Grasslands [Game Thread]

[tutuu]

but i assume they wouldn't be able to see my chat so i'd have to make my selection clear in thread by eod today? aaa

yea the last 3 all go to quick topic i think

[staypositivefriend]

growing up and changing urself is fun. i keep alternating beween scumread sux townread rox but now i have no townreads and wanna do a scummie

i wanna say i lightly scumread u sloonei boyo

(i was about to begin my next line with butter my biscuits but then i googled it and its actually something sexual WTF????? i have used it before in a completely innocent way, cuz that unit from starcraft 1 says it, the marine i think, wtf?)

ANYWAY.

SLOONEI.

do NOT butter my biscuits

but i wanna say i lightly scumread u cuz

can you articulate your sloonei townread that you had off of his first post nutella? (its ok if u cant, i cant articulate mine)

i didnt say i townread him i said spf did

nutella town

why do u tr nutella for that post?

She’s not letting her reads be influenced by the question. Her original statement re:sloonei was ambiguojs and she didn’t let it be construed as something that it wasn’t. That seems like a good strong nutella-town mindset.

i think this read is a stretch. nutella corrected my misunerstanding thats all. ur townreading her cuz ur assuming wolf!nutella would just go along with my misunderstanding? and she would now pretend she townreads sloonei when she originally didnt want to fake that, all cuz i misunderstood her? u wot mate?

tutuu's interactions w/sloonei look a little bit better to me on a second readthrough - i really like this post in particular and i dont think that tutuu/sloonei are likely to fake this level of partner interaction on page 2

[Thunal33]

Well, I did the thing that nobody really wants to do but I have to do - towncase myself.

how did thunal interact with long con?

i like thunal bringing up suspicion/paranoia toward long con on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=675408#p675408 - this was at a point when the suspicion on long con was low, and i don't see why thunal would feel incentivized to throw shade on her partner like that

i get a similar feeling from viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=675604#p675604 - thunal put LC low in her POE even at a point when long con was not a popular chop option by any means. if thunal is mafia with LC then it means that she bussed early and she bussed aggressively

once again, thunal goes out of her way to bring attention to long con slipping under the radar on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=676986#p676986 and viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=676994#p676994. this was at a point when jagged/alison were arguing and when there were a lot of other viable pushes besides long con. thunal is constantly going: "hey, look at long con! he's scummy!" when she would have zero reason to do that as his partner

how did long con interact with thunal?

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=677026#p677026 is notable because it's one of the only times during the game where long con directly answers a question & tries to justify his own actions - gth this reflects nicely on thunal, because it feels like long con is trying to appease her/evade thunal pushing on her suspicions further

lc didn't have any other notable interactions with thunal beyond lightly townreading her on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=677061#p677061

the only interaction that i find slightly suspicious is long con throwing out thunal's name in a weirdly uncomfortable/unnatural way on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=677035#p677035 - i can't figure out why lc chose to throw shade on thunal in that moment, especially since the rest of his attitude toward her was just buddying

conclusion: i was honestly a little suspicious of thunal before i did this analysis, but i'm feeling a lot better about her alignment now. the interactions between thunal/long con consistently point to thunal being town, and i find it unlikely that she went out of her way to hardbus her partner on d1

Just bumping this and bringing it to people's attention - not much explanation needed here.

Sloonei/LC stuff:

@Sloonei what is lc’s alignment?

same question to @Long Con actually - sloonei is [fill in the blank]

Sloonei is mafia. In the early game, as I said, I don't have a strong grasp on why people are Town reading or scum reading others, a lot of the time. As a result, my reads in the early game are often informed by players who excel in the early game. Sloonei is a name I've seen brought up probably more than anyone else as scum, to the point that it was said Carotte being town locks Sloonei as scum.

I would much rather give an answer after I have looked over his posts, which I can do when I'm done with Nutella.

@Sloonei what is lc’s alignment?

same question to @Long Con actually - sloonei is [fill in the blank]

Sloonei is mafia. In the early game, as I said, I don't have a strong grasp on why people are Town reading or scum reading others, a lot of the time. As a result, my reads in the early game are often informed by players who excel in the early game. Sloonei is a name I've seen brought up probably more than anyone else as scum, to the point that it was said Carotte being town locks Sloonei as scum.

I would much rather give an answer after I have looked over his posts, which I can do when I'm done with Nutella.

So this is literally just “Sloonei is mafia because everyone else says so”?

LC's read on Sloonei feels distinctly fake and for quite bad reasons. He either doesn't have actual reasons to push Sloonei since he's town or he's pulling a Sheppard and making an intentionally bad justification for why Sloonei is scum so he doesn't have to push Sloonei to the degree where others could be convinced. Sloonei's response seems lackluster. He doesn't give an additional take on LC's alignment from it which is something I think a townie would do in that scenario. I also feel like Sloonei might be more vocal about why the reasoning is bad if they were W/T.

I also don't like his insistence that I am scum. I don't think he is considering the alternative in the slightest.

I always am. I’ve named you as a suspect several times, but that doesn’t mean my mind is made up on anything at all. I have not seen you do anything that screams town at me.

Who should we send to the grasslands today?

At first glance this seemed like a pretty neutral post, but Sloonei's "who should we send to the grasslands today?" question is ever so slightly scum indicative imo since he could be trying to get an inactive teammate to engage and get themselves out of the PoE. Again projecting onto myself, I know I've done that tactic quite a bit as scum with teammates.

[VOTE: alsion] aubergine
[VOTE: long con] aubergine
[VOTE: martin] aubergine

I don't have a strong preference among these three. I am surprised at my own Martin vote. His response to me in the big wall post of his just now struck me oddly, so it's a bit of a kneejerk/GTH vote. Maybe that's unfair to him. Idk.

If this was a typical game with only one vote, I think I would be going for Alison, but I have been absent for most of the latter part of this phase and will be absent for the remainder of it. I trust you all to pick the right one out of these three.

Thunal is town.

Sorry to be such a dud this phase. I don't like it.

I get the feeling Sloonei would vote like this (meaning, voting for anyone he suspects) regardless of alignment. The analysis I did (which is very limited since I just searched "Long Con" in Sloonei's ISO to find these posts) points slightly to Sloonei being scum. His push on LC seemed pretty weak and LC's push on Sloonei seemed pretty weak.

This is my push on Sloonei from Sloonei/LC interactions. My pushes aren't this well-reasoned and detailed as scum. For anyone who saw me in anni, my Xalt push amounted to "he's outed scum! Why? I don't know." and while I can justify thoughts more than that as scum, I don't have the same depth to my analyses as I do as town.

I've been thinking we should give Nutella the gun today instead of SPF. I think SPF is probably town with the way she thought out all those interaction analyses in a way that makes sense and that both me and Nutella agree with, but Nutella is the clearest person in the game and the most obvious NK. A doc save on her would be really useful.

This is a completely suboptimal play as scum since Nut is clearer than SPF. The only reason I would ever do this as scum would be if I had a special motivation to kill SPF, and obviously that's not the case since SPF is alive.

I was thinking that because Sloonei was the next person in the PoE. As the next person in the PoE scum!Sloonei and his scummates wouldn't be happy with the consensus. However, if Sloonei was town and scum knew they were heading towards a mislim on Carotte that set the groundwork for another mislim on Sloonei they would be quite happy with the consensus.

okay. this actually does make sense and is a good answer. i’m struggling with the same thing. his posts aren’t bad but they’re also not good, and i’m similarly left wondering if that’s AI or just due to him being worn out

your point that people are often suspicious of him for bad reasons is valid but doesn’t really resonate with me personally because when we were town together in SF3 i was never suspicious of him. i think he did get suspicion thrown at him early on that game but i could never make myself see him as anything but a villager and he remained my strongest tr along with spf right up to the end. i felt similarly about him in the finals, though i obviously had the benefit of tmi that game. but even still, none if the accusations levied at him throughout the game ever made any sense to me. he seemed unimpeachably towny to me and i think it’s because he has a process that i do resonate with. in sf3 he remarked that he felt he saw the game through the same lens as me and i felt that too. this game it hasn’t clicked like that yet for me. i still feel something is missing

anyway, thank you for the response. it’s helpful

This part actually does look a little towny from Hally, but this post as a whole made me more suspicious of them overall for reasons I'll get into at the end of this post. Hally's listening to JJJ but I think that might be because they think JJJ would pick up on if Hally wasn't listening since they were in finals together.

i don’t follow this at all. it sounds like you’re more just saying you want to eliminate her for information/because it will help you going forward to know her alignment. but why is she mafia? also your point that she’s gone after a lot of people isn’t really true. she’s really only ever hard pushed thun and sloonei. she clearly is not trying to scum read as many people as possible. and what do you mean, “all she’s doing is making points”? what is bad about that?

this whole post is very confusing. i have no idea what you’re trying to say

Sure, there's a line of questioning here but it's sprinked with "your points don't make sense and are confusing." The questions are more to poke holes in the argument than actual open minded or solving questions. This is suspicious from Hally, more on that later.

That makes some sense - I was struggling to reason what the benefit would be to scum!Alison to keep pushing me this much. She didn't push me anywhere near this much when I was wolf and she was SK. But wanting to keep me and Sloonei out of the towncore would be beneficial if she was scum (especially if Sloonei is town).

how does that make sense? alison has suspects. her suspects are you and sloonei. why is her having two suspects scummy? like, obviously regardless of her alignment she doesn’t want her suspects to be in the town core. that’s the literal definition of a suspect. how is it any different from you or anyone else who has suspects? couldn’t you say that sloonei is trying to keep alison out of the town core by suspecting her? or you are? or jay is? because that makes as much sense to me as what you say here (read: zero)

like, i think you’re confbiasing to fit what you want your reads to be. this argument that martin is making about why alison is scum is not good. your argument about why sloonei is town is not good. they just aren’t valid arguments. that doesn’t mean the reads are wrong necessarily but please try to consider if the arguments themselves actually make any sense

I feel like eliminating in the non universally TRed people is more strategic for today since it gives more info - and I don't think I could successfully case and push for an elim on any of the players I mentioned since my reasons to suspect them are admittedly thin. It's more "could be scum" and for Hally, it's "not out of their scum range." Hally is the most likely out of the three names I have since they have some small things in their play I found suspicious - their complete 180 on Carotte when they got to the grasslands, even though well explained, I could easily see scum motivation for. They're not posting the same way I'm used to seeing from them, meaning that they're not posting as much and they're not as pushy as I've seen them as either alignment. They're blending in which I find unusual for them but it could be because they have less time to play because of their job. Also they didn't pay attention to my deepwolf suspicion on them which I feel scum!Hally is more likely to do than town!Hally. Hally I have some reasons for. Tutuu and Nutella are more "I don't TR them as strongly as the other townread people."

what is the scum motivation for 180ing on carotte? like, actually. what did that get me if im mafia?

also i don’t really feel im blending in. im posting what i can with the time i have. i thought i was quite pushy with carotte and she ended up being town. now it’s harder to find concrete scum reads. also your point about my number of posts is kinda silly. most of my posts are multiquote catch ups so that i can be sure i save posts for real timing. if you were to break up my multiquotes into individual posts, my post count would be higher. would that make me more likely town? like, why does this matter to you?

also the reason why i haven’t addressed your tinfoil on me is because there’s nothing to address. atm it’s just “hally isn’t out of their scum range.” that’s not a substantive suspicion that i can respond to. i did respond in detail to your point about my 180 on carotte though, so it’s wrong to say i’ve ignored your suspicion on me. everything else has just been paranoia that’s not grounded in anything other than your fear of my scum game. it’s the same thing every game and i’m more than used to it by now, so it’s not something i actually care about, sorry

I've read this post and at this point I can only see scum!Hally making it. My tinfoil deepwolf suspicion has turned into very real suspicion. The blue is a clear attempt to discredit me. I've townread Hally in nearly all the games I've played with them. This isn't even close to being true.

And now we come to the main reason I really suspect Hally right now: They're not listening! Finals Hally literally admitted to shutting down Dya's arguments when they would definitely have listened to Dya as town. I've played a lot of games with Hally. We have quite a bit of history and they usually value my opinion a great deal. Even when I was a flipped wolf in Bastard Fiesta town!Hally took my suspects into consideration to try to find the 3p. As town Hally doesn't take one of their top townreads and say "your arguments make no sense" and "I completely disagree" to everything I'm saying. They would care about my input more than this. They're shutting down Martin too. This is a very good reenactment of what Hally did in finals and nothing like what town!Hally's process is. Oh, and this only makes me more confident that Sloonei is town and Alison is scum because my reads aren't convenient to scum!Hally right now.
[/quote]

[VOTE: Hally] aubergine

I don't think I'm ever going to want to change this.

This is simply not how town!Hally acts towards me. Even when they suspected me (correctly) in Bastard Fiesta they still asked me questions that were open minded (not pointed), valued my opinion, and reevaluated their read on me multiple times. They care about my opinion even more when they townread me and certainly wouldn't shut down all my arguments without taking any of them into consideration.

Read my push on Hally. I made them frustrated and I got really frustrated myself because I thought they were shutting me down. I gave some meta links at SoD3 (I think) and you can verify that I wouldn't do anything this evil as scum. I think it's unethical. Additionally, Hally hard townread me nearly the entire game. If I'm scum, what would my push on Hally ever accomplish when I could just shoot them??? And there's absolutely no way I would go to a personal level as scum like that and say "my reads aren't convenient to Hally." In my 2 years of playing mafia I've never been that evil as scum. If not my other points, please believe me on this one.

[staypositivefriend]

i suck at mechanics - can someone break down how the f3 works if the game gets to that point? the 3 living players get sent to grasslands and have 24 hours to submit their vote and they cant consult w/the dead players at all????????????? i hate that!

[staypositivefriend]

yeah thunal's interactions with lc being genuinely good is the thing that makes thunal being maf a hard sell for me

[nutella]

This is a completely suboptimal play as scum since Nut is clearer than SPF. The only reason I would ever do this as scum would be if I had a special motivation to kill SPF, and obviously that's not the case since SPF is alive.

should we be more concerned than we have been that spf is still alive lmao

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

But I think an f3 with nanook/nutella/scumTutu is a loss more often than an f3 with nanook/nutella/scumThun,

why?


also, I saw that in the treehouse you suggested sending spf instead of me next time, but now you're assuming I'll be kept for f3. did you just realize not sending me again would be real dumb or

I don’t think it would be real dumb, I just changed my mind

[tutuu]

since thunal towncased herself i will need to wolf case her

Hi! This is my first game on The Syndicate.

wolf post

I townlean Martin already since he seems to be somewhat comfortable and helpful.

wolf post

i already have one townread. anyone wanna guess who it is?

It's definitely me.

wolf post

I townlean Martin already since he seems to be somewhat comfortable and helpful.

Could you elaborate to me a bit on why my comfort level at the start of a game might be alignment indicative, from your perspective?

I know some people tend to have uncomfortable or negative (negative meaning critical of things, not happy, lots of early half joking pushes) entrances as scum. I often have more nervous feelings at the very start of a game when I roll mafia and I have to fake the level of comfort I have as town at the very start before I get settled into a fake town mindset.

wolf post

tutuu town
spf prob town
martin and nanook light townleans
sloonei, hally, thunal have done nothing ai, all of their posts so far can easily be in their scumranges imo

What have all these town reads done that is outside of their respective scumranges?

I'm wondering the same thing - I don't know tutuu but I've spectated spf's finals game and I know she's a top tier player so she would probably have a good scum game even though I haven't seen it.

wolf post

[nutella]

Read my push on Hally. I made them frustrated and I got really frustrated myself because I thought they were shutting me down. I gave some meta links at SoD3 (I think) and you can verify that I wouldn't do anything this evil as scum. I think it's unethical. Additionally, Hally hard townread me nearly the entire game. If I'm scum, what would my push on Hally ever accomplish when I could just shoot them??? And there's absolutely no way I would go to a personal level as scum like that and say "my reads aren't convenient to Hally." In my 2 years of playing mafia I've never been that evil as scum. If not my other points, please believe me on this one.

damn it this is convincing

[nutella]

what if it's spf tho

[tutuu]

I also think I can town-lean Thunal33 so far.

His explanation didn't match what I think a scum would be possibly inclined to say.

What do you think a scum would be inclined to say?

wolf post

I also think I can town-lean Thunal33 so far.

His explanation didn't match what I think a scum would be possibly inclined to say.

can you expand on this a little bit more? how would you expect scum to react to your question, and how did her answer differ?

I think a scum would point to my aforementioned level of experience in FM games with regards to my comfort level in response. As in, that would be the easy argument to make; a new player who's scum may be more uncomfortable than most players.

Instead, Thunal33 starts talking about themselves in comparison, and that's why they think my comfort level can be AI at the moment.

As to whether that's something they can do as part of one's "scumrange", I don't know and time will tell.

For the moment though, I think that process of thought or reasoning was more likely to be from town than scum.

That makes sense, I don't think I would talk about how I'm often nervous at the start as scum if I'm nervous scum.

wolf post

Who has played this setup before?

I have once before on PerC awhile ago but it didn't go very well lol. Here's the time I played it: https://www.personalitycafe.com/threads ... d.1322681/

wolf post

i like this response from martin, and it's because my approach to scumhunting is very similar to the reasoning he's using to townread thunal (ie: coming in with an assumption of how the scum is likely to act and then measuring that w/the actions of the players)

i actually had a different feeling from thunal's opening read on you, though. i've noticed that scum usually feels pressured to out reads early on to give the impression of gamesolving, and thunal outing a tr on you almost immediately raised my eyebrows a little bit. still, i can believe that you believe it

I tend to think the timing aspect of early reads aren't AI, though I'm sure there are people who would disagree. I will admit though, I didnt think of the "scum out reads earlier than usual" aspect.

I value game discussion/progression, and an early read promotes that very well in most cases. Or at least I think it does.

I would agree that the timing of reads isn't AI overall. It might be for some players specifically but I actually tend to have the opposite trend, as scum I like to fluff and delay posting reads.

wolf post

hally is mafia

hally/sloonei actually always contains at least 1 wolf here

Why? Hally's town and scum meta are pretty darn close to each other, what gives you scum vibes from Hally and Sloonei?

wolf post

[nutella]

hmm tutuu makes good points though lmao

[Thunal33]

alison was right about martin and hard sred thunal, hally was thinking about looking into thunal in the treehouse, and thunal's "reaction" to being put in the grasslands again felt a little off / I've been getting slightly weird vibes from her recent posts


idk i just like.... im sorry to martin's ghost but i just don't *really* feel like it's tutuu or nanook. it seems kinda silly if one of them wins in f3 but... thunal totally could

It’s not me. Think about it from this POV instead: Hally was townreading me harder than anyone else in the game. Why would I have killed my biggest defender instead of SPF? And why would I draw this much extra attention to myself by putting myself in the grasslands for 2 nights?

i dont think this is particularly true

Yes, it's true.

for the record, i find it very unlikely we have wolves as deep as spf/nut/thun. all three should ~always be town here

if there are wolves deeper than sloonei/alison, they’re in tutuu/nook/martin imo

thought dump

martin has some pretty nuanced thoughts so far both about the setup and then later re: his read on thun. his tone is also good imo. i would be pretty impressed if he was able to deliver such nuanced thoughts in such a genuine sounding way as mafia given his limited experience. wanna see if he can keep it up but yea, pretty towny so far

thun is also pretty towny. she’s a good wolf though and can replicate her town meta pretty well. she also has a tone that’s generally kinda hard to read. but her thoughts as town have greater nuance and depth than her scum game, and i’m seeing that here so far. don’t feel like shes forcing stuff. again, not gonna lock this in because it’s still early but so far i feel good about her

nook’s “just let me decide who to kill and ill take care of business” seems like town!nook lol. not actually sure he wouldn’t be brazen enough to push for it as scum but idk, not worried about it rn

and with sloonei, the best way i can put it is like how alison did. when i read his posts about why nut was town, my immediate reaction was “he’s just making this up, this isn’t a real read.” i dont disagree with the conclusion obviously because im like 99% sure nut is a villager rn. but i am extremely concerned that sloonei had that read before i think he “should” have. it makes me think he has tmi that nut is town and that was coloring his perception of her posts so he thought she had towntold before she actually did. but like, idk if sloonei would make a mistake like that as scum? and sloonei in particular is someone i really really really want to find if he’s town because he’s a huge asset if so. but nut, tutuu, alison, spf and i all noticing that he seems off does give me more confidence in the read than i usually might have. idk my mind is definitely not made up though and i want to see what he does going forward and how he responds to the pressure

vote: spf
vote: sloonei

Not really a joke either. I just thought I maybe had a 0.001% chance of catching scum!Hally in a small gambit.

this ^ is a villager

im trying to figure out if i’m just getting like hardcore owned by thun but atm i don’t see why she’s scummy. she just feels like town!thun to me

inb4 alison says this makes me w/w with thun

[tutuu]

Spoiler: show

Groovy?

wait u rly dont know groovy? ur between gen X and millenials right. interesting u never heard of it. it means, like. swag

i wanna townread the L to the C cuz he seems very very preoccupied with expanding his slang vocabulary. i vibe with it (like i can empathize with posting itt whatever u want and not caring if ppl might not townread u when u rand town)

its a bit of a stretch logically thinking but i emotionally speaking it feesl good about making the read so here we go

I actually think this is >rand town since the two dimensional "logically I think this, but I feel this" comes more often from town.

Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.

Do you mean making up the "groovy" thing?

Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.

why do u tr tutuu?

There's the usual energy coming from her that she displays when she's town. She could be mimicking it as scum but I think it's not easy to forge and will fall apart eventually if she's faking it. I felt kinda good about #51, #53, #76, #93. Individually taken they're just mildly townie, but all four of them combined + pretty decent energy means that I'm happy to give her an early game townread.

I think Alison is towny from this solving. I've played with her before and as scum (well, SK) she was really only making reads that fit her agenda and not making the same logical sense that she did as town that I feel in this game.

wolf post

Spoiler: show

town:
spf
tutuu
alison

town lean:
martin
nut
nook
thun maybe

scum:
sloonei

ama

Reminder that my permascum curse is only on MU.

Also, I'm kind of intimidated by this playerlist lol. 4 champs finalists and players like Nutella and Alison who I've played with and know they're good?

wolf post

Spoiler: show

alright we can have our common ground on sloonei for today but if we're wrong there hally's next

i literally think they are a difference check and would be extremely surprised if they're both town here

but i'm being persuaded to feel it on sloonei more atm ig

I'm giving you a townlean for wanting to solve this aggressively? not sure if that's the right word but you're solving hard and I didn't see that in anni (tbf that was under entirely different circumstances). Watch as I fall into the "everyone is town" phase when I wake up tomorrow. I get the feeling it'll happen.

town:
spf
tutuu
alison

town lean:
martin
nut
nook
thun maybe

scum:
sloonei

ama

Reminder that my permascum curse is only on MU.

Also, I'm kind of intimidated by this playerlist lol. 4 champs finalists and players like Nutella and Alison who I've played with and know they're good?

you fit right in thun, don’t you worry

Awww thanks!

wolf post

Spoiler: show

its so classic town!nut to out a read with so much confidence and then immediately waffle on it in like the next post. i don’t think i’ve ever read nut incorrectly plz sheep

Regardless of your alignment I think Nutella is town partly from your post. I don't see you as scum ever doing this to a teammate and I don't think town!you would read Nutella incorrectly here. Will sheep.

Also I'm still null on you mostly from paranoia. I have noticed a few differences in your playstyle when you're scum but even when you're scum it's so easy to get caught up in your 1 million towny posts and talk myself out of any suspicion. This isn't shading just a feeling I have since I haven't been town in a full game with you for awhile.

wolf post

postcaps can suck eggs

ikr, a post cap of 100 mostly makes me post just as much while being nervous I'll reach the post cap. Also is there a way to turn off the "review your post, there are new posts in the thread" thing? That's kind of annoying.

wolf post

Spoiler: show

quick note about the setup before i forget

so like, this setup is unique in that you can vote for multiple people but can’t unvote. but we each shouldn’t actually vote more than one person, and here’s why:

if everyone votes like three people each day, the power of any one vote is diluted and each vote has less accountability attached to it. it also totally screws up wagon analysis. the last time we played this over on perc, i remember one scum just kept voting like all three of the top wagons for example. but what this does is just move everyone up one and it makes it very hard to tell who actually wants who dead. also people wait to vote because they’re locked, and that also screws with wagon analysis. it’s not good

what we should do instead is phantom votes. as in,instead of voting with vote tags and in the poll, just bold whatever “vote” you want to cast itt. you can place your phantom vote at whatever time you would normally want to vote someone. then towards the end of the day when you’re more sure, you can place your official vote with vote tags as well as in the poll

then we add votes wherever necessary to get everyone higher than whoever we want to have as the lowest voted player that day. but those votes are just a mechanical formality and don’t count for wagon analysis

does this make sense to everyone?

example phantom vote

vote sloonei

now we know that if voting were normal mechanics, my vote would currently be on sloonei

Agreed, I remember making my phantom votes pretty and non-accepted colors when I played this setup.

wolf post

Spoiler: show

fwiw id rather nominate nutella/martin/(possibly?) hally to take the shot over nanook. i don't see the point in not nominating the person u tr the most confidently

I agree. Nanook hasn't done a lot (at least as of where I caught up to) so I'd rather see my top TR take the shot. Which might be Nutella or Alison for me.

So we all realvote for the player who we want to kill, and then realvote for ourselves once, except for the person nominated to be saved, right? That way the doc'd person has 0 votes, and the person we voted to die will have the most, so they're the two to be sent to the grasslands?

I'd like this strategy.

I don't trust Alison.

any particular reason why? i actually don't townread her yet either, and the only reason that's concerning to me is that she almost immediately became obvious town to me in radiohead

Her initial reads bug me a bit. "Martin already pocketed me" / "Sloonei is making things up" -- there's a hint of "bravado", for lack of a better term, in the tone of those reads that I don't think fits the situation.

I actually think that confidence is more likely to come from town in general. Usually when I see someone making reads more confidently than everyone else is making reads at the time they're town.

wolf post

[nutella]

hally dont click this

Spoiler: show

they tr'd you in anni too

[tutuu]

Spoiler: show

Groovy?

wait u rly dont know groovy? ur between gen X and millenials right. interesting u never heard of it. it means, like. swag

i wanna townread the L to the C cuz he seems very very preoccupied with expanding his slang vocabulary. i vibe with it (like i can empathize with posting itt whatever u want and not caring if ppl might not townread u when u rand town)

its a bit of a stretch logically thinking but i emotionally speaking it feesl good about making the read so here we go

I actually think this is >rand town since the two dimensional "logically I think this, but I feel this" comes more often from town.

Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.

Do you mean making up the "groovy" thing?

Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.

why do u tr tutuu?

There's the usual energy coming from her that she displays when she's town. She could be mimicking it as scum but I think it's not easy to forge and will fall apart eventually if she's faking it. I felt kinda good about #51, #53, #76, #93. Individually taken they're just mildly townie, but all four of them combined + pretty decent energy means that I'm happy to give her an early game townread.

I think Alison is towny from this solving. I've played with her before and as scum (well, SK) she was really only making reads that fit her agenda and not making the same logical sense that she did as town that I feel in this game.

wolf post

Spoiler: show

town:
spf
tutuu
alison

town lean:
martin
nut
nook
thun maybe

scum:
sloonei

ama

Reminder that my permascum curse is only on MU.

Also, I'm kind of intimidated by this playerlist lol. 4 champs finalists and players like Nutella and Alison who I've played with and know they're good?

wolf post

Spoiler: show

alright we can have our common ground on sloonei for today but if we're wrong there hally's next

i literally think they are a difference check and would be extremely surprised if they're both town here

but i'm being persuaded to feel it on sloonei more atm ig

I'm giving you a townlean for wanting to solve this aggressively? not sure if that's the right word but you're solving hard and I didn't see that in anni (tbf that was under entirely different circumstances). Watch as I fall into the "everyone is town" phase when I wake up tomorrow. I get the feeling it'll happen.

town:
spf
tutuu
alison

town lean:
martin
nut
nook
thun maybe

scum:
sloonei

ama

Reminder that my permascum curse is only on MU.

Also, I'm kind of intimidated by this playerlist lol. 4 champs finalists and players like Nutella and Alison who I've played with and know they're good?

you fit right in thun, don’t you worry

Awww thanks!

wolf post

Spoiler: show

its so classic town!nut to out a read with so much confidence and then immediately waffle on it in like the next post. i don’t think i’ve ever read nut incorrectly plz sheep

Regardless of your alignment I think Nutella is town partly from your post. I don't see you as scum ever doing this to a teammate and I don't think town!you would read Nutella incorrectly here. Will sheep.

Also I'm still null on you mostly from paranoia. I have noticed a few differences in your playstyle when you're scum but even when you're scum it's so easy to get caught up in your 1 million towny posts and talk myself out of any suspicion. This isn't shading just a feeling I have since I haven't been town in a full game with you for awhile.

wolf post

postcaps can suck eggs

ikr, a post cap of 100 mostly makes me post just as much while being nervous I'll reach the post cap. Also is there a way to turn off the "review your post, there are new posts in the thread" thing? That's kind of annoying.

wolf post

Spoiler: show

quick note about the setup before i forget

so like, this setup is unique in that you can vote for multiple people but can’t unvote. but we each shouldn’t actually vote more than one person, and here’s why:

if everyone votes like three people each day, the power of any one vote is diluted and each vote has less accountability attached to it. it also totally screws up wagon analysis. the last time we played this over on perc, i remember one scum just kept voting like all three of the top wagons for example. but what this does is just move everyone up one and it makes it very hard to tell who actually wants who dead. also people wait to vote because they’re locked, and that also screws with wagon analysis. it’s not good

what we should do instead is phantom votes. as in,instead of voting with vote tags and in the poll, just bold whatever “vote” you want to cast itt. you can place your phantom vote at whatever time you would normally want to vote someone. then towards the end of the day when you’re more sure, you can place your official vote with vote tags as well as in the poll

then we add votes wherever necessary to get everyone higher than whoever we want to have as the lowest voted player that day. but those votes are just a mechanical formality and don’t count for wagon analysis

does this make sense to everyone?

example phantom vote

vote sloonei

now we know that if voting were normal mechanics, my vote would currently be on sloonei

Agreed, I remember making my phantom votes pretty and non-accepted colors when I played this setup.

wolf post

Spoiler: show

fwiw id rather nominate nutella/martin/(possibly?) hally to take the shot over nanook. i don't see the point in not nominating the person u tr the most confidently

I agree. Nanook hasn't done a lot (at least as of where I caught up to) so I'd rather see my top TR take the shot. Which might be Nutella or Alison for me.

So we all realvote for the player who we want to kill, and then realvote for ourselves once, except for the person nominated to be saved, right? That way the doc'd person has 0 votes, and the person we voted to die will have the most, so they're the two to be sent to the grasslands?

I'd like this strategy.

I don't trust Alison.

any particular reason why? i actually don't townread her yet either, and the only reason that's concerning to me is that she almost immediately became obvious town to me in radiohead

Her initial reads bug me a bit. "Martin already pocketed me" / "Sloonei is making things up" -- there's a hint of "bravado", for lack of a better term, in the tone of those reads that I don't think fits the situation.

I actually think that confidence is more likely to come from town in general. Usually when I see someone making reads more confidently than everyone else is making reads at the time they're town.

wolf post

[tutuu]

oops

[staypositivefriend]

what if it's spf tho

it is

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Optimal approach for f3 is probably everyone submits the name below them alphabetically (bottom name submits top name) and treehouse give gun to person they want to.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

So if it’s nanook/nutella/tutu, I submit nutella, Nutella submits tutu, tutu submits nanook. Treehouse gives gun accordingly.

[tutuu]

from my pov nanook is lock clear town

haters line up

i think its thunal or spf

[staypositivefriend]

from my pov nanook is lock clear town

haters line up

i think its thunal or spf

why is nanook lock town?

[staypositivefriend]

nanook is a uniquely difficult player for me to read in this game because he's so coy about his thought process/frame of mind a lot of the time - it's difficult to know how he's reaching the conclusions that he does even if the conclusions seem to "make sense". the main things that push me into thinking he has a solid chance of being town are the fact that his interactions w/sloonei are "unclean" in a way that partner interactions usually arent - and his sassiness when i talked with him yesterday felt more like a town that wanted me off his back than a maf that was worried about me catching him. i think there's more evidence to suggest that nanook is town than not, but im not sure where that leaves my reads

[tutuu]

from my pov nanook is lock clear town

haters line up

i think its thunal or spf

why is nanook lock town?

because he had no reason to kill alison n3

its thunal, or its u and u missed the deadline to submit nk and it was randed to alison (i think)

(i mean thats not the only reason why i think u could be scum)

u could be scum cuz dunno why u town

[staypositivefriend]

from my pov nanook is lock clear town

haters line up

i think its thunal or spf

why is nanook lock town?

because he had no reason to kill alison n3

its thunal, or its u and u missed the deadline to submit nk and it was randed to alison (i think)

(i mean thats not the only reason why i think u could be scum)

u could be scum cuz dunno why u town

wouldnt sloonei have been alive when alison was killed too? my memory is bad

[tutuu]

u right hm

[Thunal33]

I’m going to be gone for a little bit.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

The jay kill is the one that clears me not the alison one

[tutuu]

i suck at mechanics - can someone break down how the f3 works if the game gets to that point? the 3 living players get sent to grasslands and have 24 hours to submit their vote and they cant consult w/the dead players at all????????????? i hate that!

btw whats up with the sarcasm there? i thought its a bit weird, why u felt that way?

[staypositivefriend]

a problem i have right now is that i find thunal's defense of herself to be genuinely convincing - but i dont know where that leaves my reads if i consider her to be town

[staypositivefriend]

i suck at mechanics - can someone break down how the f3 works if the game gets to that point? the 3 living players get sent to grasslands and have 24 hours to submit their vote and they cant consult w/the dead players at all????????????? i hate that!

btw whats up with the sarcasm there? i thought its a bit weird, why u felt that way?

that wasnt sarcastic - i was under the impression that if the game went to 3-way, the dead town would be able to look at the thread and make their decision in real-time, so i was annoyed to find out that they wouldnt be able to see the grasslands

[tutuu]

i suck at mechanics - can someone break down how the f3 works if the game gets to that point? the 3 living players get sent to grasslands and have 24 hours to submit their vote and they cant consult w/the dead players at all????????????? i hate that!

btw whats up with the sarcasm there? i thought its a bit weird, why u felt that way?

that wasnt sarcastic - i was under the impression that if the game went to 3-way, the dead town would be able to look at the thread and make their decision in real-time, so i was annoyed to find out that they wouldnt be able to see the grasslands

wait really?

oh okay lol

thats interesting, how some ppl use a tone to convey seriousness when other ppl use the exact same tone when they wanna convey very clear and hard sarcasm

[tutuu]

Read my push on Hally. I made them frustrated and I got really frustrated myself because I thought they were shutting me down. I gave some meta links at SoD3 (I think) and you can verify that I wouldn't do anything this evil as scum. I think it's unethical. Additionally, Hally hard townread me nearly the entire game. If I'm scum, what would my push on Hally ever accomplish when I could just shoot them??? And there's absolutely no way I would go to a personal level as scum like that and say "my reads aren't convenient to Hally." In my 2 years of playing mafia I've never been that evil as scum. If not my other points, please believe me on this one.

damn it this is convincing

hm i calmed down and i just read this

damn it

i mean...

hm

[tutuu]

like

arent all the perc people hardcore on the emotion stuff

wasnt dizzy all like

"omg i hate myself, i only voted this guy out of pure ego, its a negative trait about myself im trying to fix, im so sorry guy" etc ect and dude flipped wolf

[tutuu]

dude wtf

what if its spf

or nanook

OR NUTELLA

OR TUTUU

[tutuu]

I DO NOT LIKE MAFIA ITS A TERRIBLE GAME AND IM BANNING it.

[tutuu]

i support nanook's plan to vote alphabetically

this way ITS NOT OUR FAULT

ITS THE OTHER PEOPLE'S FAULT

hell yeah

[tutuu]

i just want u guys to know if i misyeet any of u its cuz u played bad

and if u misyeet me u also played bad

[tutuu]

this is why i should always be night killed like n1 or n2

if i survive to end game town DOES NOT WIN

this is BAD GUYS. REAL BAD.

[tutuu]

(rescind the lock townread on nanook)

funny how "lock" reads come and go, dont they?

just like avatars

honestly just like men too

u just play with them for a little bit, u get bored, u ditch them and move on

[tutuu]

thunal i SWEAR TO GOD LADY i am GOING to DRAG my ASS to PERC CAFE right NOW and im gonna READ some of ur WOLF GAMES to SEE if u LIED about FAKING fruSTRATion

[tutuu]

now i just remembered someone said perc admins went crazy or whatever and ruined the site and moved the mafia site to a different site

i dont remember the new name

and i dont wish to check

mission failed. we'll get them next time

[tutuu]

i actually cant remember the last time i won a mafia game where i was town and alive in f5 or f3

this might have actually never happened in all years ive been playing mafia. which was like. 6?

[tutuu]

i just panic too much and fuck up

[tutuu]

[mention]Alison[/mention] pls give me some of ur calm-ness i could rly use it rn

place ur finger on my avatar of this post

i will also place mine

[tutuu]

w-w-watch where ur placing ur finger pervert!!!

[tutuu]

47/100 with this one wtf what happened

[tutuu]

i wonder if im bipolar

[tutuu]

i will have jay jay jay examine me after this game. i wonder how will he do it. maybe show me those ink pics of the butterflies or whatever from fallout new vegas. and then tell me: "result = ur a dumbass"

[Thunal33]

My meta (I thought it would be good to link it, especially for Alison so she can realize that this is my town meta):
Town games:
https://mafiacafe.boards.net/thread/105 ... ch-special (the only light game on the list)
https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/wild-w ... -win/83518 (this was also my first game on a site)
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... vs-Zombies

Scum games:
https://mafiacafe.boards.net/thread/65/ ... 9-town-win
https://mafiacafe.boards.net/thread/88/ ... eague-town

Town then scum game (I was recruited into the scum team n1):
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ard-Fiesta

You don't have to hunt Tutuu.