, as everyone else was quick to point out, it’s not really a true slip up in the context of the post. That Neverwhere seemed so willing to jump on this case does not look good for her. Then she backtracks off it a lot in this post:

Spoiler: show

Not sure. Depending on how today turns out I might still want to look at LC, and possibly Tiny. I'm also interested in the suspicion on Sig and am keeping an eye on him. I am looking forward to hearing more from BR, and others who have seemed particularly blendy like Bass and DF.

what do you think about Neverwhere's posts?

Somewhat neutral. Her earlier posts give me a civvie-leaning vibe, but like LC said it's odd how she jumped on BR's clearly-not-a-slip-up, and based on what she said about Cobalt in a couple posts I would maybe look her way for a possible teammate if he turns out to be bad.

I admit, I was skimmin when I read that post and thought it was a slip up. I have been playing a lazy game this time round, and for that I am sorry. Honestly not enjoying this game as much as all the others I played due to what I perceive as more hostility than I am used to in mafia. I could just be reading all of this wrong, but it just takes away from the fun. Thus I've been skimming, intending to come back and do a proper read and then getting caught up in life and not bothering my fucking ass. I will try and do better.

If Cobalt isn't bad at this stage I really don't care and just want him gone regardless because he's distracting and derailing the game and sounds like he's tantruming non stop. It takes away from other players.

I can sort of buy what she says here and it seems like a decent defense. But the way she’s so quick to back down from the “slip up” thing could easily be seen as scum trying to dance around an obvious point against her.

Spoiler: show

Put my vote in for long con, because there are far too many votes on cobalt right now, i dont trust that thre's not a scummy reason to get him lynched (even if he is mafia). Could be a willing sacrifice, to call attention away from the others. And long can has been slightly suspicious from the start, though i dont know him fromprevious games so cant be sure its not just his usual style. He seemed an easy target last poll so i wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. however now there is no point, most likely cobalt's going to get lynched.

And sorry for not posting much. some posts have seemed kind of hostile, made me reluctant to involve myself. I am still around though

I think i recall bass suspecting i'm scum? I dont know if that was just meant to provoke a reaction or if it's his real opinion. Either way it's fishy.. and yes, for the 1000th time im still civ and will be civ ALL GAME and if you think that it's scummy of me to reiterate that, you don't really know me at all or you're misdirecting.

Why do you feel the need to keep screaming civ? :P Also, I dislike the claim you will be Civ all game. How do you know there might not be a corruption or somthing?

Interesting theory about corruption, Neverwhere. Someone, maybe even me, should go look at where the theories about possible corruption were at this point in the thread. I don’t remember there being any, but I could be wrong.

Spoiler: show

If anyone is feeling the game is a bit hostile, don't forget about our friendly llama. I'm not ashamed to say I've utilised him this game.

Neverwhere, the town is actually more effective at catching baddies when everyone is thoughtful and civil, because, as demonstrated yesterday, when feuds arise the thread is forced to resolve them by lynch (or attempted lynch). I'm certainly with you that if Cobalt doesn't calm it down and allow the town to function as a whole then I'm on board for a lynch.

linki - I thought TB was hinting at not being the three specific roles mentioned in the book, would be interesting to get her take on that.

Agreed. I Don't think it would be a wasted lynch regardless of his actual role. Even if he turns out to be civ his behaviour is not exactly helpful to anyone.

If he is Civ it does make you wonder if he has info on LC that he is actually mafia. Honestly, I'm sick of that duo's drama so I'm willing to ignore it for another day to properly focus on all members of the game. No, that does not make me scum.

TinyBubbles is definitely pinging me for sure. In previous games I played with her she was pretty upbeat and worried about voting the wrong person constantly. She was civ both times. She seems different in this game and much more defensive than I ever remember her being before. Anyone who has to cry I AM CIVILAN in those exact words every post has me raising my eyebrow! :P

I did suspect hedgie last day. Now, I must go wash the dishes, but later on when I get a chance I will reread her posts and give my update opinion.

Golden, for the record I'm reading you as more civ now.

I don’t like that she’s given such a broad reason to want to lynch Cobalt here. Seems like she’s just covering all her bases with her Cobalt suspicion with the “even if he’s civ he’s not being helpful” comment.
She also expresses suspicion of TinyBubbles here, but in her defense it’s for different reasons than most. However, she’s still on the Bubbles wagon, which I continue to be wary of.

Spoiler: show

Running out the door to bring kid to school and cat for kitty abortion, so I don't have time for a proper contribution. I did just quickly catch up over morning coffee and I agree with what Sloonei said regarding changeable votes. I have cast my vote with Bubbles for the time being, as in previous posts I have explained how I find her suspicious. Hopefully I'll cme home to more material to read up on later.

Long Con says this recently today. Long Con has not mentioned or interacted with TinyBubbles all game. However, he suddenly states he's seeing her as fishy, but convinces himself otherwise all in the same post.

Trimmed it, but MM's comment about Tiny and LC makes some sense. Tiny has pretty much no input into this game, but managed to defend LC AND jump on my initial Cobalt vote which had been, at the time, based on an erroneous read of his post history. And Long Con managed to pseudo-suspect Tiny without committing to it in a meaningful way. Very interesting read, MM.

I totally agree. I had put my early vote with Bubbles this am, and have a feeling unless I can get on board with group lynching another member, my vote will stay with Bubbles. I feel quite strongly that she is mafia.

I never got much of a read on Gamer guy, but I think I'm going to go back and re read all his posts because G man is coming off scummy to me. However, I'm not sure if it's just his style of posting with the pictures or not.... He seems to have a lot of time for making up memes while claiming he has no time and contributing nothing. I don't like time wasting. Kind of the same issue I had with Cobalt...although I haven't the foggiest what Cobalt is trying to say at the moment.

Hmm… This vote feels very opportunistic and I do not like it. She then expresses some vague suspicion G-man, which she waffles on a bit, but it has the feel of a preliminary read anyway. I’ll see how this progresses.

Spoiler: show

Sorry you gott go sig, but glad we finally caught some scum!

I'm not really sure about TB being mafia anymore. Her reactions do read pretty genuine, however....

Golden -- you said that TB was playing her usual civ game and that in previous games she's had pretty spot on insticts, or something like that. However, the two games I've played with Bubbles, mafia won both time and in only one of those games did a mafia get caught and that was because of a little slip up. That is not to say I don't think Bubbles is a good player -- I do. I'm just wondering if you could elaborate as you make it sound like she was top baddy catcher....

And now she’s backed off of her Bubbles suspicion. I’d like Neverwhere to explain why she changed her mind here about Bubbles. Which reactions seemed sincere, and why were they strong enough to get you to change your read completely?

Spoiler: show

I have no idea what is goingon with G - man. Remind me who he replaced again? I need to reread those posts. If you don't want to participate in a meaningful way, why play at all? His wanting to be insanified also make me think maybe he is wanting to inject some fun and humour into the game (its been snarky and stressful) while allowing him an excuse to not contribute and possibly buy him time from having to baddie hunt.

I'm reading scum....

Just to follow up on the previously alluded-to G-man suspicion. Solid, but this post doesn’t really tell me anything about Neverwhere’s alignment.

Spoiler: show

Moses! Have we really only had one succesful night kill? Well done on surviving, Sloonei! I am reading Sloonei as more civ. High contributor and I wonder if maybe he was on to something which is why mafia might want him dead.

Now, who am I looking to lynch today....

Oh cool, I’m a town read. And I like that rhetorical question, neverwhere. You should have answered it yourself right away .

Spoiler: show

Good result! I hope. What has me worried is in fact the hooded people. Is it possible that the mafia recruited or corrupted Sloonei? I remember reading about one of the night 0 PMs having something to do with corruption.

The only one who's expressed suspicions of Nutella, that I can recall, is me, and I didn't write that song.
It was a fun song, and I still think Nutella is flying under the radar, but not enough to get a vote just for that song. Maybe it was done just to cause chaos

Where did Timmer disappear to? He's been much less involved in the last day. I'm worried. I guess the show business isn't for everyone :P

This is a very good point. I had forgotten about possible corruption. Dang.

I was curious to see how the corruption speculation would play out in the thread, and Neverwhere’s one of the few people who picked up on it right away. She doesn’t express suspicion of me being corrupted, as FZ does, but she still acknowledges it as something to be suspicious of without really offering anything new, just leaving it open.
However she does continue to call me a civ read in her next post, suggesting she’s not trying to spin the corruption angle against me. I also like how she pursued me after I mentioned her as a suspect. That’s where my suspicion started to ease up. As soon as I mentioned her name she started expressing interest in hearing what I had to say, which is nice. I’ve finally got around to doing it, and I hope she’s able to respond.
One observation I’m making as I get further into Neverwhere’s posts is that they seem to be getting stronger as the game progresses. I don’t know anything about Neverwhere as a player, but I’ve gathered that this is her first game playing with most of us. How many games have you played overall, Neverwhere?
For now I think I’m gonna put a slight scum read on Neverwhere, noting that this is an improvement from where she was earlier in the game.
Questions for Neverwhere: What do you think of TinyBubbles now, and what changed your mind about her earlier? You also mentioned you’re suspicious of Nutella in your most recent post. Care to elaborate? And as always, any reads you’ve got on anyone are useful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ninjujaja
I’ve been wanting to call Blooper a suspect pretty much all game but I have not been able to. A lot of her posts have read as fairly safe, but I’m not exactly picking up any hints of dishonest or deceit either, and I remember thinking a few of her observations were pretty solid. Let us see.

Spoiler: show

Mmmmk somewhat caught up. I'd say remind me not to leave the thread for too long so I don't have 4 pages to read, but I'll inevitably do it again.

I don't get the Hedgeowl suspicion at all. She posted while catching up and gave her input on a couple main discussions. None of her posts look particularly bad to me, just kind of average minimal-but-sufficient participation. I guess I understood LC's point (though it was regarding SVS) about commenting on issues rather than players, but Hedgie gave her views on LC/Epi/SVS so that doesn't really apply. I don't know, she could be hiding behind that type of participation (I haven't played many games with her but isn't it kind of her norm?) but I just don't really see the reasons for suspecting her, they seem contrived.

I could see SVS as bad. I mean, SVS is always bad

Agreed (at least the part about Hedgeowl suspicion). I think it was good of TH to search her like he did, but I disagree that it's baddie behavior from her. I don't think his suspicion was contrived.

Dragon D. Luffy has been replaced by Cancucklehead. She cannot be lynched today.

what are you so scared of, little puppy?

You didn't witness the maelstrom of deceit that was Canucklehead in Roger Rabbit.

They still whisper about it in Toontown.

(Just kidding, Canuck - I was actually very excited to see your name!)

Consequently, my mafia game, which is often defined by a high volume of posts, will be affected this game. I will be much more likely to pop in less frequently, which will increase my already notoriously long posts probably much more so, and make my style seem more like a cross of Blooper-esque, Epi-esque, and MP-esque, rather than straight-up MP-esque combination of frequency and volume.

I'm an -esque!! I'm so touched

Blooper, you note in this post multiple "truces", but ask the question whether there is just one thereafter. Devin and I never agreed to a truce. Just wanted to clear that up.

You specifically note you have "no strong opinions". If that is the case, do you have weak opinions? If so, what are they?

Fair enough. I just saw a lot of (mostly jokingly it seems) buddy-buddy Day 0 stuff, so I figured I'd comment on it. I'm notoriously bad at getting lost in the first several days of larger games because of the sheer volume of people, so I'm trying a new thing called "comment about SOMETHING, whatever it is" to at least keep a placeholder. So far, not doing so hot. But hey, here I am!

As for my opinions (and the actual contributory points of this post), I have a few opinions. I never trust Epi, but damn I do love actually playing a game with him, and whatever my vibes are right now, I'm feeling all right about him today. This means that I think he's genuinely baddie hunting, and I think both of his suspicions of LC and SVS are fairly sound (I almost said interesting but I know better than to use that now :P). I think LC's response to Epi's going after him looks too defensive to me. I think my general view of SVS is that she gets defensive regardless of alignment, which makes her hard to read, but I agree with others (can't remember exactly who) that suddenly defending the whole "interesting" argument in the manner she did was suspicious. So, there's that.

I don't have a good read of the new people in here, but I'm glad to see some fresh meat (at least to the Syndicate). It certainly makes for some...fascinating gameplay.

I like this as an early post. She offers a number of definitive reads, a few of which I agreed with at the time and nothing in here feels like she is laboring for content. She seems to be keeping an open mind about the game and is at least trying to keep an eye on a number of people at once. Dig it.

Spoiler: show

The bad news is, I've been without internet access since last night due to traveling, power outages, and, y'know, socially interacting with people that I've traveled to see in real life (might need to get my priorities in order). This means I haven't had much of a chance to read through the thread as much as I'd like before the poll ends (I am still socializing after all :P ) or go back and look at something like I promised someone (I can't even remember who I promised this to. Long day).

The good news is, for the first time in my mafia-playing career, I have decent suspicion from what I have been able to gather of all three of the top vote-getters in this thread, and I'm okay with voting any of them, which is...a miracle. The question is, who do I want to pick?

I have been able to read a bit. Cobalt's made me itchy, and I read over the last page and the opportunistic vote switch. I'd still like to analyze him more closely if I get the chance. SVS has been highly, HIGHLY defensive and has weirdly voted for herself, which is something I'm not used to (the self-voting, not the defensiveness), so slightly mixed feelings but very much leaning bad. But tonight, I think I want to make things...interesting. I also like Epi's case and interaction with LC - like it in the way that I think it points to LC as a baddie. Epi's a manipulative bastard, but he's a manipulative bastard giving me good vibes, and I wanna see what happens when I press the big red button that no one should press (and by that I mean make the votes closer right now).

So I'm gonna vote LC.

Linki - Silence broken!

I continue to be wary of anyone who provides an unprompted excuse for their lack of participation, but other than that I dig this post again from ninja for many of the same reasons as before. Her LC vote does seem contrived in any way and does not look like an attempt to bus a teammate. More townie points for Blooper from this post.

Spoiler: show

Also would you say things have been made more interesting by your LC vote, Blooperstranger?

Oh, quite! It's garnered some good reactions.

I had forgotten about her Day 1 “make things interesting” vote comment. It still hasn’t really been explained and I never saw any evidence of her using any of those “good reactions” she garnered from it. If she could give some evidence of this I’d be happy.
There’s nothing that I can point to in Blooper’s post history that I find scummy. This is ridiculous and I’m very frustrated with you, nijfijaijf! I even managed to find reasons to suspect Golden.Ugh.
That said, if there is a reason to suspect her, it’s because of that odd behavior sig had toward her before he was lynched, where he seemed really desperate to put some kind of a read on her but never really expressed anything too clearly. Also, the immaculate status of her posts. They’re too clean. Surely she’s got something to hide. Uh
Thoughts, niju? I’m now in agreement with the others who’ve said you’re difficult to read. If you’re scum then I’m utterly baffled right now. Town read. What just happened?

[Sloonei]

And now for the colorful abridged version. For reference:
Confirmed town
Strong town
Moderate town
Slight town
Neutral
Slight mafia
Moderate mafia
Strong mafia
Confirmed mafia

Spoiler: show

timmer
nijuukyugou
Canucklehead
Golden
Scotty
FZ
Hedgeowl
Cobalt
Black Rock
TinyBubbles
Turnip Head
Bullzeye/DREAM/Devin
fingersplints
Epignosis 2.0, because I've decided I want to take a stance on him.
Gumshoe
Neverwhere
Bass the Clever
Nutella
DFaraday
MetalMarsh

italics used to denote people who I've not ISO'd yet.
I've also not yet factored in interactions with G-man/Gamerguy and new developments.
forgive me if i missed anyone.

[Sloonei]

I'll stop saying things now. I apologize for this page.

[Golden]

I'm also going to do a rainbow today. I just wanted G-Man to be lynched before I did it.

By the way G-Man, I echo what others have said. Thanks for making the game fun, even when you were completely rumbled from the moment you stepped into the game. You really handled that like a pro, and it only makes me have that much more respect for you (as though I needed to have any more after the way you handled economics and biblical as well). Truly, I would sign up for any game where you were playing.

[Golden]

Are you happy now?

I am entertained.

[nutella]

Great result!! Almost had me fooled there with that trolling. A very notorious cat.

[Golden]

@Sloonei - to questions you raised for me.

I do not think I'm playing differently to how I'd usually play as civilian. I'm simply very aware that people do and have made meta-based arguments against me incorrectly, and that they may perceive me differently from game to game. And I'm aware that in the games I've played with Neverwhere, I've very heavily led the thread as a civilian, whereas at the time I said that to Neverwhere I don't think that was true in this game (I actually think it's true now).

As to me theorising a Bubbles/lc/gman/sig team - I was wrong, but we've lynched three of them and they are all bad, so that's not so bad is it? I personally don't think it is a bit of a reach to formulate entire scum teams, and the reason why is because that is always the way I think about the game. I look for a 'theory of the game' and if it feels really strong to me I'll post it. On that day it did.

As for nutella - I think I have been reasonably defensive of her so far, but it's simply because of the number of different people who have managed to say 'she feels bad' but not one person has actually made a case on her that I can understand or see, I just don't see the case. But, I do think that because several people are seeing it, it's time for me to stop working off vibes and read her back.

I expressed my thoughts towards your votes because I assumed you had similar reasons for voting to what mine were for Epignosis the day before. I was surprised by your change of vote - but I do not believe in picking up on and pushing the suspicions of someone who is silenced when they can't speak for themselves. I would have been horrified if Epi had been lynched while I was silenced because I voted for him and others picked it up and ran with it without me even being able to give context as to why. Because my context as to why I voted for epi had literally nothing to do with who I actually was suspicious of.

Did I miss anything?

[Golden]

Sloonei, your read on timmer intrigues me greatly.

Especially because I'm assuming it cannot be based on lynch record, given that I had a pretty key role in LC and G-Man suspicions, as well as being an attempted kill of mafia 2. So I'm not sure it's coming solely from fact.

edit before posting - I just realised you only had him as strong town not 'confirmed' town, which is what I read it as. But I still think the poitn stands, so posting it anyway.

[Sloonei]

What is your read on timmer? I'll get to his ISO soonish, but most of my reads are based on "vibes" and interpretation of posts, and timmer (without having scrutinized him too closely) has been the most consistently town-feeling of any player in this game. He's not "pinged" me once.

[Golden]

I don't really have any strong mafia vibes right now, with the key people I felt strongly about gone. It's time for me to do some new scouting. So starting with moderate vibes. Also putting additional info in brackets sometimes. Someone previously posed the view that in their opinion mafia are replaced before town are. I'm not sure if this always holds true, but I do note that G-Man subbed in for a mafia. This has ironically given me a slight town read on a couple of people.

Moderate mafia read.

Cobalt (mafia 1)

Slight mafia read

Black Rock
DFaraday
Epignosis
FZ
Hedgeowl
Scotty
TinyBubbles

Neutral read

Gumshoe/devin (absent before they contributed a lot, but no evidence they requested a sub early enough or at all to be put in the same boat as dream and bullz)
Bass
Turnip Head

Slight town read

DREAM/bullz (tgg and bwt got the subs)
Ninja
Nutella
Neverwhere
MM
splints
canuck

Very town read

Sloonei
Timmer

[Golden]

Same as yours - as noted above. Timmer has been influential in helping form my own opinions in this game. I really did mostly ask those questions because it looked like you had him as confirmed but then you didn't, but I do look forward to your iso.

[Golden]

I also do note that at the time of my rainbow I have read none of your ISOs except the one on me, I'm going to go back and read the rest now.

[Golden]

Scotty, no, I'm not sure that corruption means the player will change to bad, but I want to be sure about this, because if any of us were bad and could recruit or something of the sort, we'd take the most trusted player in the game. Right now, that's obviously Sloonei. So unless someone saved him, or he has a power to survive a NK on his own, I would be quite worried.

As for Golden voting Epi, that's a very weird choice, and I think we should think about why it's there. I doubt he was forced to do it, because Epig was not a high candidate for a lynch, so why waste it on him. So it seems he voted Epi for a good reason, at least to him.

Oh, and Neverwhere just reminded me about Splints.
Splints, of course civvies hesitate, but I think your choices for baddies are too easy. I think Bubbles is not bad, and based on his recent posts, I don't see Bass as bad either. I could be wrong of course, but it seems as if you chose the easy targets.

@sloonei, this is the post that first pinged me about FZ. Particularly, the middle paragraph. I do not at all like her attempt to read meaning in to my vote for epi while I'm not around to provide context. Particularly when she explains away the possibility of the vote being forced when I had no previous form for suspecting epi.

I've also subsequently been pinged about her focus on you as the corruptee, primarily because this does not back it up at all:

SLOONEI sits on the floor. Silence. A pair of roller-skates with blades on them whiz by, only to just miss. ENTER two HOODED FIGURES. They shake hands, and ascend out.

SLOONEI exits SR.

I would think if this post indicated Wildhorn successfully corrupted someone, wildhorn is one hooded figure and the person corrupted is the other. But the two of them leave, and THEN sloonei exits stage right. For me, this borders on evidence that if there was a corruption, it is NOT sloonei - a point I've already made before. Certainly, it at least provides no evidence it would be you...

I have the vague theory that FZ could be on mafia team 2, could have a role that controls votes (or with a teammate who controls votes) and knows whether a corruption occurred and who did it, and that these posts are deliberate distancing.

I wouldn't say this is an exceptionally strong read, but I'm wary of FZ right now.

I do think she is genuinely baddie hunting (eg posts on splints) but in this game you can do that and still be bad.

[Sloonei]

I should have picked a lighter shade of blue for my strong town reads. Will make that adjustment in rainbows of the future.

Scotty, Cobalt, and Metalmarsh are the reads I'm most intrigued by on your rainbow. Those are the three places we seem to disagree the most. Care to elaborate on those three?

[Golden]

In fact sloonei, I just looked at our rainbows, and they are almost polar opposite right now. You are suspecting a completely different set of people to me.

Some other things I don't like.

I don't like that epi has minimised the fact that he refuted that his 2.0 is quieter than his 1.0.

He said this:

That said, I don't care how many times you refute it Epig, you've been posting very differently than your first day style.

How many times have I refuted it?

It's technically true that he has never said "Thats not true" but he has implied it, eg:

and epi's has been very quiet compared to earlier in the thread when he had a different role (if i recall correctly?) which is also making me wary

Very quiet.

Very quiet.

[Sloonei]

Scotty, no, I'm not sure that corruption means the player will change to bad, but I want to be sure about this, because if any of us were bad and could recruit or something of the sort, we'd take the most trusted player in the game. Right now, that's obviously Sloonei. So unless someone saved him, or he has a power to survive a NK on his own, I would be quite worried.

As for Golden voting Epi, that's a very weird choice, and I think we should think about why it's there. I doubt he was forced to do it, because Epig was not a high candidate for a lynch, so why waste it on him. So it seems he voted Epi for a good reason, at least to him.

Oh, and Neverwhere just reminded me about Splints.
Splints, of course civvies hesitate, but I think your choices for baddies are too easy. I think Bubbles is not bad, and based on his recent posts, I don't see Bass as bad either. I could be wrong of course, but it seems as if you chose the easy targets.

@sloonei, this is the post that first pinged me about FZ. Particularly, the middle paragraph. I do not at all like her attempt to read meaning in to my vote for epi while I'm not around to provide context. Particularly when she explains away the possibility of the vote being forced when I had no previous form for suspecting epi.

I've also subsequently been pinged about her focus on you as the corruptee, primarily because this does not back it up at all:

SLOONEI sits on the floor. Silence. A pair of roller-skates with blades on them whiz by, only to just miss. ENTER two HOODED FIGURES. They shake hands, and ascend out.

SLOONEI exits SR.

I would think if this post indicated Wildhorn successfully corrupted someone, wildhorn is one hooded figure and the person corrupted is the other. But the two of them leave, and THEN sloonei exits stage right. For me, this borders on evidence that if there was a corruption, it is NOT sloonei - a point I've already made before. Certainly, it at least provides no evidence it would be you...

I have the vague theory that FZ could be on mafia team 2, could have a role that controls votes (or with a teammate who controls votes) and knows whether a corruption occurred and who did it, and that these posts are deliberate distancing.

I wouldn't say this is an exceptionally strong read, but I'm wary of FZ right now.

I do think she is genuinely baddie hunting (eg posts on splints) but in this game you can do that and still be bad.

These are solid points. I've been saying that I find her paranoia about the possibility of corruption to be a point in her favor, but it seems like she's really the only one in the thread who's bringing it up at all right now. The thing that strikes me most in that post of hers is when she says she doubts you were "forced" to vote for Epi. I don't know where she would even get such a notion, is there any evidence that there have been forced votes in this game?

[Golden]

I go back and forth on Scotty, perhaps neutral would have been a better place for him. I'll need to read back on that one and really present an informed view. For now, read it as 'some of the things Scotty says bother me a little'. It may be down to newness at the game. Scotty is SO town-sounding when it comes to a whole lot of aspects of the game. I particularly need to look back at his views on LC. I don't think Scotty is on team 1.

I see epi's theory about the team that killed him being full of newer people as holding weight. I've always thought his tgg/sig/cobalt theory could hold weight. That's why I have cobalt at the top of my list. I'm also still not convinced that the day two shenanigans with cobalt/LC weren't a tactic. Want to know why? Because I've pulled exactly those kind of shenanigans with LC on a baddie team, and we both had a lot of fun doing it. I know LC has fun with that kind of thing. And honestly, who really suspects Cobalt right now? If that was the plan, it appears to have worked. Notice Cobalt has also gone quieter the moment he has the civ cred he craved? I'm not feeling great about cobalt right now at all.

I see no reason to see MM as bad. He feels the same as the MM I'm used to. Why do you? (Hold that - I'll read your ISO). I think his analysis of how LC was sig's teammate was very persuasive, and not something I see him doing if he was on LC's mafia team 2 (why bother trying to link him to sig if you are bussing him?) It's something I guess I could see if he was sig's teammate, so he could possibly be mafia team 1.

@sloonei - there had been no evidence of forced votes at all at the time she said it. But I very much wanted to vote for G-Man or LC that day.

[Sloonei]

I would also say that Dom's post suggests I'm not involved in any way with the hooded figures/possible corruption. FZ's theory about me being the target has struck me, again, as just honest paranoia, but the more she sticks with it the worse it looks. She hasn't pushed it very hard, but it could be that she's just gauging the thread's interest in the theory to see if lynching me would be possible. I could see scum wanting to get either one of us lynched after failing to nightkill us. This theory just popped into my head right now. Hm. Now I'm seriously reconsidering FZ.

[Sloonei]

For what it's worth, I can totally see Sloonei on Long Con's team. Not as a recruit but as a full-fledged member. Look at his vote history. His Day 1 vote pulled Cobalt ahead of Long Con.* His late Day 2 vote could be viewed as a form of insurance in case Cobalt was capable of deflecting the lynch to the second-highest vote recipient. He is the first vote registered on Day 3 against Sig.** His Day 4 vote for Long Con came well after Long Con's lead over me was re-established and Long Con's lynching seemed inevitable. Today's vote is difficult to explain other than him voting immediately to signify that he was silenced. It is also changeable, allowing him to draw attention to other players by switching his vote to them and eventually joining the flock to pile on me late in the day.


*Day 1's votes were changeable, so the true timing of his vote on my charts is uncertain.
**Same goes for Day 3.

Should I respond to this theory?

[Golden]

You are now seeing things exactly the way I've been seeing them.

Even if it simply disestablishes some of the influence you have in the thread it could do a job.

And I'm not saying 'sloonei cannot be corrupted' - it's possible you have been. And I agree with healthy paranoia. I just am concerned at the view that the healthy paranoia should only be aimed at you. It should apply to everyone.

@sloonei - yes you should, because I actually think it holds more weight than the 'corrupted' theory.

[Golden]

And because, whatever else G-Man was doing, I certainly believe he was hunting for LC's teammates.

[Scotty]

So I'm currently packing and am traveling all tomorrow. I plan to do some drafting on my flight as well as hopefully get around to reading and responding to Golden/Sloonei's chronicles. Either way, looks like there's a lot to talk about this night phase!

[Sloonei]

For what it's worth, I can totally see Sloonei on Long Con's team. Not as a recruit but as a full-fledged member. Look at his vote history. His Day 1 vote pulled Cobalt ahead of Long Con.* His late Day 2 vote could be viewed as a form of insurance in case Cobalt was capable of deflecting the lynch to the second-highest vote recipient. He is the first vote registered on Day 3 against Sig.** His Day 4 vote for Long Con came well after Long Con's lead over me was re-established and Long Con's lynching seemed inevitable. Today's vote is difficult to explain other than him voting immediately to signify that he was silenced. It is also changeable, allowing him to draw attention to other players by switching his vote to them and eventually joining the flock to pile on me late in the day.


*Day 1's votes were changeable, so the true timing of his vote on my charts is uncertain.
**Same goes for Day 3.

I expressed a number of times that I hated the case against Long Con on Day 1. I never considered him for my vote that day because the points being made against him did not inspire me one bit. My Day 2 vote was put on Black Rock for no reason whatsoever. I had previously voted for Sig at the start of the day, but the poll was reset. On days where votes aren't changeable, I've been holding on to my vote as long possible, so by the time I revoted that day, Cobalt's lead was insurmountable and I was just voting to fulfill my obligation. I didn't believe Cobalt's claims at the time, for what it's worth. Day 3 I voted for sig right away because sig was my top suspect. Sig was scum, I was very pleased with that one. G-man's analysis of my Day 4 vote is completely off. This is, again, a day without changeable votes, so I was waiting as long as I could. I was only going to vote for G-man or Long Con, and I only had a short window while I was on break at work to do it. A vote for G-man at the time would have put them within 1 vote of each other. LC's lead in the poll was far from established. I didn't want a tie. I voted for Long Con.

I also wanted to observe at the time this post was made that this is where pure vote analysis is blind. I encourage you, or anyone who might be intrigued by this theory, to look at my post history and see how this theory looks then.

[Golden]

Neverwhere has only played two games with about 12-13 players before this one Sloonei. She was also mafia in both of those games (and won them both). I too have noticed that Neverwhere's posts have become stronger and expressed more independent reads in recent days. This is what has led me to give her a slight town read. Her posts feel to me to be consistent with someone who is finding her feet as a civilian for the first time and learning to play from in front of the game instead of trying to hide in the pack.

[Sloonei]

Neverwhere has only played two games with about 12-13 players before this one Sloonei. She was also mafia in both of those games (and won them both). I too have noticed that Neverwhere's posts have become stronger and expressed more independent reads in recent days. This is what has led me to give her a slight town read. Her posts feel to me to be consistent with someone who is finding her feet as a civilian for the first time and learning to play from in front of the game instead of trying to hide in the pack.

Cool, thanks. This is definitely the vibe I got from the progression of her posts. But I could also see it as a scum player getting more comfortable with their false persona. I'd like to see her response to my case about her, but I felt better about her after doing the ISO than I did before it. Not enough to make her a town read, though.

[Golden]

I also wanted to observe at the time this post was made that this is where pure vote analysis is blind. I encourage you, or anyone who might be intrigued by this theory, to look at my post history and see how this theory looks then.

But sometimes this is actually where pure vote analysis is perceptive. Baddies can create great thread context to their votes, but the votes themselves can be the indicator of their true motivations. I also think there is some merit to the idea that you have less experience with votes that are not changeable and those days might be more likely to expose you than changeable vote days?

[Sloonei]

I also wanted to observe at the time this post was made that this is where pure vote analysis is blind. I encourage you, or anyone who might be intrigued by this theory, to look at my post history and see how this theory looks then.

But sometimes this is actually where pure vote analysis is perceptive. Baddies can create great thread context to their votes, but the votes themselves can be the indicator of their true motivations. I also think there is some merit to the idea that you have less experience with votes that are not changeable and those days might be more likely to expose you than changeable vote days?

As I'm a "very town read" on your rainbow, I take it you don't currently support the theory but are keeping an open mind to it, which is fine and I approve. If you have any deeper thoughts and analysis of it I'd love to hear it. And anyone else who wants to weigh in on this absolutely should.

[Golden]

Yeah, it's devils advocate, but I'm still interested in your response to it.

[Sloonei]

I do not think I could respond any better than I already have with the case as it currently exists. I feel I've explained all my votes as thoroughly as I could at the time I cast them and still stand by all of them.

[Golden]

And also, I entirely believe in what I just said about pure vote analysis being perceptive. I just don't agree with G-Man's theory that you are bad.

In Biblical Mafia, the baddies knew that G-Man and I were heavily using vote analysis (Balaam's trademarked technicolour rainbow vote analysis), they set out to vote in a way that would hide from it, and it was still the tool that I found most useful to catch them.

linki - fair enough.