Escape From Russia [GAME OVER]

[DrWilgy]

tonys wagon has a lot of my town core on it so maybe it’s that

And then this happened followed by this:

[VOTE: trip] aubergine

sure fine whatever

[DrWilgy]

BUT who knows. The dichotomy between 112 and Hally is weird. At least one is a wolf. Not sure if both are. Personally think it's 70-30 in Hally's favor.

[Epignosis]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

[DrWilgy]

Like... I don't see why Hally doesn't vote Tony or 112 day 1.

[DrWilgy]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

indecision and the Tony vote seems easy for a town who specifically states:

tonys wagon has a lot of my town core on it so maybe it’s that

But for some reason didn't happen.

[Epignosis]

Like... I don't see why Hally doesn't vote Tony or 112 day 1.

I can see why Hally doesn't vote for 112 Day 1. 112 had one vote.

Who voted T. Haven first?

[DrWilgy]

And that's why we should eat Hally and 112 at the same time.

going back to sleep now. lmk when I'm yeeted.

[Ash Lael]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

At the death when I was frantically pushing to try to get Tony over the line, Hally was the one pushing back against me. Despite allegedly not having a townread on Tony.

[DrWilgy]

Let me go to sleep papa epi.

Like... I don't see why Hally doesn't vote Tony or 112 day 1.

I can see why Hally doesn't vote for 112 Day 1. 112 had one vote.

Who voted T. Haven first?

I did.

112 had more votes earlier in the day cycle to the point where 112 could have been a contest for yeet if wanted. The fact that Trip got enough votes in such a short span of time is testament to the fact that there were people that wanted 112 and Tony alive.

[Epignosis]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

At the death when I was frantically pushing to try to get Tony over the line, Hally was the one pushing back against me. Despite allegedly not having a townread on Tony.

Has Hally answered this charge?

[Ash Lael]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

At the death when I was frantically pushing to try to get Tony over the line, Hally was the one pushing back against me. Despite allegedly not having a townread on Tony.

Has Hally answered this charge?

I mean, you’ve read today. She’s basically told me “tunnel me if you want you’re wrong I don’t care.”

[tedxtr]

She did

She said she should be lock cleared based off the progression, because it’s bad but in a villagery bad way

[Epignosis]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

At the death when I was frantically pushing to try to get Tony over the line, Hally was the one pushing back against me. Despite allegedly not having a townread on Tony.

Has Hally answered this charge?

I mean, you’ve read today. She’s basically told me “tunnel me if you want you’re wrong I don’t care.”

I have read nothing today other than that which I have posted about.

[Epignosis]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

At the death when I was frantically pushing to try to get Tony over the line, Hally was the one pushing back against me. Despite allegedly not having a townread on Tony.

Has Hally answered this charge?

I mean, you’ve read today. She’s basically told me “tunnel me if you want you’re wrong I don’t care.”

What was your Day 1 case against Tony? I'd like to read it if you have a convenient link.

[Long Con]

Like... I don't see why Hally doesn't vote Tony or 112 day 1.

I can see why Hally doesn't vote for 112 Day 1. 112 had one vote.

Who voted T. Haven first?

Nanook?

[Long Con]

Never mind, damn no linki.

[Long Con]

It would be cool if people I think are town (ash) could stop scumreading other people I think are town (tsp)

Kthx

if i ask why you’re so sure tony is town, would that be a fruitful endeavor or nah?

Probably not tbh

He just...he seems the same as past games we’ve played together, including ones where I very quickly and correctly called him town. Idk. He just has a feel, idk how to explain it

have you seen him as mafia ever?

I’ve done my research yeah


Also not sure why the “have you seen him mafia?” caveat applies to TSP but not tutu?

dunno. why is that important?

If one player in this quote is Tony's teammate, who is it?

[Ash Lael]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

At the death when I was frantically pushing to try to get Tony over the line, Hally was the one pushing back against me. Despite allegedly not having a townread on Tony.

Has Hally answered this charge?

I mean, you’ve read today. She’s basically told me “tunnel me if you want you’re wrong I don’t care.”

What was your Day 1 case against Tony? I'd like to read it if you have a convenient link.

I first started suspecting him because his tone and energy seemed different than his town games I've seen.

Then he made a read on your slot saying that Dunya was town because she didn't scumread one of Vulgard/Arete (who were scumreading each other at the time), said a wolf would have put one in the PoE. I thought that argument only made sense if vul/Arete were both town, which he shouldn't have had any reason to assume.

Basically he slipped with TMI.

Hally's response was "No, that's not a TMI slip Tony's too good a wolf to make a mistake like that."

[Epignosis]

I can't copy and paste from the Day 1 poll as I would like, but why is Hally more suspicious than anybody else who voted for TripleHaven?

At the death when I was frantically pushing to try to get Tony over the line, Hally was the one pushing back against me. Despite allegedly not having a townread on Tony.

Has Hally answered this charge?

I mean, you’ve read today. She’s basically told me “tunnel me if you want you’re wrong I don’t care.”

What was your Day 1 case against Tony? I'd like to read it if you have a convenient link.

I first started suspecting him because his tone and energy seemed different than his town games I've seen.

Then he made a read on your slot saying that Dunya was town because she didn't scumread one of Vulgard/Arete (who were scumreading each other at the time), said a wolf would have put one in the PoE. I thought that argument only made sense if vul/Arete were both town, which he shouldn't have had any reason to assume.

Basically he slipped with TMI.

Hally's response was "No, that's not a TMI slip Tony's too good a wolf to make a mistake like that."

Okay.

Suppertime.

[112]

i am a martyr

[Ash Lael]

ash convince me to vote tony

ash convince me to vote tony

Because when I first confronted him about why couldn’t wolf dunya have put one of Vulgard/Arete in PoE if she had a partner there, he made an argument about why dunya would have done that to her partner.

When I confronted him again more recently he made up that he had a strong townread on Arete and thought she couldn’t be partnered with Dunya for that reason.

Inconsistent reasons because the real reason is he knows they are both town and forgot he wasn’t supposed to know that.

not really convinced sorry

ash convince me to vote tony

Because when I first confronted him about why couldn’t wolf dunya have put one of Vulgard/Arete in PoE if she had a partner there, he made an argument about why dunya would have done that to her partner.

When I confronted him again more recently he made up that he had a strong townread on Arete and thought she couldn’t be partnered with Dunya for that reason.

Inconsistent reasons because the real reason is he knows they are both town and forgot he wasn’t supposed to know that.

do you have any other reasons because I've heard this one several times

Yeah your energy is different.

how do you know?

ash convince me to vote tony

Because when I first confronted him about why couldn’t wolf dunya have put one of Vulgard/Arete in PoE if she had a partner there, he made an argument about why dunya would have done that to her partner.

When I confronted him again more recently he made up that he had a strong townread on Arete and thought she couldn’t be partnered with Dunya for that reason.

Inconsistent reasons because the real reason is he knows they are both town and forgot he wasn’t supposed to know that.

do you have any other reasons because I've heard this one several times

Yeah your energy is different.

how do you know?

Because I saw tony in g7 and SF1 and he had a different energy about him that he doesn’t have here.

i don’t think that comparing him to a champs environment is valid. im sure i also have a bit of a different energy from champs too

like, you may be right ash. i have no idea. but the strength of the arguments you’re making is very weak compared to the confidence you have in the read. you know you have a tendency to tunnel a lot as town. idk why you don’t take a breath

like, you may be right ash. i have no idea. but the strength of the arguments you’re making is very weak compared to the confidence you have in the read. you know you have a tendency to tunnel a lot as town. idk why you don’t take a breath

You think everyone is town, why should I care that you think Tony is town?

you don’t have to care. im not asking you to change your read. im simply asking you to step back and consider that tony could be town and what that could mean. just try to see him as town and hear what others are saying. and if you still feel he’s mafia after you do that, it’s perfectly fine to keep pushing him

For Epi, here's a bunch of quotes all from page 52 of Hally discrediting my push on Tony.

[Ash Lael]

This was just minutes before deadline, incidentally. There was no time to "step back and reconsider". She was just trying to make me stop pushing.

[Arete]

TSP spew analysis

Gonna kill Nanook first

I think this is a very slightly good look for Nanook, I think a wolf would be unlikely to put a partner as their theoretical N1 kill target while "jokingly" scumclaiming

on page 8, going to take a break and catch up later

could vulgard be any more obviously scum?

tell me more

His tone is incredibly forced/stilted and he keeps repeating his cases in a way that makes me think he's trying to mimic a proper progression on people.

re: tone i think he just writes like that

i don’t understand what you mean by the bolded

By the bolded I mean that he keeps bringing things up that he's already said before, such as that he doesn't like the posters who claimed maf. It seems like he's trying to write every read he has out to such a detailed extent that nobody can question the work he's put in/the quality of his thoughts, but it just comes out looking like he's trying very hard to remember the reasons he's scumread peope--something that town don't have to do because they've already internalized their opinions.

this feels chainsaw-y.

marking this to see if they follow up on it at any point

sorry guys, i was feeling pretty lousy and turns out i had some food poisoning and im still a little out of it but im here

gth reads without reading the thread, but a few tone-posts from each player here we go

112 - w
Arete - t
Ash Lael - w
DrWilgy - t
Hally - w
Long Con - t
Michelle - w
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - t
Poison Chan - t
tedxtr - w
TonyStarkPrime - t
TripleHaven - t
tutuu - t
Vulgard - t

my poe is
112
ash
hally
michelle
ted

i wanna say my strongest town reads are nanook and longcon tbh. my weakest wolf read is ted, so i will not vote for him until day 3 at least.

the person i think most likely could swing w from my t reads is vulgard for possible tmi, but i will eventually read up (or not) see what he has to offer.

high poster hally in a vacuum should be town, but i felt like she was gaslighting us with questions and content which she doesn't really build from. like they're prods and questions which she doesn't really care about one way or the other.

don't really know much about tsp, except he didn't like one of my posts and i like that reaction. no idea if triplehaven has posted yet, i'll get there.

wilgy im giving a soul town read to.

The bolded is always a weird thing to think about. I think because Dunya expressed it directly here maybe it's more likely to come from town? Level 1 is it means w!dunya because t!dunya gets mad at me for an incorrect read, but I don't think Dunya plays like that.
It's a decent looking poe though. Neither of arete or vulgard. I think scum who's skimming would throw one in.

Also, TR on LC. Spicy.

I'll move my vote for now.

this read being somewhat more detailed than most of TSP's might be a slightly good look for Dunya/Epi? in my experience wolves are more likely to give detailed reads on villagers than on wolves

the random callout of the TR on LC feels weird, like, that's not the only anti-consensus read they had

tell me more

His tone is incredibly forced/stilted and he keeps repeating his cases in a way that makes me think he's trying to mimic a proper progression on people.

re: tone i think he just writes like that

i don’t understand what you mean by the bolded

By the bolded I mean that he keeps bringing things up that he's already said before, such as that he doesn't like the posters who claimed maf. It seems like he's trying to write every read he has out to such a detailed extent that nobody can question the work he's put in/the quality of his thoughts, but it just comes out looking like he's trying very hard to remember the reasons he's scumread peope--something that town don't have to do because they've already internalized their opinions.

this feels chainsaw-y.

how?

112 is going after Vulgard for his cases, particularly parts where it's claimed that he's repeated ideas that others have stated. But generally I think this is inaccurate. Vulgard seems to be in some ways the least conventional person in the game, he's playing it differently. Stilted, maybe. But not repetitive. Hypothesis then, there's a common case that Vulgard has picked up on that implicates a partner of 112. 112 seeks to discredit this general case by discrediting Vulgard.
Feels weak tbh but it's something. If like Tutuu is scum I think that'd be a strong association

progression/follow-up on their 112 read feels like a decent look for 112?

Still no take on Ted, but do I ever have a take on ted?

this is kind of , like, here he's calling out his lack of a take on Ted and then preemtively excusing it because he never has a take on Ted. feels kinda partnery.

i know i haven't had too many posts this game, but i feel like ted isn't involved even when he is posting. he drops a thought or two but seems to be hanging out on the outside of the game in a way.

Counterpoint, I almost always feel this way about Ted. Well, this isn't true. I dunno. I seem to recall having a good streak of finding him as town earlier in the year after GoC. He was a wolf in GoC, right

Yeah, he was a wolf and he tricked me. But I found him in a few games after, then he was a wolf in abdimals and was null all game. I dunno. Maybe to save for later.

He's pretty similar to Abadiamals but I'm comfortable saying that I don't feel comfortable reading Ted off that.

him continuing to defer on Ted and not give a real read is making me feel worse about Ted

@TonyStarkPrime - thoughts on Dunya?

Wouldn't chop today. Good content, spicy takes, not concerned about thread posiiton. Still -- that thread position is relatively weak. If Dunya is town I expect it to improve over time.

this feels more like a wolf trying to leave themselves open to pushing a villager later than like hedging their read on a partner

So it's not LC, not Nanook, not Vulgard. Not going to chop Dunya or Arete. Everyone else fair game?

GTH there's exactly 1 wolf in the list

admittedly that's WifoM

out of the people in the list LC is the one I'm feeling worst about

Voting for Wilgy always feels wrong

I think I've avoided voting for Wilgy the last two times he rolled wolf just becuase it felt weird

these don't really feel aligned with Wilgy

why would it mean that

So there are a few options here:

1) t!Tutuu is playing as Tutuu always does. I'm paranoid for no reason. You are correct. Then me thinking that it's weird that you don't think Tutuu is playing differently is wrong. That'd be how I'd be wrong.
or 2) t!tutuu is projecting towniness by thinking she's playing as she always does while her actual game is different for completely unrelated reasons
3) w!tutuu options I won't split up

what does any of this have to do with my alignment?

also did you expect tutuu to say she was playing differently if shes scum?

it has to do with your alignment because lying is anti town, and because I had thought that Tutuu was obviously different and thus for denying this clear truth you were more likely scum.

if tutuu's scum then she'd know she was playing differently. She wouldn't deny it then, I think. Also, denying it has a good thread position if w!tutuu, since it makes everyone look bad.

oh wait when you said you were wrong about me you meant wrong about me being scum? so you tr me now? but i thought you tr me before? when did you sr me? did i just forget that happened

I neither town read nor scum read you. Overall there has been nothing that moves you to the "Hally town" category but frankly I've just witnessed you play two excellent scum games and on this I might be hesistant to throw you in that category for those reasons. I think you have a good thread position, but there are negatives. Which is actually the same as tutuu, dunya, poison. Probably the same as Vul for people who scum read Vul.

ash gonna be like

"tsp hedging he wolf somethin somethin"

Ash is town

not that that wasn't already obvious from how he single-handedly spent several days dunking on TSP

but he's town

this is my commentary thread where I comment on the events of the day

Can you just give me at least a read list?

top tier:

vul
nanook

weh tier (don't chop):
hally
LC
arete
tutuu

give a day, maybe:
michelle
poison
the two nulls
ted
dunya


actively wolfy:
ash
112

this makes me think that Nanook was more likely to just be a wrong villager than a wolf, obviously there are exceptions but I rarely see people powerwolfy enough to just mutually lock each other town when they're Mafia

Ted can be top town as a treat, but I recall SK doing the same "everyone be townier" thing in G7. I think I'm arbitrarily leery there.

I have no idea what this post means


ftr there are a bunch more Tony posts where he responds to Ash's push on him that look unaligned but I'm lazy and I don't think I particularly need to towncase Ash anyways, so

I too would like to chop Ash

why not 112?

get me up to speed, who're your top scum reads?

Top scum read is still 112 but I don't have the best track record reading 112. Michelle is trending downwards, I didn't like her interactions with Poison but I might be missing something. Wilgy's always a ? And Ash is some Australian dude who thinks I'm a wolf and that's suspicious.

the way TSP undermines his own scumread on 112 here feels like a wolf with TMI on a villager who doesn't want to look bad if 112 gets voted out and flips town, not like a wolf hedging on a partner. if they're W/W with 112 they don't need to talk about how bad they are at reading them

the difference between kant and aristotle is that I want to punch aristotle and I just want Kant to implant his brain into mine because I've bene listening to this guy talk about about what a judgment is for 40 minutes and I wont make it much longer

top 3 wolf reads now go

I gave you this just a second ago

112
ash
michelle

meh

if I try to Ro3 this it points to 112 more than anyone but I don't really think anyone listed in this post is a wolf

they have a whole bunch of posts on page 6 of their Iso specifically tying Hally and Wilgy together, I think Hally and Wilgy are never W/W for that

his posts at EoD2 seem s t r o n g l y oriented towards making sure Michelle gets chopped over LC, I think that's a worse look for LC

Spoiler: show

LC and Michelle please "self pres" sooner rather than later so nothing disastrous happens

@Long Con fix this

this always ends poorly

okay fixed

gotta add two more to that list michelle

hold the line

not holding the line is how we get a tie

it's a tie

[Arete]

so to summarize:

I think TSP spew is a better look for Ash and 112, and a somewhat better look for Nanook, Wilgy, and Dunya/Epi in roughly that order

I think it's a worse look for LC and Ted (ftr I haven't looked at interactions from Ted's side yet

and I think Hally/Wilgy are basically never W/W

[Arete]

why is 112 a wagon, I really don't think the way TSP handled her is partner-indicative

[112]

why is 112 a wagon, I really don't think the way TSP handled her is partner-indicative

[Arete]

[VOTE: Hally] aubergine

this wagon is not the 112 wagon and therefore better

also I vaguely think that Hally's WiM crashing after Tony died is scum-AI

but mostly this wagon is not the 112 wagon

[Epignosis]

the way TSP undermines his own scumread on 112 here feels like a wolf with TMI on a villager who doesn't want to look bad if 112 gets voted out and flips town, not like a wolf hedging on a partner. if they're W/W with 112 they don't need to talk about how bad they are at reading them

Or TSP and 112 are partners and TSP doesn't want any traction in that direction.

[Arete]

the way TSP undermines his own scumread on 112 here feels like a wolf with TMI on a villager who doesn't want to look bad if 112 gets voted out and flips town, not like a wolf hedging on a partner. if they're W/W with 112 they don't need to talk about how bad they are at reading them

Or TSP and 112 are partners and TSP doesn't want any traction in that direction.

do you think that the presence or absence of that line meaningfully changed the amount of traction 112 got

[Epignosis]

the way TSP undermines his own scumread on 112 here feels like a wolf with TMI on a villager who doesn't want to look bad if 112 gets voted out and flips town, not like a wolf hedging on a partner. if they're W/W with 112 they don't need to talk about how bad they are at reading them

Or TSP and 112 are partners and TSP doesn't want any traction in that direction.

do you think that the presence or absence of that line meaningfully changed the amount of traction 112 got

It doesn't matter how effective it was. It doesn't alter the intent.

[Hally]

[VOTE: sleep] aubergine

i don’t want to vote 112

[Epignosis]

Be back in one hour.

[Hally]

i think i should be eliminated here. not even kidding. there’s no way i’ll ever clear myself and you all need to focus on Not Me people

[Hally]

this is not a ploy. like i genuinely think it’s healthier for this game if im not in it

[Hally]

also as a side note i actually misread tonys posts on ted and they’re a worse look with the correct interpretation. so consider that maybe

poison, ash and arete are never mafia. nook probably isn’t either. beyond that my confidence dwindles but i trust you all to figure it out

[Hally]

also please don’t listen to ted about arete

[Arete]

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I kind of feel like Tony's EoD2 points to a wolf being up as a wagon and I don't think their last second EoD1 vote is clearing

will switch back if wagons keep being 112/Hally

[Hally]

[VOTE: lc] aubergine

sure

[Hally]

i honestly think 112 is town. if im getting owned im getting owned but it feels wrong to vote her

[Hally]

also feel like wilgy is just a villager. his tunnel on me feels too smug to be malicious. i think he genuinely thinks im mafia

epi also has posted nothing suspicious that i can detect. seems like town!epi when he’s here

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Long COn] aubergine

Be back in 48 minutes.

[Long Con]

Nope.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I kind of feel like Tony's EoD2 points to a wolf being up as a wagon and I don't think their last second EoD1 vote is clearing

will switch back if wagons keep being 112/Hally

Tony is smiling up in mafia heaven.

[Long Con]

Epignosis' reason for suspecting me is mostly or all OMGUS.

Epignosis has a much larger volume of 112 suspicion. BIG case, drawing out many points.

112 is in trouble; Epignosis votes for Long Con.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis' reason for suspecting me is mostly or all OMGUS.

Epignosis has a much larger volume of 112 suspicion. BIG case, drawing out many points.

112 is in trouble; Epignosis votes for Long Con.

Or I keep my mouth shut and 112 stays out of trouble.

Be back in 30 minutes.

[Long Con]

Don't understand. 112 is already in trouble.

[Long Con]

Looking at dunya and 112. dunya pushes on 112 all day 1, and leaves her vote there despite it being a vanity wagon at the time. I believe this is distancing from a teammate. She drops little tidbits like the following two posts:

i also don't believe that post where hally saw 112's scum game on here and called her play itt as spontaneous or looser. i did not get that impression from her iso at all, just the opposite. would be interesting to see what hally's role is if 112 flips mafia. <---- use for future ref.

so im looking at michelle's iso. how did she go from having good feelings about me from the last time i posted to...bad feelings about me?

Cause she's a wolf.

can you link me to why as im sure you have a reason posted but forgive me for not being up to date (im trying to stay current and say down with ketchup, but happy to iso people)

I won't bother linking because I've said various things throughout the thread but haven't gone and made like one big wallpost on him or anything. But the first thing that set me off was him pre-announcing that he was going to play differently this game. And then a bunch of times I felt like what he was saying didn't feel genuine. I got really set off by him townreading Arete early for what looked like nothing to me and that he couldn't articulate why. And I didn't like him locktowning tony and trying to lynch lhf instead.

But I dunno. He looks really genuine at the moment. Feeling like I could have misjudged.

i am confused

@tedxtr why wont you vote 112?

...intended to implicate Hally and tedxtr if 112 gets chopped.

The team is Epignosis and 112.

[Long Con]

<---- use for future ref.

This is screaming at me right now.

[Arete]

<---- use for future ref.

This is screaming at me right now.

?

what post is this quoting from?

[Long Con]

The dunya one in the post above.