The Syndicate

I'm out of time.

[VOTE: Turnip Head] aubergine for self preservation. I think he and Speed are equally good lynches at this point.

Okay, I walked into that one. Point Epi.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:12 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:08 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:05 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:59 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:17 pm Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

My vote is on Sloonei. Am I doing better?

You're voting for someone no one else is voting for with a few hours left, and meanwhile throwing shade in a couple other directions. Is that better?

If that's your concern, I can remedy that.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

Yeah, if you prefer.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:00 pm [VOTE: TSP] aubergine I feel reasonably confident with this vote

This is...ehhh.

I need to find time to complete my ISO of Turnip.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:07 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:59 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:45 pm [VOTE: radish] aubergine

I've been thinking about it, and I'm feeling a TMI vibe from radishes, he is too sure that I'm Civ.

Are you a civ?

Then maybe I'm just good at playing this game and I figured out you were a civ.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:05 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:59 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:17 pm Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

My vote is on Sloonei. Am I doing better?

You're voting for someone no one else is voting for with a few hours left, and meanwhile throwing shade in a couple other directions. Is that better?

Okay, one person did. And now he's done it. Never mind, I was just too quick to notice.

People are moving votes without calling it in thread. I thought that was bad etiquette.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:45 pm [VOTE: radish] aubergine

I've been thinking about it, and I'm feeling a TMI vibe from radishes, he is too sure that I'm Civ.

Are you a civ?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:17 pm Blah blah blah making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically I was uncertain about leetic's alignment and adjusted my stance slightly a few times over 72 hours? Wow. Thank god we have you on the case.

As you like to say, do better.

I have TH to ISO still. Dinner first.

Speedchuck

To jump to my conclusions: everything in Speedchuck's ISO could easily be produced by a wolf. It's surface-level, it's more questions than answers, it does little to advance the game state, etc. Is it a hard scumread? No. It wouldn't be the first time a lost villager is mistaken for a wolf, if that's what this is. But if you're looking for scum, this sure looks like one...


-The bulk of his play has been very basic questions and statements. There's plenty in his ISO - plenty - if you want to check, but just a few examples:

-At other times he's been a bit hesitant, a bit waffley.

-The closest he's come to scumhunting have been...lacklustre, e.g. just saying 'This bad'.


All this is very nitpicky, I freely admit. A lurky townie could do this sort of thing.

But what I particularly don't like is how he looks coming out of last round's vote.

He starts with an awfully waffley reads list:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:57 pm

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:56 pm ok speeds here.

if not th then which person would you also wanna see die? I dont disagree with your th analysis but the wagon coming out of nowhere along with your sudden endorsement of it is sketchy

If not TH...

I'm not entirely against LC dying, but he looks better to me now that he's been at it longer. Dragomir's not a bad option, neither is Epi or TSP. Leetic... I'm not sure why the thread turned on him after he was most towny in the first few pages. I read sloonei's reasons, but I just haven't read closely enough to catch that I guess.

It's very fence-sitting on a few names, and his 'read' on leetic is particularly bad in this regard. Keep in mind, this is only 4ish hours to EoD.

Then, with only 2 hours left:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:00 pm I've heard the case on leetic, even though I don't put much stock in it.

What's the supposed case on Ted? He's one of my stronger townreads.

...And that's the last we hear from speedchuck before EoD. He sits on his LC vote, which he is 'not entirely against'.

Keep in mind leetic was sort of the lead wagon, with LC and Ted as the viable alternatives in this time frame. Speed has basically absolved himself of being blamed for any of them, and is even angling for some post-vote cred where no one else was really defending leetic.


As I say, there's room for error in calling Speed mafia, but nothing I'm reading in his posts comes close to convincing me he's town.

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:51 pm you said you were going to change it

so in the midst of your isos, any good leads?

Did I? You might be right, but I don't really remember saying that.

Not TSP. Haven't done Speedy or TH yet. So no.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:24 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:23 pm

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:15 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:07 pm

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:56 pm you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

yeah 'cause even you don't like it and by not placing a real vote you're not contributing to the vc

it's like you're withholding your voice when it matters

And you are creating a narrative that doesn't exist.

Try this one instead: in the middle of a dead thread where you hadn't posted in a long while, I voted you as I felt someone amongst the non-talkers was a scum. You did not make your appearance until much later. In the time since, I've been online twice: once where I focused on the wagon that I woke up to find on me, and now where I am ISOing a few of the other wagon options before re-evaluating my reads.

Why aren't you harassing TS or Epi for their single-wagon votes?

Or Turnip Head

Yes, or TH.

My ISO of Speedy has been interrupted. It is time for my daily quarantine promenade.

And for the record, I never said I didn't like my vote on you.

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:15 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:07 pm

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:56 pm you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

yeah 'cause even you don't like it and by not placing a real vote you're not contributing to the vc

it's like you're withholding your voice when it matters

And you are creating a narrative that doesn't exist.

Try this one instead: in the middle of a dead thread where you hadn't posted in a long while, I voted you as I felt someone amongst the non-talkers was a scum. You did not make your appearance until much later. In the time since, I've been online twice: once where I focused on the wagon that I woke up to find on me, and now where I am ISOing a few of the other wagon options before re-evaluating my reads.

Why aren't you harassing TS or Epi for their single-wagon votes?

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:56 pm you ever gonna change your vote radishes?

Does it bother you?

Coincidentally, speedchuck is my next ISO.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:44 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:39 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:26 pm Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

That's...completely subjective and therefore useless.

The spread is 2/2/2/2/1/1/1. How did you decide whose vote was good and whose was bad?

The target of the vote.

And yes it's subjective, it's a readlist.

I'm not sure how anyone could sincerely vote for funnygurl after her play the latter half of today. And voting for tedxstr is just wrong.

-Epi is voting Ted, but you have him as a good vote.

-You're not taking into account the context of the vote. E.g. my vote on FG was back when she hadn't posted in ages and the thread had slowed to a crawl. TS' vote on me was for a completely different reason, and completely separate of, the wagon of Mac/Sloonei/Ted that formed on me later. Etc.


Analyse votes if you want to, but this just clogs the thread with lazy busywork that doesn't lead anywhere.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:26 pm Here's a fun one: A readlist based only on people's current votes:

Good votes - MacDougall, Sloonei, Funnygurl, ts account, Epignosis
Not Good Votes - Turnip Head, Master Radishes, Long Con, TSP, Ted

That's...completely subjective and therefore useless.

The spread is 2/2/2/2/1/1/1. How did you decide whose vote was good and whose was bad?

TonyStarkPrime

Starting with TSP, because his wagon of two is the one that carries the most cumulative suspicion in my books.

To jump to my conclusions: I like TSP here. It's just a few little things, admittedly, but:

-His style seems to be to make short, unexplained posts/reads, but when he's questioned (seemingly exclusive by Sloonei) he backs them up well. Whether you agree with him or not, his thought process is made clear. There's no scrambling for justification post-hoc, nor is there an obvious desire to make himself understood to avoid scrutiny in the first place.
-He's not afraid to be sassy. Considering he only pulls this side of him out now and then, it suggests to me he's comfortable, not worried about his agenda.

-He's not afraid to go against the grain on little things. Scum don't mind being contrarian, of course, but usually in macro-level ways - a post like below seems unnecessary for a scum to make.

-He had his vote on leetic, but in the post below admitted leetic was 'putting in real work'. I think what's key here is he didn't go on to try to gain town-cred off leetic's eventual lynch or anything - he commented on something he saw happening, and moved on. He wasn't around EoD (I believe) and his vote remained where it was (on leetic). He wasn't concerned about setting himself up for next round in any of his actions surrounding leetic's lynch.

-He knows he's a possible lynch but isn't worried, and stays focused on his own hunt.

All in all, TSP's play doesn't seem scummy to me. I'm sure I could cherry-pick a couple posts and say 'this could be a wolf...' but you can do that with anyone. He seems to me like a low-posting townie who is is neither forcing his reads nor worried about how he comes across.

I said I'd ISO a couple of them anyway, so I'll do that now. (May end up interrupted and have to finish later.)

Just on a big picture level I have concerns with how this town has been voting (or not voting), across both Days so far.

I'm not saying there's not a scum there somewhere, but we as a town are currently taking the path of least resistance rather than doing the heavy lifting.

The majority of votes are now sitting on three of the four lowest posters in speed, TSP, and TH (the fourth being LC, who has also had several votes previously this round).

Apparently no one else see a problem with this?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:17 am If you are town you're and think I am town, there are better ways of going about resolving this than telling me that I haven't made posts/content that I clearly have.

And as Sloonei said I have articulated town reads. That they are not ones you appreciate is not my concern. My concern is being correct. That my POE is full of people that make too sense/is too agreeable isn't an argument. Show me people I town read who aren't.

I've made like two posts about you in the space of a few minutes. I promise I've left myself enough time to do other things too.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:13 am That's a good talent you have there of quoting a bunch of reasons I have to scumread you and saying that I haven't provided anyway.

Thanks, I've worked hard over the years to polish it up.

Here are some posts you've made about me:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:29 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:54 pm I've not had the time to do to sit down and properly read through and think about things, but a few random musings:

-Just...no way LC isn't a civ, right? If he was scum making a gambit, he wouldn't have left it tied, surely. Someone tell me why he could reasonably be mafia, otherwise I'm locking him in as town.

-The lack of excitement around EoD also confirms that the scum didn't care who got lynched. This, like others I see, makes me want to look at people who sat on their votes. This requires more thinking and re-reading.

-Normally I'd put odds on one of the lynchee's voters being scum, but if they were happy with the wagons (leetic, LC, ted) then it's just as likely they let the town lynch one of their own and fell on one of the other wagons or even off-wagon. I rely heavily on VCA, personally, but don't see the point in wasting my brain cells on it just yet. Maybe when I get bored later in the round.

-Not that it matters much at the moment, but I'm bad at timezones and EoD is an hour earlier than I thought it was. I might occasionally be able to make it, if I bother to make the effort.

I feel like the bolded is very much scumthought. He is justifying why not to exercise his usual civilian mindset based on abstraction. Absolving himself of his duty to be provocative. This entire post in fact has that same tone.

Tone-reading a single post of mine that I even said was one of 'random musings'.

Scum!me would happily VCA the shit out of those wagons in order to end up at a lack of any conclusion.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:33 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:03 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:56 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:08 pm [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Turnip Head is town.

Explain your thought process on why TH is town now? I liked your point about him watching and commenting and sitting on a dead wagon. (It may have only been 1 vote off, but it had no momentum.)

He's not lying about having a town read on leetic, and the response of telling me to shove my vote up my ass looked authentic.

Okay, that's kind of how I felt too.

I've flip-flopped on TH a lot so far (in my head more so than in thread). His overall tone feels really good; his contributions/actions or lack thereof are open to questioning.

I am starting to see a wolf in Radishes. His meandering commentary reads false to me.

That's cool I guess.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:48 am Of the living, Dragomir had the worst impression of Speedchuck, Long Con and Radishes I think.

The problem is that, I also had really bad impressions of those three and if one or more of them are bad I feel (not trying to sound egotistical) like I'm a better target than Dragomir given our comparable positions in the game.

So I'm not sure that Dragomir was killed for being super right about his suspects. I think it's more likely that Dragomir was killed because he was wedging someone named Sloonei.

Drago had no impression of me, actually.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:04 am It's just that there is no world in which Sloonei is the right lynch. He is the town captain and his effort is incredible so far going far beyond anything he mustered in the GOC. And if he is town and we flip him it's almost game throwing. So if not him, then whom? Who makes a decision to shoot Dragomir that isn't Sloonei? Can a team that has Long Con and/or Speedchuck and/or Turnip Head in it choose to shoot him? I really don't think so. Then again perhaps this is all just wifom. But wifom is garbage reasoning. Turnip Head shoots Sloonei I feel. Speedchuck and LC shoot Mac? It might be galaxy brain but I almost want to townclear all three of them because of this. Unless TH and Sloonei are teammates? Actually I think they might be? They were both towncored by me.

I am wondering whether TS Account's game quality here has risen exactly because of his alignment (and contributing partners)? Or perhaps the same can be said for Funnygirl? But Funnygirl's schtick of begging Mikey to find her ... is that in range for any scum to play up to that degree? I ... don't think so.

Master Radishes is the one who can be scum in any combinations though. He has no reason to prefer to shoot me or Sloonei. Maybe that makes him town? He is hung out to dry?

[snip the rest]

You waste 100 words on what other players would do based on WIFOM then conclude I fit every combination. That's not a read on me, I'm just ebing treated as a leftover. (Also, why couldn't I shoot you? You're the only one who expressed a solid suspicion of me D1.)



Maybe I missed some posts? But as far as I can see you've shown no reason to actually SR me beyond I fit into worlds you're building. That's what you did in D1 too. That's clearly your style and that's fine, but I think you're town and we should be working together. So sort through this thought process and figure me out.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:03 am Mac’s got town reads that are easy to identify.

And they've led to an uninspiring PoE, one which includes me for reasons I don't fully get. So he's going to need to re-evaluate.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:58 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:55 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:47 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:43 am Aw man, I'm finally properly awake and fed and ready to play some Mafia and you all leave my wagon.

I would like for you to focus on Turnip Head, Long Con and Speedchuck analysis if you have time.

I've made my position on LC clear - I'm not voting there today. Barring some revelation about game mechanics, I don't see a wolf, any wolf, even you or someone equally bold, self-voting and sitting there whilst the wagons were tied like he did.

I'll do proper ISOs of the other two later.


And Mac, do something for me too, if you have time - find me town, sooner or later. Your PoE is three low content producers and me. It's not a very inspiring PoE and my inclusion in it has never been properly justified beyond a generic 'MR could be scum too' that I've seen. Read me properly and take a firmer stance.

Perhaps you should read the thread before you make statements like this.

Which thread? This one? I have.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:47 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:43 am Aw man, I'm finally properly awake and fed and ready to play some Mafia and you all leave my wagon.

I would like for you to focus on Turnip Head, Long Con and Speedchuck analysis if you have time.

I've made my position on LC clear - I'm not voting there today. Barring some revelation about game mechanics, I don't see a wolf, any wolf, even you or someone equally bold, self-voting and sitting there whilst the wagons were tied like he did.

I'll do proper ISOs of the other two later.


And Mac, do something for me too, if you have time - find me town, sooner or later. Your PoE is three low content producers and me. It's not a very inspiring PoE and my inclusion in it has never been properly justified beyond a generic 'MR could be scum too' that I've seen. Read me properly and take a firmer stance.

I'll be honest, I haven't read FG's walls yet. Are they worth reading? I will, but I'm also going to preemptively voice my suspicion of any leading wagon who suddenly comes out with half a dozen wall posts like that.

Mainly when catching up I was focusing on how votes landed on me. I have to say, I don't mind them, actually. TS' was from much earlier and came about naturally (I basically dared him to). Sloonei seemed like he was unsatisified and was reaching around for a new angle to take. Mac's consistent that I'm still in his PoE and voting me is a very Mac thing at that moment (as opposed to a proper slanker). The only vote that didn't seem backed up was Ted's.

The fact the wagon has also now dissipated makes me think it's mainly townies looking for the clue to crack this case open. It hasn't affected my TRs of any of my voters, to be honest.

Aw man, I'm finally properly awake and fed and ready to play some Mafia and you all leave my wagon.

Lmao I just woke up and find myself the leading wagon.

This is gonna be a fun read.

I'm not very trusting. I've been burned before by towncores I thought I could trust. Tragic tales...

ts account wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:57 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:32 pm I've not had a moment where I think 'no way a scum says/does that'

If this is the case for you, then I have not been playing as well as I should be.

If I add the word 'probably' I can say it a few times.

Having not done any associative reads, I'm going with FG and/or Epi as a starting point.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:32 am Does anyone have an opinion on Mikey they'd like to share? Also Mac's vote for speedchuck feels phoned it but I was townreading him aside from that

TS is a townread for me until proven otherwise. I've not had a moment where I think 'no way a scum says/does that' but their overall play has looked solid.



I agree about Mac's vote. Anyone else and I'd say that was a very wolfy pop-in, but Mac built up enough cred last round in my eyes that I'm willing to wait for him to come back and play properly.

I just don't see how we can go with LC today. Tied votes, especially ones without last minute shuffling, are so often v/v, and LC's self-vote was way too risky to be a scum gambit IMO.

I'm not going to vote LC today. I'll only revisit it if we approach LYLO.

Also, why no JJJ/nutella still? Who's keeping them away?

I think that makes the mafia team Mac/Epi/Funnygurl.

We vote there today, everyone.

Hot take: mafia have not made any of the last ~50 posts (last ~16 hours real time).

Well that took ages to catch up from all the posting whilst I was asleep.

ts account wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:35 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:24 pm I'm upset at the amount of "non MR" reads, I still have no idea what his alignment is so I'd appreciate if someone town / scum cased him or something.

I think they're town, but I felt like their insistence that I should need to be backtracking off sloonei was some bizarre form of TMI.

Was that insistence? I just wanted to dare you to follow through.

I do still read Sloonei a civ, though.

Live shot of Sloonei:

ts account wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:46 pm [VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

Glad you're true to your word.

[VOTE: Funnygurl555] aubergine

ts account wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:41 pm I will instantly town read anyone who brings sloonei to L-1, but scum read the person who brings sloonei to L-2

good luck

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Go on then.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:03 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:56 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:08 pm [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Turnip Head is town.

Explain your thought process on why TH is town now? I liked your point about him watching and commenting and sitting on a dead wagon. (It may have only been 1 vote off, but it had no momentum.)

He's not lying about having a town read on leetic, and the response of telling me to shove my vote up my ass looked authentic.

Okay, that's kind of how I felt too.

I've flip-flopped on TH a lot so far (in my head more so than in thread). His overall tone feels really good; his contributions/actions or lack thereof are open to questioning.

[VOTE: funnygurl555] aubergine

She personified the que sera sera mentality of the thread last round, which right now is not a good look considering I really think we had v/v(/v?) wagons yesterday.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:56 am [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Today is super busy I'll catch up later.

But I maintain that self-votes are bad.

Dafuq is this. I'm not closing the door to LC being bad, but how do you go here first when scum!LC was a coin flip from voting himself out of the game?