DFS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[sprityo]

In the interest of this being a sporting themed game I am going to do daily tallies of post count and award a prize at the end to the player who posts the most (The M Plus 7 Award) and the player who posts the least (The Faraday Medal).

As you can see the namesake of the award has a commanding lead, if not outright insurmountable.



Admirable scum post count there for Alien!

quoth the raven: “nostradumbass”

[MacDougall]

If we focus on just the players who I am highly suspicious of god damn it.

Dharmahelper 124
Turnip Head 76
Lunalee 59
RobotNerd277 35
Marmot 33

A point in favour of Dharmahelper being last to day perhaps.

[Russtifinko]

Oh! I almost forgot. I will miss the vast majority of D2, because I will be at my parents' new cabin, where there is no internet, for the weekend. I should be back in time to vote, at least.

I'm very glad Alien is bad, because if I led his lynch and then peaced for D2 I would be next for sure.

Damn, DH has almost 3x as many posts as me???

[MacDougall]

I meant to say last to die not last to day.

[DharmaHelper]

There are four major things I think we should dial in on in order to determine who next to lynch. I will call them "Quadrants".


Quadrant 1: Who did Alien talk about? Who did they suspect? Who did they trust?

Quadrant 2: Who talked about alien? Who trusted them, who suspected them? When did they suspect alien (pre/post Russ Case?)

Quadrant 3: How did people react to the Russ Case and similar Alien Cases? Was there a save attempt or a bus attempt?

Quadrant 4: Who can we clear based on an alien lynch?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay I am going to rip the thread to shreds now.

[mention]Infected_alien8_[/mention], thanks so much for playing with us, and I definitely hope to see you around here again soon. Don't sweat the result -- you played your ass off, didn't stand for anything, and went down with all of your dignity very much in tact. I think that in most games, you are well ahead of the opposition playing the way you did here. It isn't your fault such a herculean effort was being given by so many people. I salute you sir.

Also, please forgive me as I cause your notifications to explode. You're going to be quoted a few hundred times in the coming hours.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay did you like my chart?

Yes it is beautiful, thank you. I will talk about it a bit later when more important work has been completed (however, the more important work will likely feature data from the chart anyway).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The interactions of alien and Turnip Head:

Things alien said to/about TH:

Spoiler: show

Luna is bad, anyone wanna fight me?

Hi Turnip Head, what makes you say that?

Idk k ask me later

I will. I'm trying to decide if you're town, and attempting to scum-hunt, or if you're mafia and trying to stir up interest on an easy townie lynch. The "Idk k ask me later" answer makes me think it's the latter.

linki MP of course

I get a bad vibe from this post. It feels like a bit of a forced read? Like, it's so easy to find what Turnip did as suspicious but gut-wise I just don't see it as suspicious at all because it's so obviously suspicious, yet Luna is sinking her teeth into it a bit here. This combined with her saying I have a commentary vibe to my posts with little opinions, which I disagree with and makes me wonder if her read there is genuine too, makes me suspicious of her.

alien went after Lunalee a bit for the suspicions she voiced about Turnip Head, suggesting that it's too easy (too obviously suspicious). To me this looks like TMI, in that if TH gets lynched and flips civilian, alien will be able to return to this moment and jab his finger in Lunalee's face.

Spoiler: show

Luna is bad, anyone wanna fight me?

Hi Turnip Head, what makes you say that?

Idk k ask me later

I will. I'm trying to decide if you're town, and attempting to scum-hunt, or if you're mafia and trying to stir up interest on an easy townie lynch. The "Idk k ask me later" answer makes me think it's the latter.

linki MP of course

Why would you consider yourself an "easy" townie lynch?

Why did you ask this by the way?

Softball question.

Spoiler: show

Colin - light Town although I don't remember why I have that in my head
Kyle - I don't remember any of their posts, null read
Marmot - Same as Kyle
Robot - Null, nothing alignment-indicative so far
Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually
Spirit - Same as Kyle and Marmot
Turnip - Same as Robot

alien relegates TH to the null pile, "same as Robot". I do think many mafia members have a tendency to stick at least one teammate in nullsville, so this isn't the best look for TH.


When abyssum presses alien to expand on his read of TH, he clarifies that he doesn't have a town read. He instead just has no reason for a scum read. To me this one is a bit of a nothing burger extending from the prior dialogue he had with Lunalee.

Spoiler: show

I've changed my vote to Turnip Head. I still think sprityo is a good vote but sprityo is a more independent analysis whereas my reasons for voting Turnip Head are strategic. I think it is sound logic for him to be our day 1 lynch.

What about Turnip makes you expect him to flip Mafia, or enough so that you're willing to do this?

This is extracted from a much larger alien post. It's a small moment, but I do get the impression that alien is aligning himself to add to the crap already heaped on MacDougall should TH ever be lynched (and flip civilian).

Spoiler: show

Turnip - don't remember any of their posts really, so no opinion here either, I think I saw them say they're not reading the thread properly yet?

This is from alien's larger reads list, and says nothing.


He continued poking Mac over the matter of TH and Mac's intent to lynch him. This angle is more valuable long-term to alien if TH is a civilian, I think, given the way it'd reflect upon Mac.

Things TH said to/about alien:

TH answered alien's softball question in a softball way. Meh.

Spoiler: show

Turnip Head, I'd really love for you to blowfish on that alien vote.

I can't remember why I voted for him

~~~

Conclusion

There are reasons to view this interaction both ways. I think the points that speak the loudest work in TH's favor, primarily that alien seemed to reveal a little too much about TH in his dealings with both Lunalee and MacDougall. There are some isolated moments which are bothersome though, so I welcome everyone to pipe in on it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The interactions of alien and ColinIsCool:

Things alien said to/about Colin:

Spoiler: show

Let’s lynch MP

No u Colin

Townread MP for now

Colin, this is the post I labeled "stankbutt", which despite your apparent lack of concern is a serious issue. You said just now that you are questioning your tone civilian read on MP in light of alien's input, and I am brought to wonder: what inspired that tone read in the first place?

"No u Colin"?

Was it that?

Was that the tone that won you over?

Was MP a civilian because of that only until alien provided an alternative perspective?

No, that post was a joke. The townread came from me liking his dogpee and viewing him as very similar to what I’d observed in Easter — thus there became an actual townread. But it’s not a firm one and upon review there’s more reason to be concerned than I’d initially noticed.

By dogpee do you mean his excitement?

~~~

I should mention that I won’t be voting for anybody whom is new here on D1, barring tragic slips or Twin Peaks-style dream visions. I know some of you do that too, but given how much it lowers the pool, it’s fair to spell out. What I’m really saying us, let’s fuck MP or Mac up

Sorry, not quite following - why aren't you wanting to vote new people?

A couple of softball questions. I don't get much from these.

Spoiler: show

No, that post was a joke. The townread came from me liking his dogpee and viewing him as very similar to what I’d observed in Easter — thus there became an actual townread. But it’s not a firm one and upon review there’s more reason to be concerned than I’d initially noticed.

k

Do you buy his explanation here by the way?

Asking me a softball question about Colin. Okay.

Spoiler: show

If MP is bad, skimming his massive post suggests to me that his teammate(s) are either Kyle, Luna or RobotNerd.

Tell me more.

He seemed to offer the most uncertainty or least-presciptive-descriptions (?) for those three, so as to maybe not call attention to their scum metas or make their lives harder by boxing them into something.

I like this post, feels like genuine solving, to take it a step further and analyze his meta post in that way, and I can see where'd he'd reach those conclusions. Fakeable as Mafia but I want to give him a couple townie points for this.

Feel mostly good about:

Infected alien
Mac
Jay, but less so

Idk about:

Everybody except for MP, who is on notice.

If MP is bad, skimming his massive post suggests to me that his teammate(s) are either Kyle, Luna or RobotNerd.

Colin why do you do this to me

Another post that pings me - where's your questioning? I feel like as Town you'd ask for reasons for the teammate thing to get inside his head more, but you didn't. I feel like I'm tunnelling you hard but I just don't see you sorting people like I've seen you do in the past, where you questioned everyone about lots of things.

alien is kind in his assessment of Colin's little dig into an MP-as-mafia angle, and poops on MP in the same discussion. I get the impression here that alien is just struggling to cram a read of some sort into the thread however he can, which doesn't necessarily have to reflect any particular way on Colin.

Spoiler: show

Okay, thanks. So basically, you think it seems reasonable that he's confident due to his past games, and therefore, as a Townie, that confidence would translate into confident reads, whereas as Mafia he'd be more cautious?

That's my best guess, yes.

The nice thing about MP is that he is never going to stop posting, even when he shouldn't be posting, and we'll have every opportunity to critically assess whatever he is doing.

Alright, thanks. That perspective does make sense to me, but I can also see worlds where he does this as Mafia, either because he's aware he might need to come off as more confident, or because he's confident enough to pocket people, so I don't want to give too much credit to that theory personally

Also, although I get your perspective of 'confidence in reads could be coming from confidence after winning those games', personally that isn't my impression, it feels more like he's just town-reading people because he's trying to post content but struggling to genuinely find things suspicious/worthy of questioning as Mafia or wanting to pocket them, the 'confidence from champs' thing isn't something I sense personally either

UGH, STOP. Lol. That is not true. Where are you getting this impression? How can clarify anything I've said so far?

Just the ease you have with slapping down people as Town, it's very different to how you were in the champs. In champs you'd enter the thread with questions for basically everyone. Any town-reads you had always felt sort of thin, like you respected their ability to fake it, so you leaned Town but always wanted everyone to constantly be wary. This game you're just sort of throwing out town-reads and it feels like you're buddying with people, like when you said to someone 'we can solve this game together in both our town mindsets' or something along those lines.

I know this is a different forum and you know people well here, and that could be the explanation, it's just not something I feel right now, it just feels off to my gut, especially since colin also agreed and he's played before. I asked people who've played with you before if you are like this usually with people you know, though, and if it turns out you are then fair enough, but right now I'm suspicious of you

This one is a bit more conclusive, I think. In his attempts to explain his continued suspicion to MP, he cited Colin's "agreement" (a word which I think stretches the truth on its own) to support his perspective. It's always nice for a mafioso to be able to share the blame for a mislynch or a smear with a wrong civilian. In that regard it's a decent look for Colin.

Spoiler: show

Colin - light Town although I don't remember why I have that in my head
Kyle - I don't remember any of their posts, null read
Marmot - Same as Kyle
Robot - Null, nothing alignment-indicative so far
Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually
Spirit - Same as Kyle and Marmot
Turnip - Same as Robot

This one's a bit stinky.

Spoiler: show

I think Alien may have been grasping at straws with that slip talk and has now found themselves in the (unenviable) position of defending and debating a suspicion they knew was bunk. On notice.

I'm not defending it, I don't believe in it myself, I said so right from the moment I pointed it out, or right after. I pointed it out to get other opinions on it.

Does picking apart Mac’s rainbow list look like scumhunting, or an attempt to discredit? Others should weigh in.

Unsure where he was going with it, it read more like a defence than anything because of that

I'd like to say here that it looks like alien is trying to explain himself to a person who would really need that explanation (a civilian), but I hesitate. He did the same thing with a number of people, and I recall him being more effortful in those other cases. The posts were longer than one line. So I'm going to decline to give Colin credit here.

Spoiler: show

Slight Town
Colin - I still don't remember why I feel this way so I should go back and check

This is from the larger reads post. It's another meh. I do wonder though if alien would try a bit harder than this to qualify a fake read on one of his teammates.

Spoiler: show

Has anybody made a post about whether Alien is similarly hedgey in other games?

The Russ post is very good. I like it a lot. However, I think Alien's probing of abyssum looks very townish too, but I'm not sure I buy going after Russ for making his post. Hmm hmm hmm

It's not very good, his analysis of my posts with the two colours is biased and misrepresents them, his point about me having many interactions with Jay means nothing without actually looking at the content in those interactions which he didn't do, probably because he doesn't need to because he's not actually trying to sort me, his insistence that I only have one read in M Plus 7 I don't understand how he thinks that at all but he's not the only one so maybe I am just coming across badly, and his insistence of my treatment of the slip being suspicious also makes no sense to me and it feels like he's just trying to push an agenda on something that isn't really there

You can refer to my response to his post to see why I'm saying his two-colour thing is biased and misrepresenting by the way

I see it, but i just don't see the bias. There is a lot of hedging going on in your posts.

Hedging, sure. But his analysis of my posts reduces them to 'here's a point for and here's a point against' when that doesn't apply. For example saying "I can see your perspective but I disagree", in his analysis, is apparently a net worth of 0 opinion and those points neutralize each other, but they don't. Saying I understand their perspective isn't saying I agree, it's saying I understand, so they know I'm getting them but still disagreeing. If anything that's more of a disagreement than 'I don't get what you mean but I disagree' because here at least I'm showing I know exactly what they mean but I still think they're wrong.

These are better for Colin for the reason I mentioned earlier. It looks more like alien is trying to explain himself to someone who doesn't already know that he's bullshitting.

Spoiler: show

Kyle and Colin feel like town vs town

What the actual fuck btw is going on with Kyle and Colin still

Good question. I’d like other people to weigh in because I’m not in a position to assess Kyle anymore on it, we’re just going to talk past each other.

To me it reads as two town misinterpreting each other/fighting each other

Good to know, thanks.

Things Colin said to/about alien not already covered

Spoiler: show

That’s a good point about MP, Infected alien. I don’t recall him being so eager to lock people in during previous games — in fact, in Easter he talked himself into just about everybody being scum at different points before I murdered him. That’s interesting.

I heard the sounds of farts in my head as I read this post.

Spoiler: show

Feel mostly good about:

Infected alien
Mac
Jay, but less so

Idk about:

Everybody except for MP, who is on notice.

If MP is bad, skimming his massive post suggests to me that his teammate(s) are either Kyle, Luna or RobotNerd.

Feel mostly good about:

Infected alien

Why

Mac

Why

Jay, but less so

Why

Alien’s hunting looks to be genuine and I think his stances aren’t contrived even if I don’t agree 1:1 with them. Mac’s D1 posts so far look exactly like his posts in Retro. You also appear to be playing with the same style as in Easter and other games, and I have a lot of experience with town-you — it’s the fact that I haven’t seen/don’t remember scum-you that gives me a great big ol’ pause. Pretty much all just tone reads, meta feelgoods, or appreciating genuine hunting until we get some heads cracked.

He was pretty quick to give alien civilian credit.

Spoiler: show

I think Alien may have been grasping at straws with that slip talk and has now found themselves in the (unenviable) position of defending and debating a suspicion they knew was bunk. On notice.

Goodie two-shoes: Jay, MP, Russ

Unsure, have points in both: Mac, Luna (tone-read), RobotNerd (tone-read)

Null: TH, Kyle, Marmot, Tsaiah and I guess DH. My only experience was in FWWM where DH was much less combative (literally building a coalition on D1 to try to solve/win) but that appears to not be the norm.

Could be bad: abyssum, Alien, Sprit

I give Colin some credit for turning the read around here, though that is tempered given that the thread climate had already worsened in general for alien.

Spoiler: show

Can you take that treatise on Alien and like ... make it a picture book for me or something ... I know you put a lot of work into it and it’s great probably but like ... can someone make it into a 280-character tweet ... I’m going to get two minutes into it and forget what I’m reading in this state

Has anybody made a post about whether Alien is similarly hedgey in other games?

The Russ post is very good. I like it a lot. However, I think Alien's probing of abyssum looks very townish too, but I'm not sure I buy going after Russ for making his post. Hmm hmm hmm

Maybe I just like that post about abyssum because Alien defends me in it, lol

Colin kind of kicked rocks a bit before diving in on the Russ case.

In the end Colin voted for alien, calling it the "best case" available.

~~~

Conclusion

Again I think there are reasons to look both directions here, and again the points that speak the loudest to me are the ones in Colin's favor. Y'all talk to me about where you disagree with my conclusions.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I forgot to mention TH's vote in my review of their interactions. TH moved his vote around quite a lot in the late stages of D1 while I was still here to see it, from Mac to alien to Mac (not necessarily in that order, I can't recall). We can see though that he ended on Mac, which is a curious decision given the turn he was displaying on that read when Mac was shitposting.

[MacDougall]

Colin finished off Alien. You didn't see the timing of his vote. Alien was alive until Colin decided it with his vote and Colin had given himself an out to vote me.

[Tsaiah]

Oh shit, we can post at night? WHEE

That's so weird to me xD

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The interactions of alien and DharmaHelper

Things alien said to/about DH

alien responded thoroughly to my DH ISO and covered a wide range of agreeing with some of it, asking about some of it, and seeming disinterested in some of it. My prevailing take here though is that alien was trying to achieve a couple things here:

1. Look authentic in his handling of my big shiny ISO of whoever, because it provided an opportunity for him to seem involved.
2. Maintain the aura of suspicion around DH that I had constructed without necessarily having to commit himself to it with the strong language that I had used.

In that regard I think it's okay for DH. alien could have worked this into a final vote if he wanted to. It's not better than okay for DH because that noncommittal approach might reflect a desire to distance from a teammate without dooming him.

Spoiler: show

DharmaHelper did you find it suspicious M Plus 7 held off for so long making the rainbow lists?

This question stemmed from my case against DH, so his faux-interest is just being sustained.

Spoiler: show

Slight Mafia
DH - Jay had some good points about him choosing only the weak point in the ISO to respond to and his read of jay being 'I don't know if you're bad' and then suddenly 'you're probably bad' reads as a fake progression to me, but I'm not sure why he'd post the way he's been posting as Mafia because theres 0 attempt to fit in as a Townie at all and I don't think he'd try to rely on a WIFOM like 'why would he do this as Mafia!' to win the game

I've used the color coding again to talk about this bit from the larger reads list. The waffle became the staple of alien's reads, and this is one example. It should be noted that despite the two-sided nature of this blurb, he has decided to stick DH in the "slight mafia" category. He could have justified "slight town" just as easily. I am still getting the impression that he wants DH to remain in the crosshairs.

Spoiler: show

COLIN TOWN
JAY TOWN
LUNA TOWN
M PLUS 7 SCUM
RUSS SCUM
SPRIT NO IDEA NOBODY'S TELLING ME THE CASE ON THEM
MAC TOWN
ROBOT TOWN
DH MAFIA
umm, give me more names

I keep forgetting to talk about this one. alien attempted to add his two cents to the GTH exercise. I have highlighted Colin and DH to cover for each of my last three reviews (he didn't mention TH).

He seemed low on names to stick with the bad tag here and DH was one of them.

~~~

Things DH said to/about alien

Spoiler: show

@DharmaHelper did you find it suspicious M Plus 7 held off for so long making the rainbow lists?

I don't know how long he held off exactly but him posting so frequently you'd think if he wanted to he could have posted that pretty list of names at any point. Not a vote-getter for me but if I was paying attention that'd be something I'd pay attention to.

DH answered alien's poke. Meh.

Spoiler: show

On the one hand my dudes:

InfectedAlien is bad and despite the Mercy Rule, should be lynched.


On the other hand, my dudes:

InfectedAlien is good, and the mafia are foregoing the Mercy Rule to fuck him out of a game.

Which is it?

This is useless. I don't care for the fact that alien could have been spared because of the mercy rule if this mindset had been more prevalent.

DH left his vote on Mac through the deadline. He was present for much of the day and didn't seem to give a shit about much while the alien case peaked and dipped, so I award no points.

~~~

Conclusion

There are some nice things to say about DH here, but they feel less inspired than my previous reviews did (given that there is always a counter-argument easily available). Overall I emerge with a shrug.

[Tsaiah]

Bbiab, presuming i don't inadvertently fall asleep x3

Reading through alien's iso rn, then gonna catch up with the pages i missed (while gradually sorting a rainbow list :3)

Thanks for the interaction round-ups, Jay, that's very helpful!

[MacDougall]

Since I am present to engage perhaps do me the courtesy of doing mine next

[Tangrowth]

You all just fucking rock. I need a break but again I’ll do legacy things.

Thanks for picking up interactive analyses already Jay. Knew I could count on you. I learned from the master. Keep doing your thing. I’ll see what I find agreeable or disagreeable tomorrow if you want commentary.

Night everyone. Let’s keep killing this game.

[Tangrowth]

And yes Mac I am some sort of insane person. Love it. I’ll gladly take that award.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

o right open nights are like...you don't have to post game-relevant content. i'm gonna introduce myself bc of that and bc you all seem like friendly people.

hello i am abyssum and you can call me aby. half the players here make me feel like a mafia newbie and that's funny. i like MP7 and think he's a swell guy. the rest of you seem like swell people as well, which makes sense! i'm on central time and i'm kinda splitting my time between housework, the x-files, and this game

overall a really enjoyable wind-down from wildcards, actually. i'm having a really good time here <3

now i'm gonna get in bed and enjoy the relative illusion of freedom

hello abyssum please play every game you're great

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Since I am present to engage perhaps do me the courtesy of doing mine next

I have time for about one more, so fine.

[Tangrowth]

And I really do want to emphasize how much I love having you all here — [mention]Tsaiah[/mention], [mention]abyssum[/mention], [mention]RobotNerd277[/mention], and [mention]Infected_alien8_[/mention].

Thanks for the post aby. I really couldn’t be happier. Thanks for taking the plunge and playing with us. I really appreciate you all.

Now good night. See you all tomorrow sometime.

[MacDougall]

what if the only sport i like watching is gymnastics?

Town

Fake

The good news is I'm here.

DharmaHelper is scum

Fake

Let’s lynch MP

Colin is town

Fake

You got me. Wrap it up folks.

My random gut reads will turn out correct again I bet.

[Tsaiah]

Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually

I am inclined to disagree on this one. I found Russ's take on your proposed Mac slip to be convoluted, in that the variables he introduced (primarily the relationship/experience you've had or not had with MacDougall) to be of shaky relevance, and I struggled to follow the thread of thought he was putting to paper.

Actually I can see that, I too was kind of confused as to where he was going with that, it felt like he was going to say that if I knew him it'd be worse for me because he said it would be a good 'revenge lynch', but then suddenly it was the opposite and I didn't quite feel like I was riding his thought process with him very well, which could be a sign he was kind of making it up as he went along I guess?

Lol, in hindsight, this post!

This isn't the only time alien changes his mind or suddenly suspects something because Jay squinted at it, either

I'm thinking that makes this look good for Kylemii here:

@abyssum -- ISO
@Infected_alien8_
@JaggedJimmyJay
@RobotNerd277
@Russtifinko

plz also tell me ur history?

I changed my mind on Kyle again. I don’t like this post. Even if he receives thorough responses from each of these people about their “history”, I have my doubts that he’d be likely to apply it to his hunting. It’s a question being asked for the sake of asking a question.

Inclined to agree with this, it's something I thought as well but forgot about it, I'm not sure why knowing everyone's history is that helpful and it seems a bit like busy work

Smells opportunistic to me.

[MacDougall]

I am currently working on the assumption that the scum team is sprityo, Infected_alien8_ and russtifinko.

Why is that exactly? I could see that, but I'm terrible at calling out teams this early... unlike you.

So that leaves me with:

DharmaHelper, Infected_Alien, Marmot, Sprityo, RobotNerd277 as suspects.
ColinIsCool as null.
Everyone else as off my radar for now.

Watch as the entire scum team is in this list.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of alien and MacDougall

Things alien said to/about Mac

*first page of alien posts has 63 Macs*

Mac maybe kinda slipped or something but I don't know because I read him town otherwise. We've talked about this at length throughout the game. I won't mention the extensions of the dialogue as they continue to appear in either of their ISOs. I'll reduce that discussion to this:

A mafioso initially bringing up this "slip", dubious as it was, inherently makes the target look better. Perhaps a mafioso might actually out his teammate in this way if the slip was egregious and awful, to get out in front of the shitstorm. This one wasn't egregious or awful. It wasn't a slip at all. So in that regard the accusation definitely appears manufactured, and I doubt alien manufactures a slip to tag on his teammate in the very first post he makes in a Mafia game on The Syndicate.

It became more conclusive as alien was forced to expand on and answer for the accusation, as he backtracked on it hard. He wanted no part of his own bullshit, probably due in no small part to the severity of the response he got from Mac himself.

Oops.

Alien continued to tinker with and explore this slip shit until it became clear that nobody was buying it.

Spoiler: show

Okay I'm caught up.

I think my top town-reads would be Jay and Tsiah. My main suspicion M Plus 7. Town lean on Mac too but I can't help but feel their post explaining their 'fake' reads was an excuse to stop Jay pushing on them, but it does make sense so I'm sort of like 'well fair enough'. I feel like I need to mull over that post

Mac was the weakest of alien's three town reads in this post that also got him into trouble (mostly for the MP suspicion). I get the impression alien wanted to distance himself as much as he could from the failed "Mac slip" smear attempt, and he elected to turn that Mac read into straight up civilian with the necessary reservations to look like the right progression.

Alien lobs out a couple prods at sprityo about Mac and at Mac about Russ. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Mac is HARD SHADING me in that post. That is not a thing a townie says about another townie. I also hate the way he talks about sprityo, It's SOOO scum. Like ooooh I don't know is he town or is he scum?

It's BULLSHIT.

I am SURE of it.

What do you mean by "That is not a thing a townie says about another townie"?

Also, so do you mean the way he's sitting on the fence with him is scummy?

Sorry, I'm very much struggling to understand your point

alien dug into MP a little bit when MP had his brief seizure against Mac. It tells me little. Perhaps he wanted to set MP up to look dumb later when Mac got mislynched.

Spoiler: show

Tinfoil that M Plus 7 and Mac are partners planning a dispute here because I also don't feel like Mac is genuinely annoyed because he's calling him a nerd and telling him "Go away" and that seems drastically different from when he was angry at the slip shenanigans

Sorry if that's wrong though Mac, I don't want to like, discredit the way you're feeling or anything and I always feel uncomfortable making reads like that, but it's a tinfoil so I'll say it

This one is a bit more interesting. When a confirmed mafioso connects two other players as "possible teammates", I tend to be wary of a one-and-one scenario in which a real teammate is being falsely linked to a non-teammate. In this case it could be either MP or Mac, granting the tinfoil fun present in the former case. It should be noted that alien abandoned this notion soon thereafter.

Spoiler: show

If I had to state what I dislike most about MacDougall, it'd still be that we know for certain that he attempted to emulate his civilian meta when he joined the thread.

That's the thing currently echoing back in my mind as well

Poop.

Spoiler: show

I would say that the most interesting thing that Russ has managed to capture is that Alien has failed to take firm stances on much (citation needed) and instead has consistently just pointed at things and said, this could be this OR that. Which at the scale that Russ has pointed out looks Mafia.

In isolation, this is fine but as an overwhelming majority of his content, it is suspect.

That being said Alien has maintained a consistent scum read on MP which he hasn't wavered from too much. How that fits into a scum Alien profile alongside the other facts here is best answered by another.

I think for the most part I have had a clear opinion one way or the other. I think Russ' post where he gives two colours to things is misleading because it acts as though I'm balancing my arguments when in fact in some of them I'm just acknowledging other possibilities, not that I'm saying those possibilities are just as likely, and in fact I'm pretty sure in most of my posts I haven't even done that and I've given a solid "this is what I think of this", like with Luna, M Plus 7, Jay, some other random posts where I've specifically liked them or disliked them. I've not gone through my ISO to verify that but I'm pretty sure the notion that I'm just counter-argueing with myself is wrong

alien worked very hard to fight off this argument against numerous players, and add Mac to the pile.

Spoiler: show

Mac - mostly seems authentic and I don't see much agenda for the most part, but his 'annoyance' with M Plus 7 didn't translate into his posts at all for me so I wonder if it's fake, also his push on sprit didn't have any solviness to it but I can also see a world where he does that as an annoyed Townie who just wants to lynch the person. Not sure at all what to make of his 'I lied to fit into my meta' thing, it can swing both ways to me, but it keeps echoing in the back of my mind and making me paranoid. My gut says he's Town despite that stuff so I'm putting him here but out of all the Town reads I have this is probably the lowest.

Within alien's reads list, the Mac read was one of the most egregious waffles of all. That can be seen here in the color coding. This is one of my least favorite moments for Mac.

Spoiler: show

Ughhh Mac's mindset makes sense but I disagree since I never like to assume people will inevitably be mislynched as a Townie because they can always bring it back, but I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative because I know people who favour lynches like that as Town 'they're gonna die inevitably anyway so let's kill them for info', but it is definitely scum compatible and the fact he suggested it to Jay after Jay's story makes me think 'hmm' and that in combination with my earlier points makes me inclined to lean that it's a Mafia sided thing rather than a Town thing (how's this for hedge!)

Can someone give me a run down on the sprito case since it looks like it's him vs me vs mac right now?

I have to go away again now, I'll be back in like an hour I think

He waffles some more here.

Alien: I hope you won't take it the wrong way if I offer some constructive criticism, because I genuinely think you did some great things in this game. One adjustment might do you wonders in your next mafia-aligned effort -- set the word "but" on fire. It ruined you here. It's a curse word. Tell it to go away. Put it in the trash can.

There is more content I could discuss, but it's too much at this time of night so I will proceed to Mac's ISO.

~~~

Things Mac said to/about alien

Spoiler: show

That post that said that post of mine was a scumslip was the biggest load of shit and Jay just ate from that load. Jay is either bad or has a scum read on me for poor reasons and desperately wants me to be bad to restore his lost pride when I and my fellow scum streeted him a few games ago.

What was it again?

It was a scumslip because I said that for me to know he is town means I must be Mafia ignored the fact that me as Mafia and he as Mafia would mean I also know he is not town?

I am sorry but either I don't get it AND it's stupid or I do get it and it's the biggest load of shit on God's green Earth. Infected Alien more like Infected Brain.

I actually like that when Mac initially states his grievances with that slip stuff, he directed his shit at me instead of at alien. That reduces the value of the distancing alien would have been doing if they're teammates -- Mac would have needed to reciprocate that distancing by immediately shitting on alien. He picked on me instead.

Mac wrote War and Peace to describe his behaviors and meta in response to alien.

Spoiler: show

I am currently working on the assumption that the scum team is sprityo, Infected_alien8_ and russtifinko.

Mac stuck him in a Day 0 team of three.

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna angle shoot and say that Epi would balance the team to not have two new players on it. I'm gonna say the combinations out of my suspect pool that make the most sense.

DharmaHelper OR Marmot
Sprityo
Robot OR Alien

The "OR" here is kinda suck. The entire angleshoot is bunk anyway.

Spoiler: show

That Russ wall on Alien is hot as fuck.

Word.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall, what is your present stance on alien?

Seems like a nice chap

Not word. Shits pajamas.

Spoiler: show

I still think I want to lynch Alien the most

Alien is a new voice on this site. When new players who are confident come here they always tend to get suspected for being themselves. On top of that he has offered a lot of content. I don't see how Alien is the best day 1 lynch.

Yet another about face but I feel that now, this close to ED, objectively the best person to lynch is Marmot. There is no overwhelming consensus person and Marmot has given us no ability to adequately read him. Plus we'd be doing him a favour. Marmot surviving day after day with no content is one of the worst case scenarios we would find ourselves in and it happens in so many games I've seen marmot play.

DharmaHelper would be the next best candidate imo.

The only reason my vote is on neither is because there has hardly ever been any genuine push to lynch either.

-5 points for Mac resisting an alien lynch with 3 hours remaining before EOD.
+5 points for Mac resisting the lynch of a viable counterwagon to his own destruction

It's a wash.

Spoiler: show

COLINISCOOL
INFECTED_ALIEN8

Good
Good

Against the grain and wrong.

Spoiler: show

I just want to know why I am still at risk of being lynched when the majority of the participants here have me as a strong to moderate town read? Can we just put all our votes on someone that we all agree is bad please?

Talk to me about why Robot over Alien.

Or why sprityo or anyone else really.

What's your POE? I just gave mine.

Alien has defended me when there was no cause to and I think that Russ's case on Alien was flawed, which remains the largest single reason Alien has votes. Alien has sounded pingy which is no surprise for a new player. Alien has been open and forthcoming with lots of information. I think Alien is a mislynch.

One hour to EOD and Mac is still voicing a civilian read on alien. I believe that Mac was the only viable wagon left at this point other than alien, so that's not too terrible. One must temper that though, because we've all seen huge vote swings in short time spans.

Spoiler: show

I don't like that right now under pressure of lynch Alien appears to be circling around me looking for an excuse to put a vote on me.

Changing my vote to Alien

Mac turned it around abruptly here. The rationale is very limited within the full scope of everything Mac has said about alien through Days 0 and 1. For this to be authentic it'd have to be a total gut move, which isn't hard to believe. I don't know where Mac's vote was previously though, because one can also just call this a basic self-preservation vote if the wagons were assembled accordingly. I don't know why Mac wouldn't just call it that.

Player salad strikes again. Most reliable tell I have ever known when applied correctly (it usually isn't). Mac did it right though.

Spoiler: show

Alright, legacy reads as of right now bearing in mind I've missed the past few pages:

Scum: Russ - once I die please go back and read my response to his case against me because it's completely biased and agendary
M Plus 7: my gut is back on him again now after he suspected me trying to catch up and I have no idea how he got to that, and 'player salad', feels like he's just trying to find reasons to suspect me again. Will repeat his dogpees didn't feel genuine to me at all

Probably scum but gut says Town: Mac, reasons same as before, but gut is saying his reactions to my slowly turning against him is Town

Town: Tsiah, Jay, both I love their lines of interrogation and they just seem really Town to me. Aby, her defence of me from Jay felt really genuine trying to figure Jay out and wasn't afraid of splashing herself with what was being thrown my way
I wanna say Luna's town now for her defence of me too

Everyone else has for + againsts that I outlined before, nothing really changed on those

He just described his own behaviour as slowly turning against me and thinks that my response to it is town. This would be a very strange comment from a civ.

Why? If only so I can debunk that?

Like you just admitted that you have been "slowly turning against" me? It's just tantamount to saying that I was right about you changing your opinions just to vote me. Civs don't do that. Voting me sure, but the methodical way you went about it is just weird.

I don't understand what you mean. By slowly turning against you I mean that over the past 24 hours or so, ever since M Plus 7's dogpee, my town read of you has gradually declined, as I've pointed out every time a new point has added to that. I'm not talking about anything you said to me

Your town read has gradually declined the more it looked like your lynch was gaining traction. Meanwhile the vast majority of players opinions of me have shifted the other direction. It's a scum mindset.

Mac reinforced his vote in the end during this conversation. I don't think it looks bad.

~~~

Conclusion

There's more here to question than I expected to find. Good then. Talk about it, Mac. It's still hard to look beyond the slip episode which I think works clearly in Mac's favor.

[MacDougall]

Can you summarise the questionable interactions I was responsible for so I can reply on my phone only having to quote one post please?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can you summarise the questionable interactions I was responsible for so I can reply on my phone only having to quote one post please?

I'll quote them individually in separate posts, and you can respond as you please.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

Spoiler: show

Mac - mostly seems authentic and I don't see much agenda for the most part, but his 'annoyance' with M Plus 7 didn't translate into his posts at all for me so I wonder if it's fake, also his push on sprit didn't have any solviness to it but I can also see a world where he does that as an annoyed Townie who just wants to lynch the person. Not sure at all what to make of his 'I lied to fit into my meta' thing, it can swing both ways to me, but it keeps echoing in the back of my mind and making me paranoid. My gut says he's Town despite that stuff so I'm putting him here but out of all the Town reads I have this is probably the lowest.

Within alien's reads list, the Mac read was one of the most egregious waffles of all. That can be seen here in the color coding. This is one of my least favorite moments for Mac.

Obviously you didn't post the list, but I figured I'd put it here if you want to talk about it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

Spoiler: show

MacDougall, what is your present stance on alien?

Seems like a nice chap

Not word. Shits pajamas.

I still think I want to lynch Alien the most

Alien is a new voice on this site. When new players who are confident come here they always tend to get suspected for being themselves. On top of that he has offered a lot of content. I don't see how Alien is the best day 1 lynch.

Yet another about face but I feel that now, this close to ED, objectively the best person to lynch is Marmot. There is no overwhelming consensus person and Marmot has given us no ability to adequately read him. Plus we'd be doing him a favour. Marmot surviving day after day with no content is one of the worst case scenarios we would find ourselves in and it happens in so many games I've seen marmot play.

DharmaHelper would be the next best candidate imo.

The only reason my vote is on neither is because there has hardly ever been any genuine push to lynch either.

-5 points for Mac resisting an alien lynch with 3 hours remaining before EOD.
+5 points for Mac resisting the lynch of a viable counterwagon to his own destruction

It's a wash.

COLINISCOOL
INFECTED_ALIEN8

Good
Good

Against the grain and wrong.

I just want to know why I am still at risk of being lynched when the majority of the participants here have me as a strong to moderate town read? Can we just put all our votes on someone that we all agree is bad please?

Talk to me about why Robot over Alien.

Or why sprityo or anyone else really.

What's your POE? I just gave mine.

Alien has defended me when there was no cause to and I think that Russ's case on Alien was flawed, which remains the largest single reason Alien has votes. Alien has sounded pingy which is no surprise for a new player. Alien has been open and forthcoming with lots of information. I think Alien is a mislynch.

One hour to EOD and Mac is still voicing a civilian read on alien. I believe that Mac was the only viable wagon left at this point other than alien, so that's not too terrible. One must temper that though, because we've all seen huge vote swings in short time spans.

I don't like that right now under pressure of lynch Alien appears to be circling around me looking for an excuse to put a vote on me.

Changing my vote to Alien

Mac turned it around abruptly here. The rationale is very limited within the full scope of everything Mac has said about alien through Days 0 and 1. For this to be authentic it'd have to be a total gut move, which isn't hard to believe. I don't know where Mac's vote was previously though, because one can also just call this a basic self-preservation vote if the wagons were assembled accordingly. I don't know why Mac wouldn't just call it that.

These were all consecutive anyway, so one post works I guess.

[Tsaiah]

Oh yeah and I thought your response about the Mafia history questions was fair enough too kyle

also, why did you tell me this

Because I tagged you and asked you about it earlier so I'm guessing you'll get to that soon and I didn't want you to feel the need to answer it again, and also to show other people I thought it was fair enough at the same time

Okay, yeah, this is alien rescinding the sus on Kyle for the histories' post, after Kyle gave his reasoning later

What i find especially interesting is the bolded--feels like it was on his mind to let both Kyle and everyone else know he wasn't sussing it after that, nossir

That coupled with Kyle's 'why did you tell me this' (which is a great ??? sounding response xD) + alien's earlier piggybacking off of Jay onto sussing the post to begin with

I just don't see any of these interactions as a whole coming from a scum alien to a scum Kyle

[Tsaiah]

o right open nights are like...you don't have to post game-relevant content. i'm gonna introduce myself bc of that and bc you all seem like friendly people.

hello i am abyssum and you can call me aby. half the players here make me feel like a mafia newbie and that's funny. i like MP7 and think he's a swell guy. the rest of you seem like swell people as well, which makes sense! i'm on central time and i'm kinda splitting my time between housework, the x-files, and this game

overall a really enjoyable wind-down from wildcards, actually. i'm having a really good time here <3

now i'm gonna get in bed and enjoy the relative illusion of freedom

hello abyssum please play every game you're great

btw I agree with this sentiment 100% :3

All games would be enhanced by more aby <3

[ColinIsCool]

I’m joining an NFL fantasy league for the first time ever this year. If you had the no. 1 overall pick in the draft, who would you take?

Todd Gurley

Man, on one hand the Rams have everything they need to succeed, but on the other hand, that locker room is going to be a NIGHTMARE if they underperform even a little. The Philly Dream Team wasn’t so hot the last time they tried it either.

[ColinIsCool]

This may be wrong but IMO the best move going forward is to look at who Alien was and wasn’t fighting or attempting to persuade as D1 wound down. Dude was fighting for his life and had a shot at winning it — I don’t see so much room for going at teammates in there.

I think we should just lynch everyone progressively in this order.

1. Robotnerd
2. Dharmahelper
3. Turnip Head
4. Marmot
5. Lunalee
6. Kyle
7. Colin
8. Tsaiah

If we haven't won the game by then, then the miracle scum that could will go down in history as the greatest performance ever.

You have Luna way too low here, imo.

[Russtifinko]

It became more conclusive as alien was forced to expand on and answer for the accusation, as he backtracked on it hard. He wanted no part of his own bullshit, probably due in no small part to the severity of the response he got from Mac himself.

Wait, now you believe this? You literally called me out on it when I raised it as an early (pre-ISO) point against Alien yesterday.

Hindsight 20/20, I guess.

[Tsaiah]

were you under the impression that my regularly asking people about their past mafia experiences was some kind of scum-hunting tactic? JaggedJimmyJay

this is a real question I want answered btw

@ Infected_alien8_ this is the post i was talking abt with the question aimed at Jay

there's a process that i can't explain super well but it's something i've seen town do a lot, where they get suspected or poked & they use it as an opportunity to try to fish out the thought process of the person doing the suspecting/poking. it's a thing where they grab onto a situation and try to use it to their advantage and try to get a quick read on the person engaging them. it's not impossible for mafia to do, i've just...seen it more out of town and i think it's more advantageous to town

and i don't believe this is a shading attempt because kyle actually townreads Jay pretty confidently

Okay. Personally I don't really get the impression he's going to get much out of the answer to that question in terms of a read, it seems more like either a simple clarification question, or a question that inherently defends themself without getting much of a useful response back.

Okay, yeah. This seems to be alien's type of treatment to Kylemii throughout. And there he is being immediately dismissive of input suggesting Kyle might be town for something, without any real indication of consideration of Aby's thoughts on it--it's a miniature version of what he does repeatedly to everyone who brings up town points for MP.

I think Kylemii's just spewed town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It became more conclusive as alien was forced to expand on and answer for the accusation, as he backtracked on it hard. He wanted no part of his own bullshit, probably due in no small part to the severity of the response he got from Mac himself.

Wait, now you believe this? You literally called me out on it when I raised it as an early (pre-ISO) point against Alien yesterday.

Hindsight 20/20, I guess.

My concern then was the matter of alien having played with Mac before (or not) as an important component of the slip story — not alien backtracking. I didn’t entirely understand what you were saying then and it struck me as a convoluted and possibly manufactured point.

In any event, I don’t have that perspective right now.

[Lunalee]

Interactions of alien and MacDougall

Spoiler: show

Things alien said to/about Mac

*first page of alien posts has 63 Macs*

Mac maybe kinda slipped or something but I don't know because I read him town otherwise. We've talked about this at length throughout the game. I won't mention the extensions of the dialogue as they continue to appear in either of their ISOs. I'll reduce that discussion to this:

A mafioso initially bringing up this "slip", dubious as it was, inherently makes the target look better. Perhaps a mafioso might actually out his teammate in this way if the slip was egregious and awful, to get out in front of the shitstorm. This one wasn't egregious or awful. It wasn't a slip at all. So in that regard the accusation definitely appears manufactured, and I doubt alien manufactures a slip to tag on his teammate in the very first post he makes in a Mafia game on The Syndicate.

It became more conclusive as alien was forced to expand on and answer for the accusation, as he backtracked on it hard. He wanted no part of his own bullshit, probably due in no small part to the severity of the response he got from Mac himself.

Oops.

Alien continued to tinker with and explore this slip shit until it became clear that nobody was buying it.

Spoiler: show

Okay I'm caught up.

I think my top town-reads would be Jay and Tsiah. My main suspicion M Plus 7. Town lean on Mac too but I can't help but feel their post explaining their 'fake' reads was an excuse to stop Jay pushing on them, but it does make sense so I'm sort of like 'well fair enough'. I feel like I need to mull over that post

Mac was the weakest of alien's three town reads in this post that also got him into trouble (mostly for the MP suspicion). I get the impression alien wanted to distance himself as much as he could from the failed "Mac slip" smear attempt, and he elected to turn that Mac read into straight up civilian with the necessary reservations to look like the right progression.

Alien lobs out a couple prods at sprityo about Mac and at Mac about Russ. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Mac is HARD SHADING me in that post. That is not a thing a townie says about another townie. I also hate the way he talks about sprityo, It's SOOO scum. Like ooooh I don't know is he town or is he scum?

It's BULLSHIT.

I am SURE of it.

What do you mean by "That is not a thing a townie says about another townie"?

Also, so do you mean the way he's sitting on the fence with him is scummy?

Sorry, I'm very much struggling to understand your point

alien dug into MP a little bit when MP had his brief seizure against Mac. It tells me little. Perhaps he wanted to set MP up to look dumb later when Mac got mislynched.

Spoiler: show

Tinfoil that M Plus 7 and Mac are partners planning a dispute here because I also don't feel like Mac is genuinely annoyed because he's calling him a nerd and telling him "Go away" and that seems drastically different from when he was angry at the slip shenanigans

Sorry if that's wrong though Mac, I don't want to like, discredit the way you're feeling or anything and I always feel uncomfortable making reads like that, but it's a tinfoil so I'll say it

This one is a bit more interesting. When a confirmed mafioso connects two other players as "possible teammates", I tend to be wary of a one-and-one scenario in which a real teammate is being falsely linked to a non-teammate. In this case it could be either MP or Mac, granting the tinfoil fun present in the former case. It should be noted that alien abandoned this notion soon thereafter.

Spoiler: show

If I had to state what I dislike most about MacDougall, it'd still be that we know for certain that he attempted to emulate his civilian meta when he joined the thread.

That's the thing currently echoing back in my mind as well

Poop.

Spoiler: show

I would say that the most interesting thing that Russ has managed to capture is that Alien has failed to take firm stances on much (citation needed) and instead has consistently just pointed at things and said, this could be this OR that. Which at the scale that Russ has pointed out looks Mafia.

In isolation, this is fine but as an overwhelming majority of his content, it is suspect.

That being said Alien has maintained a consistent scum read on MP which he hasn't wavered from too much. How that fits into a scum Alien profile alongside the other facts here is best answered by another.

I think for the most part I have had a clear opinion one way or the other. I think Russ' post where he gives two colours to things is misleading because it acts as though I'm balancing my arguments when in fact in some of them I'm just acknowledging other possibilities, not that I'm saying those possibilities are just as likely, and in fact I'm pretty sure in most of my posts I haven't even done that and I've given a solid "this is what I think of this", like with Luna, M Plus 7, Jay, some other random posts where I've specifically liked them or disliked them. I've not gone through my ISO to verify that but I'm pretty sure the notion that I'm just counter-argueing with myself is wrong

alien worked very hard to fight off this argument against numerous players, and add Mac to the pile.

Spoiler: show

Mac - mostly seems authentic and I don't see much agenda for the most part, but his 'annoyance' with M Plus 7 didn't translate into his posts at all for me so I wonder if it's fake, also his push on sprit didn't have any solviness to it but I can also see a world where he does that as an annoyed Townie who just wants to lynch the person. Not sure at all what to make of his 'I lied to fit into my meta' thing, it can swing both ways to me, but it keeps echoing in the back of my mind and making me paranoid. My gut says he's Town despite that stuff so I'm putting him here but out of all the Town reads I have this is probably the lowest.

Within alien's reads list, the Mac read was one of the most egregious waffles of all. That can be seen here in the color coding. This is one of my least favorite moments for Mac.

Spoiler: show

Ughhh Mac's mindset makes sense but I disagree since I never like to assume people will inevitably be mislynched as a Townie because they can always bring it back, but I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative because I know people who favour lynches like that as Town 'they're gonna die inevitably anyway so let's kill them for info', but it is definitely scum compatible and the fact he suggested it to Jay after Jay's story makes me think 'hmm' and that in combination with my earlier points makes me inclined to lean that it's a Mafia sided thing rather than a Town thing (how's this for hedge!)

Can someone give me a run down on the sprito case since it looks like it's him vs me vs mac right now?

I have to go away again now, I'll be back in like an hour I think

He waffles some more here.

Alien: I hope you won't take it the wrong way if I offer some constructive criticism, because I genuinely think you did some great things in this game. One adjustment might do you wonders in your next mafia-aligned effort -- set the word "but" on fire. It ruined you here. It's a curse word. Tell it to go away. Put it in the trash can.

There is more content I could discuss, but it's too much at this time of night so I will proceed to Mac's ISO.

~~~

Things Mac said to/about alien

Spoiler: show

That post that said that post of mine was a scumslip was the biggest load of shit and Jay just ate from that load. Jay is either bad or has a scum read on me for poor reasons and desperately wants me to be bad to restore his lost pride when I and my fellow scum streeted him a few games ago.

What was it again?

It was a scumslip because I said that for me to know he is town means I must be Mafia ignored the fact that me as Mafia and he as Mafia would mean I also know he is not town?

I am sorry but either I don't get it AND it's stupid or I do get it and it's the biggest load of shit on God's green Earth. Infected Alien more like Infected Brain.

I actually like that when Mac initially states his grievances with that slip stuff, he directed his shit at me instead of at alien. That reduces the value of the distancing alien would have been doing if they're teammates -- Mac would have needed to reciprocate that distancing by immediately shitting on alien. He picked on me instead.

Mac wrote War and Peace to describe his behaviors and meta in response to alien.

Spoiler: show

I am currently working on the assumption that the scum team is sprityo, Infected_alien8_ and russtifinko.

Mac stuck him in a Day 0 team of three.

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna angle shoot and say that Epi would balance the team to not have two new players on it. I'm gonna say the combinations out of my suspect pool that make the most sense.

DharmaHelper OR Marmot
Sprityo
Robot OR Alien

The "OR" here is kinda suck. The entire angleshoot is bunk anyway.

Spoiler: show

That Russ wall on Alien is hot as fuck.

Word.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall, what is your present stance on alien?

Seems like a nice chap

Not word. Shits pajamas.

Spoiler: show

I still think I want to lynch Alien the most

Alien is a new voice on this site. When new players who are confident come here they always tend to get suspected for being themselves. On top of that he has offered a lot of content. I don't see how Alien is the best day 1 lynch.

Yet another about face but I feel that now, this close to ED, objectively the best person to lynch is Marmot. There is no overwhelming consensus person and Marmot has given us no ability to adequately read him. Plus we'd be doing him a favour. Marmot surviving day after day with no content is one of the worst case scenarios we would find ourselves in and it happens in so many games I've seen marmot play.

DharmaHelper would be the next best candidate imo.

The only reason my vote is on neither is because there has hardly ever been any genuine push to lynch either.

-5 points for Mac resisting an alien lynch with 3 hours remaining before EOD.
+5 points for Mac resisting the lynch of a viable counterwagon to his own destruction

It's a wash.

Spoiler: show

COLINISCOOL
INFECTED_ALIEN8

Good
Good

Against the grain and wrong.

Spoiler: show

I just want to know why I am still at risk of being lynched when the majority of the participants here have me as a strong to moderate town read? Can we just put all our votes on someone that we all agree is bad please?

Talk to me about why Robot over Alien.

Or why sprityo or anyone else really.

What's your POE? I just gave mine.

Alien has defended me when there was no cause to and I think that Russ's case on Alien was flawed, which remains the largest single reason Alien has votes. Alien has sounded pingy which is no surprise for a new player. Alien has been open and forthcoming with lots of information. I think Alien is a mislynch.

One hour to EOD and Mac is still voicing a civilian read on alien. I believe that Mac was the only viable wagon left at this point other than alien, so that's not too terrible. One must temper that though, because we've all seen huge vote swings in short time spans.

Spoiler: show

I don't like that right now under pressure of lynch Alien appears to be circling around me looking for an excuse to put a vote on me.

Changing my vote to Alien

Mac turned it around abruptly here. The rationale is very limited within the full scope of everything Mac has said about alien through Days 0 and 1. For this to be authentic it'd have to be a total gut move, which isn't hard to believe. I don't know where Mac's vote was previously though, because one can also just call this a basic self-preservation vote if the wagons were assembled accordingly. I don't know why Mac wouldn't just call it that.

Player salad strikes again. Most reliable tell I have ever known when applied correctly (it usually isn't). Mac did it right though.

Spoiler: show

Alright, legacy reads as of right now bearing in mind I've missed the past few pages:

Scum: Russ - once I die please go back and read my response to his case against me because it's completely biased and agendary
M Plus 7: my gut is back on him again now after he suspected me trying to catch up and I have no idea how he got to that, and 'player salad', feels like he's just trying to find reasons to suspect me again. Will repeat his dogpees didn't feel genuine to me at all

Probably scum but gut says Town: Mac, reasons same as before, but gut is saying his reactions to my slowly turning against him is Town

Town: Tsiah, Jay, both I love their lines of interrogation and they just seem really Town to me. Aby, her defence of me from Jay felt really genuine trying to figure Jay out and wasn't afraid of splashing herself with what was being thrown my way
I wanna say Luna's town now for her defence of me too

Everyone else has for + againsts that I outlined before, nothing really changed on those

He just described his own behaviour as slowly turning against me and thinks that my response to it is town. This would be a very strange comment from a civ.

Why? If only so I can debunk that?

Like you just admitted that you have been "slowly turning against" me? It's just tantamount to saying that I was right about you changing your opinions just to vote me. Civs don't do that. Voting me sure, but the methodical way you went about it is just weird.

I don't understand what you mean. By slowly turning against you I mean that over the past 24 hours or so, ever since M Plus 7's dogpee, my town read of you has gradually declined, as I've pointed out every time a new point has added to that. I'm not talking about anything you said to me

Your town read has gradually declined the more it looked like your lynch was gaining traction. Meanwhile the vast majority of players opinions of me have shifted the other direction. It's a scum mindset.

Mac reinforced his vote in the end during this conversation. I don't think it looks bad.

~~~

Conclusion

There's more here to question than I expected to find. Good then. Talk about it, Mac. It's still hard to look beyond the slip episode which I think works clearly in Mac's favor.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] See, you still look bad. I knew I smelt stinky yesterday.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of alien and MacDougall

Spoiler: show

Things alien said to/about Mac

*first page of alien posts has 63 Macs*

Mac maybe kinda slipped or something but I don't know because I read him town otherwise. We've talked about this at length throughout the game. I won't mention the extensions of the dialogue as they continue to appear in either of their ISOs. I'll reduce that discussion to this:

A mafioso initially bringing up this "slip", dubious as it was, inherently makes the target look better. Perhaps a mafioso might actually out his teammate in this way if the slip was egregious and awful, to get out in front of the shitstorm. This one wasn't egregious or awful. It wasn't a slip at all. So in that regard the accusation definitely appears manufactured, and I doubt alien manufactures a slip to tag on his teammate in the very first post he makes in a Mafia game on The Syndicate.

It became more conclusive as alien was forced to expand on and answer for the accusation, as he backtracked on it hard. He wanted no part of his own bullshit, probably due in no small part to the severity of the response he got from Mac himself.

Oops.

Alien continued to tinker with and explore this slip shit until it became clear that nobody was buying it.

Spoiler: show

Okay I'm caught up.

I think my top town-reads would be Jay and Tsiah. My main suspicion M Plus 7. Town lean on Mac too but I can't help but feel their post explaining their 'fake' reads was an excuse to stop Jay pushing on them, but it does make sense so I'm sort of like 'well fair enough'. I feel like I need to mull over that post

Mac was the weakest of alien's three town reads in this post that also got him into trouble (mostly for the MP suspicion). I get the impression alien wanted to distance himself as much as he could from the failed "Mac slip" smear attempt, and he elected to turn that Mac read into straight up civilian with the necessary reservations to look like the right progression.

Alien lobs out a couple prods at sprityo about Mac and at Mac about Russ. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Mac is HARD SHADING me in that post. That is not a thing a townie says about another townie. I also hate the way he talks about sprityo, It's SOOO scum. Like ooooh I don't know is he town or is he scum?

It's BULLSHIT.

I am SURE of it.

What do you mean by "That is not a thing a townie says about another townie"?

Also, so do you mean the way he's sitting on the fence with him is scummy?

Sorry, I'm very much struggling to understand your point

alien dug into MP a little bit when MP had his brief seizure against Mac. It tells me little. Perhaps he wanted to set MP up to look dumb later when Mac got mislynched.

Spoiler: show

Tinfoil that M Plus 7 and Mac are partners planning a dispute here because I also don't feel like Mac is genuinely annoyed because he's calling him a nerd and telling him "Go away" and that seems drastically different from when he was angry at the slip shenanigans

Sorry if that's wrong though Mac, I don't want to like, discredit the way you're feeling or anything and I always feel uncomfortable making reads like that, but it's a tinfoil so I'll say it

This one is a bit more interesting. When a confirmed mafioso connects two other players as "possible teammates", I tend to be wary of a one-and-one scenario in which a real teammate is being falsely linked to a non-teammate. In this case it could be either MP or Mac, granting the tinfoil fun present in the former case. It should be noted that alien abandoned this notion soon thereafter.

Spoiler: show

If I had to state what I dislike most about MacDougall, it'd still be that we know for certain that he attempted to emulate his civilian meta when he joined the thread.

That's the thing currently echoing back in my mind as well

Poop.

Spoiler: show

I would say that the most interesting thing that Russ has managed to capture is that Alien has failed to take firm stances on much (citation needed) and instead has consistently just pointed at things and said, this could be this OR that. Which at the scale that Russ has pointed out looks Mafia.

In isolation, this is fine but as an overwhelming majority of his content, it is suspect.

That being said Alien has maintained a consistent scum read on MP which he hasn't wavered from too much. How that fits into a scum Alien profile alongside the other facts here is best answered by another.

I think for the most part I have had a clear opinion one way or the other. I think Russ' post where he gives two colours to things is misleading because it acts as though I'm balancing my arguments when in fact in some of them I'm just acknowledging other possibilities, not that I'm saying those possibilities are just as likely, and in fact I'm pretty sure in most of my posts I haven't even done that and I've given a solid "this is what I think of this", like with Luna, M Plus 7, Jay, some other random posts where I've specifically liked them or disliked them. I've not gone through my ISO to verify that but I'm pretty sure the notion that I'm just counter-argueing with myself is wrong

alien worked very hard to fight off this argument against numerous players, and add Mac to the pile.

Spoiler: show

Mac - mostly seems authentic and I don't see much agenda for the most part, but his 'annoyance' with M Plus 7 didn't translate into his posts at all for me so I wonder if it's fake, also his push on sprit didn't have any solviness to it but I can also see a world where he does that as an annoyed Townie who just wants to lynch the person. Not sure at all what to make of his 'I lied to fit into my meta' thing, it can swing both ways to me, but it keeps echoing in the back of my mind and making me paranoid. My gut says he's Town despite that stuff so I'm putting him here but out of all the Town reads I have this is probably the lowest.

Within alien's reads list, the Mac read was one of the most egregious waffles of all. That can be seen here in the color coding. This is one of my least favorite moments for Mac.

Spoiler: show

Ughhh Mac's mindset makes sense but I disagree since I never like to assume people will inevitably be mislynched as a Townie because they can always bring it back, but I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative because I know people who favour lynches like that as Town 'they're gonna die inevitably anyway so let's kill them for info', but it is definitely scum compatible and the fact he suggested it to Jay after Jay's story makes me think 'hmm' and that in combination with my earlier points makes me inclined to lean that it's a Mafia sided thing rather than a Town thing (how's this for hedge!)

Can someone give me a run down on the sprito case since it looks like it's him vs me vs mac right now?

I have to go away again now, I'll be back in like an hour I think

He waffles some more here.

Alien: I hope you won't take it the wrong way if I offer some constructive criticism, because I genuinely think you did some great things in this game. One adjustment might do you wonders in your next mafia-aligned effort -- set the word "but" on fire. It ruined you here. It's a curse word. Tell it to go away. Put it in the trash can.

There is more content I could discuss, but it's too much at this time of night so I will proceed to Mac's ISO.

~~~

Things Mac said to/about alien

Spoiler: show

That post that said that post of mine was a scumslip was the biggest load of shit and Jay just ate from that load. Jay is either bad or has a scum read on me for poor reasons and desperately wants me to be bad to restore his lost pride when I and my fellow scum streeted him a few games ago.

What was it again?

It was a scumslip because I said that for me to know he is town means I must be Mafia ignored the fact that me as Mafia and he as Mafia would mean I also know he is not town?

I am sorry but either I don't get it AND it's stupid or I do get it and it's the biggest load of shit on God's green Earth. Infected Alien more like Infected Brain.

I actually like that when Mac initially states his grievances with that slip stuff, he directed his shit at me instead of at alien. That reduces the value of the distancing alien would have been doing if they're teammates -- Mac would have needed to reciprocate that distancing by immediately shitting on alien. He picked on me instead.

Mac wrote War and Peace to describe his behaviors and meta in response to alien.

Spoiler: show

I am currently working on the assumption that the scum team is sprityo, Infected_alien8_ and russtifinko.

Mac stuck him in a Day 0 team of three.

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna angle shoot and say that Epi would balance the team to not have two new players on it. I'm gonna say the combinations out of my suspect pool that make the most sense.

DharmaHelper OR Marmot
Sprityo
Robot OR Alien

The "OR" here is kinda suck. The entire angleshoot is bunk anyway.

Spoiler: show

That Russ wall on Alien is hot as fuck.

Word.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall, what is your present stance on alien?

Seems like a nice chap

Not word. Shits pajamas.

Spoiler: show

I still think I want to lynch Alien the most

Alien is a new voice on this site. When new players who are confident come here they always tend to get suspected for being themselves. On top of that he has offered a lot of content. I don't see how Alien is the best day 1 lynch.

Yet another about face but I feel that now, this close to ED, objectively the best person to lynch is Marmot. There is no overwhelming consensus person and Marmot has given us no ability to adequately read him. Plus we'd be doing him a favour. Marmot surviving day after day with no content is one of the worst case scenarios we would find ourselves in and it happens in so many games I've seen marmot play.

DharmaHelper would be the next best candidate imo.

The only reason my vote is on neither is because there has hardly ever been any genuine push to lynch either.

-5 points for Mac resisting an alien lynch with 3 hours remaining before EOD.
+5 points for Mac resisting the lynch of a viable counterwagon to his own destruction

It's a wash.

Spoiler: show

COLINISCOOL
INFECTED_ALIEN8

Good
Good

Against the grain and wrong.

Spoiler: show

I just want to know why I am still at risk of being lynched when the majority of the participants here have me as a strong to moderate town read? Can we just put all our votes on someone that we all agree is bad please?

Talk to me about why Robot over Alien.

Or why sprityo or anyone else really.

What's your POE? I just gave mine.

Alien has defended me when there was no cause to and I think that Russ's case on Alien was flawed, which remains the largest single reason Alien has votes. Alien has sounded pingy which is no surprise for a new player. Alien has been open and forthcoming with lots of information. I think Alien is a mislynch.

One hour to EOD and Mac is still voicing a civilian read on alien. I believe that Mac was the only viable wagon left at this point other than alien, so that's not too terrible. One must temper that though, because we've all seen huge vote swings in short time spans.

Spoiler: show

I don't like that right now under pressure of lynch Alien appears to be circling around me looking for an excuse to put a vote on me.

Changing my vote to Alien

Mac turned it around abruptly here. The rationale is very limited within the full scope of everything Mac has said about alien through Days 0 and 1. For this to be authentic it'd have to be a total gut move, which isn't hard to believe. I don't know where Mac's vote was previously though, because one can also just call this a basic self-preservation vote if the wagons were assembled accordingly. I don't know why Mac wouldn't just call it that.

Player salad strikes again. Most reliable tell I have ever known when applied correctly (it usually isn't). Mac did it right though.

Spoiler: show

He just described his own behaviour as slowly turning against me and thinks that my response to it is town. This would be a very strange comment from a civ.

Why? If only so I can debunk that?

Like you just admitted that you have been "slowly turning against" me? It's just tantamount to saying that I was right about you changing your opinions just to vote me. Civs don't do that. Voting me sure, but the methodical way you went about it is just weird.

I don't understand what you mean. By slowly turning against you I mean that over the past 24 hours or so, ever since M Plus 7's dogpee, my town read of you has gradually declined, as I've pointed out every time a new point has added to that. I'm not talking about anything you said to me

Your town read has gradually declined the more it looked like your lynch was gaining traction. Meanwhile the vast majority of players opinions of me have shifted the other direction. It's a scum mindset.

Mac reinforced his vote in the end during this conversation. I don't think it looks bad.

~~~

Conclusion

There's more here to question than I expected to find. Good then. Talk about it, Mac. It's still hard to look beyond the slip episode which I think works clearly in Mac's favor.

@MacDougall See, you still look bad. I knew I smelt stinky yesterday.

This looks familiar. Someone else recently made a habit of tagging along with any little concerns I expressed.

What do you make of the slip that alien accused Mac of?

[Lunalee]

Interactions of alien and MacDougall

Spoiler: show

Things alien said to/about Mac

*first page of alien posts has 63 Macs*

Mac maybe kinda slipped or something but I don't know because I read him town otherwise. We've talked about this at length throughout the game. I won't mention the extensions of the dialogue as they continue to appear in either of their ISOs. I'll reduce that discussion to this:

A mafioso initially bringing up this "slip", dubious as it was, inherently makes the target look better. Perhaps a mafioso might actually out his teammate in this way if the slip was egregious and awful, to get out in front of the shitstorm. This one wasn't egregious or awful. It wasn't a slip at all. So in that regard the accusation definitely appears manufactured, and I doubt alien manufactures a slip to tag on his teammate in the very first post he makes in a Mafia game on The Syndicate.

It became more conclusive as alien was forced to expand on and answer for the accusation, as he backtracked on it hard. He wanted no part of his own bullshit, probably due in no small part to the severity of the response he got from Mac himself.

Oops.

Alien continued to tinker with and explore this slip shit until it became clear that nobody was buying it.

Spoiler: show

Okay I'm caught up.

I think my top town-reads would be Jay and Tsiah. My main suspicion M Plus 7. Town lean on Mac too but I can't help but feel their post explaining their 'fake' reads was an excuse to stop Jay pushing on them, but it does make sense so I'm sort of like 'well fair enough'. I feel like I need to mull over that post

Mac was the weakest of alien's three town reads in this post that also got him into trouble (mostly for the MP suspicion). I get the impression alien wanted to distance himself as much as he could from the failed "Mac slip" smear attempt, and he elected to turn that Mac read into straight up civilian with the necessary reservations to look like the right progression.

Alien lobs out a couple prods at sprityo about Mac and at Mac about Russ. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Mac is HARD SHADING me in that post. That is not a thing a townie says about another townie. I also hate the way he talks about sprityo, It's SOOO scum. Like ooooh I don't know is he town or is he scum?

It's BULLSHIT.

I am SURE of it.

What do you mean by "That is not a thing a townie says about another townie"?

Also, so do you mean the way he's sitting on the fence with him is scummy?

Sorry, I'm very much struggling to understand your point

alien dug into MP a little bit when MP had his brief seizure against Mac. It tells me little. Perhaps he wanted to set MP up to look dumb later when Mac got mislynched.

Spoiler: show

Tinfoil that M Plus 7 and Mac are partners planning a dispute here because I also don't feel like Mac is genuinely annoyed because he's calling him a nerd and telling him "Go away" and that seems drastically different from when he was angry at the slip shenanigans

Sorry if that's wrong though Mac, I don't want to like, discredit the way you're feeling or anything and I always feel uncomfortable making reads like that, but it's a tinfoil so I'll say it

This one is a bit more interesting. When a confirmed mafioso connects two other players as "possible teammates", I tend to be wary of a one-and-one scenario in which a real teammate is being falsely linked to a non-teammate. In this case it could be either MP or Mac, granting the tinfoil fun present in the former case. It should be noted that alien abandoned this notion soon thereafter.

Spoiler: show

If I had to state what I dislike most about MacDougall, it'd still be that we know for certain that he attempted to emulate his civilian meta when he joined the thread.

That's the thing currently echoing back in my mind as well

Poop.

Spoiler: show

I would say that the most interesting thing that Russ has managed to capture is that Alien has failed to take firm stances on much (citation needed) and instead has consistently just pointed at things and said, this could be this OR that. Which at the scale that Russ has pointed out looks Mafia.

In isolation, this is fine but as an overwhelming majority of his content, it is suspect.

That being said Alien has maintained a consistent scum read on MP which he hasn't wavered from too much. How that fits into a scum Alien profile alongside the other facts here is best answered by another.

I think for the most part I have had a clear opinion one way or the other. I think Russ' post where he gives two colours to things is misleading because it acts as though I'm balancing my arguments when in fact in some of them I'm just acknowledging other possibilities, not that I'm saying those possibilities are just as likely, and in fact I'm pretty sure in most of my posts I haven't even done that and I've given a solid "this is what I think of this", like with Luna, M Plus 7, Jay, some other random posts where I've specifically liked them or disliked them. I've not gone through my ISO to verify that but I'm pretty sure the notion that I'm just counter-argueing with myself is wrong

alien worked very hard to fight off this argument against numerous players, and add Mac to the pile.

Spoiler: show

Mac - mostly seems authentic and I don't see much agenda for the most part, but his 'annoyance' with M Plus 7 didn't translate into his posts at all for me so I wonder if it's fake, also his push on sprit didn't have any solviness to it but I can also see a world where he does that as an annoyed Townie who just wants to lynch the person. Not sure at all what to make of his 'I lied to fit into my meta' thing, it can swing both ways to me, but it keeps echoing in the back of my mind and making me paranoid. My gut says he's Town despite that stuff so I'm putting him here but out of all the Town reads I have this is probably the lowest.

Within alien's reads list, the Mac read was one of the most egregious waffles of all. That can be seen here in the color coding. This is one of my least favorite moments for Mac.

Spoiler: show

Ughhh Mac's mindset makes sense but I disagree since I never like to assume people will inevitably be mislynched as a Townie because they can always bring it back, but I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative because I know people who favour lynches like that as Town 'they're gonna die inevitably anyway so let's kill them for info', but it is definitely scum compatible and the fact he suggested it to Jay after Jay's story makes me think 'hmm' and that in combination with my earlier points makes me inclined to lean that it's a Mafia sided thing rather than a Town thing (how's this for hedge!)

Can someone give me a run down on the sprito case since it looks like it's him vs me vs mac right now?

I have to go away again now, I'll be back in like an hour I think

He waffles some more here.

Alien: I hope you won't take it the wrong way if I offer some constructive criticism, because I genuinely think you did some great things in this game. One adjustment might do you wonders in your next mafia-aligned effort -- set the word "but" on fire. It ruined you here. It's a curse word. Tell it to go away. Put it in the trash can.

There is more content I could discuss, but it's too much at this time of night so I will proceed to Mac's ISO.

~~~

Things Mac said to/about alien

Spoiler: show

That post that said that post of mine was a scumslip was the biggest load of shit and Jay just ate from that load. Jay is either bad or has a scum read on me for poor reasons and desperately wants me to be bad to restore his lost pride when I and my fellow scum streeted him a few games ago.

What was it again?

It was a scumslip because I said that for me to know he is town means I must be Mafia ignored the fact that me as Mafia and he as Mafia would mean I also know he is not town?

I am sorry but either I don't get it AND it's stupid or I do get it and it's the biggest load of shit on God's green Earth. Infected Alien more like Infected Brain.

I actually like that when Mac initially states his grievances with that slip stuff, he directed his shit at me instead of at alien. That reduces the value of the distancing alien would have been doing if they're teammates -- Mac would have needed to reciprocate that distancing by immediately shitting on alien. He picked on me instead.

Mac wrote War and Peace to describe his behaviors and meta in response to alien.

Spoiler: show

I am currently working on the assumption that the scum team is sprityo, Infected_alien8_ and russtifinko.

Mac stuck him in a Day 0 team of three.

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna angle shoot and say that Epi would balance the team to not have two new players on it. I'm gonna say the combinations out of my suspect pool that make the most sense.

DharmaHelper OR Marmot
Sprityo
Robot OR Alien

The "OR" here is kinda suck. The entire angleshoot is bunk anyway.

Spoiler: show

That Russ wall on Alien is hot as fuck.

Word.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall, what is your present stance on alien?

Seems like a nice chap

Not word. Shits pajamas.

Spoiler: show

I still think I want to lynch Alien the most

Alien is a new voice on this site. When new players who are confident come here they always tend to get suspected for being themselves. On top of that he has offered a lot of content. I don't see how Alien is the best day 1 lynch.

Yet another about face but I feel that now, this close to ED, objectively the best person to lynch is Marmot. There is no overwhelming consensus person and Marmot has given us no ability to adequately read him. Plus we'd be doing him a favour. Marmot surviving day after day with no content is one of the worst case scenarios we would find ourselves in and it happens in so many games I've seen marmot play.

DharmaHelper would be the next best candidate imo.

The only reason my vote is on neither is because there has hardly ever been any genuine push to lynch either.

-5 points for Mac resisting an alien lynch with 3 hours remaining before EOD.
+5 points for Mac resisting the lynch of a viable counterwagon to his own destruction

It's a wash.

Spoiler: show

COLINISCOOL
INFECTED_ALIEN8

Good
Good

Against the grain and wrong.

Spoiler: show

I just want to know why I am still at risk of being lynched when the majority of the participants here have me as a strong to moderate town read? Can we just put all our votes on someone that we all agree is bad please?

Talk to me about why Robot over Alien.

Or why sprityo or anyone else really.

What's your POE? I just gave mine.

Alien has defended me when there was no cause to and I think that Russ's case on Alien was flawed, which remains the largest single reason Alien has votes. Alien has sounded pingy which is no surprise for a new player. Alien has been open and forthcoming with lots of information. I think Alien is a mislynch.

One hour to EOD and Mac is still voicing a civilian read on alien. I believe that Mac was the only viable wagon left at this point other than alien, so that's not too terrible. One must temper that though, because we've all seen huge vote swings in short time spans.

Spoiler: show

I don't like that right now under pressure of lynch Alien appears to be circling around me looking for an excuse to put a vote on me.

Changing my vote to Alien

Mac turned it around abruptly here. The rationale is very limited within the full scope of everything Mac has said about alien through Days 0 and 1. For this to be authentic it'd have to be a total gut move, which isn't hard to believe. I don't know where Mac's vote was previously though, because one can also just call this a basic self-preservation vote if the wagons were assembled accordingly. I don't know why Mac wouldn't just call it that.

Player salad strikes again. Most reliable tell I have ever known when applied correctly (it usually isn't). Mac did it right though.

Spoiler: show

Why? If only so I can debunk that?

Like you just admitted that you have been "slowly turning against" me? It's just tantamount to saying that I was right about you changing your opinions just to vote me. Civs don't do that. Voting me sure, but the methodical way you went about it is just weird.

I don't understand what you mean. By slowly turning against you I mean that over the past 24 hours or so, ever since M Plus 7's dogpee, my town read of you has gradually declined, as I've pointed out every time a new point has added to that. I'm not talking about anything you said to me

Your town read has gradually declined the more it looked like your lynch was gaining traction. Meanwhile the vast majority of players opinions of me have shifted the other direction. It's a scum mindset.

Mac reinforced his vote in the end during this conversation. I don't think it looks bad.

~~~

Conclusion

There's more here to question than I expected to find. Good then. Talk about it, Mac. It's still hard to look beyond the slip episode which I think works clearly in Mac's favor.

@MacDougall See, you still look bad. I knew I smelt stinky yesterday.

This looks familiar. Someone else recently made a habit of tagging along with any little concerns I expressed.

What do you make of the slip that alien accused Mac of?

It doesn't look like a slip to me. A slip would be Mac coming out with "Jay is civilian" without being prompted. You told Mac, "You know I'm a civilian," and he responded in the only way he could with, "no I don't because that would mean I'm mafia"
Alien's commentary doesn't make since with what just happened, because Mac is not assuming Jay is town. He made as careful a response as he could.
"Despite the rest of mac's post making me feel he's Town, this could be a slip here - he's assuming Jay is Town and not Mafia, because if he's Town, imagining being Mafia still leads to the possibility of him them being Mafia partners, but he ignores that scenario. "
THAT said, I really don't have a conclusion to draw from this. The whole conversation looks NAI, except that maybe Jay looks more town.

[Tangrowth]

*breathes fire everywhere*

LOCKTOWN SOCKFACE IN THE HOUSE

[Turnip Head]

quick everybody scram

[Tangrowth]

quick everybody scram

YOU'RE FIRST

I EAT TURNIP HEADS FOR BREAKFAST

[Turnip Head]

I'm low carb

[Lunalee]

*breathes fire everywhere*

LOCKTOWN SOCKFACE IN THE HOUSE

dang MP, things just got real with that avatar change.

[Tangrowth]

I'm low carb

Lucky because I'm on a diet.

[Tangrowth]

I won't bother with detailed interactive analyses. For one, I don't have time. For two, I promised myself I'd not do too much work here for my own sanity today. For three, Jay, being the madman analytical robot he is, is already on it, and he's better at them than I am anyway so works out perfectly.

I will however (and have already started this morning) look at Alien's ISO and treatments of him from both sides in my own brief review. Combined with my already... insane knowledge of what's happened this game because I've basically lived inside this game since we've started it, I'll then spit out my updated rainbow list.

I think we pretty much will win this game unless we get too complacent. Let's all stay vigilant and win this quickly.

[Tangrowth]

*breathes fire everywhere*

LOCKTOWN SOCKFACE IN THE HOUSE

dang MP, things just got real with that avatar change.

Isn't it great? I love it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Holy shit socky is on fire.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

(Literally)

(Ba dum tss)

[Marmot]

Yay civilians who lynched a mafia!

Do it again, for Andy Dalton.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

yeah, sorry. this is how i interpret the two:

not contributing=not making any attempts to solve the game, make comments on it, offer opinions, generate content, etc. could be lurking, could be avoiding offering takes on any situations, could be posting only fluffy spammy content.

not contributing to the overall well being of the thread=not trying to boost thread mood/morale, not rallying other players, posting toxic or overly distracting content (not necessarily all of these, but that's the basic idea).

which one are you trying to say is going on with Mac's earlier posts and then changed?

Oh definitely the latter.

Assuming Mafia has a day chat, I want to say that aby and sprit aren't a team. Aby asks him "which of these two options is it, 1 or 2? If it's 1, we'll disagree." Sprit says 2. The part where aby kind of warns him about her disagreeing is something I imagine she'd say in Mafia chat to him rather than out in the open because it could look suspicious (personally I think it's probably not alignment indicative so much as just a style of hunting)

I don't totally understand?

Also I mean I think this is a neat observation but why is this what you are choosing to focus on with less than an hour until EOD?

Whom do you want to lynch Alien? What's your POE?

WHY IS YOUR VOTE STILL ON ME?

I'm catching up, not focusing on it in particular

My vote's still on you because I haven't decide where to change it yet because I'm not caught up

This isn't good enough. What are your reads right now? Surely you have them even if you aren't fully caught up. Whom do you want to lynch right now?

I'm giving you a gun, Alien. Whom do you shoot and why?

Isn't good enough? Why is me catching up not good enough?

My reads right now - luna/mac I'd be happy lynching. You I think I want to get off you for now. Kyle/Colin/Jay/Aby seem Town. Uhhh, no strong feelings about anyone else right now I don't think?

This player salad post might either be incredibly valuable to solving the game or absolute garbage.