The Syndicate

And Mac, I was very conflicted on whether your cop claim was real haha. You were a blast to play with, and I was stoked I could read you properly and help get MP to back off you! #TeamMac forever

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:10 am Russ play more. Your presence calms my spirit.

Thanks, dude! I had a lot of fun and I missed all you guys

This game was a great reminder about how awesome this community is and also about what a time suck Mafia is. I’ll defini be back for the occasional future game, but probably only occasionally. And I do wanna host a LoTR mafia series!

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:56 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:54 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:42 am Players did accrue 0.02 points per post.

Too bad nobody drafted MP.

Seriously? Alright then.

I was joking about the post count.

Nobody took you or Marmot because you were too expensive and the general fear was that you would be killed early.

No killed took place period. None were ever sent in.

Russ didn't protect anyone N1, but he protected JJJ N2.

Mac checked TH but nobody N2.

More missing PMs than I expected here.

Oh shit, you're right. I tried to protect MP N1, but I guess my PM didn't go through.

Epi, not sure if it matters for scoring, but you didn't put my save of JJJ in my point totals. MVP baybeeeee!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:18 am Alright everyone. I hope we realize what is at stake here.

This has become an even more historic achievement than I was talking about in the wake of the Robot lynch. I was referring to a lesser sort of perfection, we'll call it a "no hitter", in which the civilians never lynch wrongly (but still lose at least someone to a night kill). That has never occurred on The Syndicate in a non-burglary.

But now we have an opportunity to do something truly incredible, something that I suspect hasn't happened before on the vast majority of Mafia-dedicated websites out there.

Civilian win in a full-length game without losing a player.

That's a true perfect game. I have wondered about this before, imagined what it'd be like and how difficult it would be. I never expected to actually be in this position though, more than likely one proper lynch away from achieving the holy grail of civilian Mafia. If we make this happen, nobody will ever be able to take it away. Ever. It will be the greatest glory I have ever been a part of in this damned game we all like to play.

So let's treat this Day 3 with the proper reverence, and more importantly the proper urgency. It's LyLo.

I hate to burst your bubble, JJJ, but it actually has happened once before. Minimalist Mafia. A heist, I believe(?). Monthlong cycles. We lynched a no-poster D1 and they turned out to be the sole baddie. I had forgotten about it until now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:19 am LINKI

Okay.

@sprityo, apart from my previous post there, I really do appreciate that. This would have been a lot of work and heartache for all of us, and I respect what you've done. I hope everyone does. Believe it or not, I have conceded as a mafioso before myself. Sometimes it's just proper.

I'm actually kinda bummed [mention]sprityo[/mention] threw in the towel there! I mean I get it; I was thinking through if I had been a baddie this game and it would've been absolutely fucking terrible. That said, it would've been interesting to see if we got you today or mislynched DH first. You held out really well given the circumstances.

Hot damn!! Good shit errbody.

So now we actually have a chance to pitch a perfect game!! This is nuts.

*farts*
.
.
.
*looks around sheepishly*
*shrugs*

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:27 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:18 pm DH, I know you're trolling in this game and that's cool, but to me these posts look bad for you.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:13 pm Oh fuck lads and ladies we killed the new fish.

Why do.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:32 pm Fun to note that the first two lynches look like they're going to be against new players. I mean, you did lynch a mafia D1 so I guess all bets are off but damn lol.

The second quote stuck with me overnight.

I understand the sentiment, because I felt kinda bad about it myself. But now that we've been proven right on both lynches, it seems possible to me that these were designed to defend teammates who were new to the site without getting your hands dirty.

If I wanted to defend them I'd have done more than troll-posting.

WIFOM, try again.

DH, I know you're trolling in this game and that's cool, but to me these posts look bad for you.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:13 pm Oh fuck lads and ladies we killed the new fish.

Why do.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:32 pm Fun to note that the first two lynches look like they're going to be against new players. I mean, you did lynch a mafia D1 so I guess all bets are off but damn lol.

The second quote stuck with me overnight.

I understand the sentiment, because I felt kinda bad about it myself. But now that we've been proven right on both lynches, it seems possible to me that these were designed to defend teammates who were new to the site without getting your hands dirty.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:04 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:50 pm If I were the ultimate surpreme ruler of the world and I could lynch people in order until this game was solved, here's how I'd do it right now. Subject to change, obviously:

DH
sprit
Luna
TH
Marmot
Colin
Kylemii
Tsaiah
JJJ
Mac
abyssum
M Plus 7

Kylemii and below on the list are people I have basically no interest in lynching anytime soon, barring major changes in reads. For people above that line, the thing that's most going to influence where you are on my list is how hard I feel like you're 1) hunting baddies and 2) communicating your reads with the thread.

Convince me otherwise!

Oh! General question: when I used to play, role claiming was a MAJOR no-no, especially in Epi games. I've seen multiple people modkilled for it before. Is that still a thing?

If I were the ultimate surpreme ruler of the world and I could lynch people in order until this game was solved, here's how I'd do it right now. Subject to change, obviously:

DH
sprit
Luna
TH
Marmot
Colin
Kylemii
Tsaiah
JJJ
Mac
abyssum
M Plus 7

Kylemii and below on the list are people I have basically no interest in lynching anytime soon, barring major changes in reads. For people above that line, the thing that's most going to influence where you are on my list is how hard I feel like you're 1) hunting baddies and 2) communicating your reads with the thread.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:48 pm Are "infer" and "deduce" the same thing?

Inferring involves making an educated guess as to someone's intent. Deduction involves applying general principles to reach a specific conclusion by eliminating possibilities that do not adhere to those principles (essentially, a POE). So not the same.

[mention]Lunalee[/mention] , I was just starting to feel better about you, but...what?

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:55 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:44 pm I appreciate your responses, Lunalee. If you've had any time yet to look things over for yourself, do you have any suspicions emerging?

I still think Colin is scum, but I'll get back on the ball with reads and stuff on Day 3. I don't feel a need to do too much right now.

Here you seem to be 100% discounting the possibility that you could die tonight. Admittedly, to me you don't look like you'd be a high-priority NK target, but no onw's immune. What gives you such confidence you'll be around tomorrow?

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:40 pm -Jay and Colin turn the suspicion away from Alien onto Aby. I'm increasing not feeling the best about Jay, despite his super helpful analysis posts

You seem to be saying both JJJ and Colin are bad. We don't have confirmation yet, but speculation in the thread is that there should be 3 baddies in this game based on balance. Do you disagree? If so, why, and what do you think the setup is?

You're weirding me out with the direction of these posts, girl. I was just starting to solidify a town read of you.

[mention]sprityo[/mention] see above. I should've Mentioned you there.

So sprit, Jay has made a case against you. Cool, whatever.

Tbh, at this point in the game, I don't care about Jay's case. For the purposes of my vote, you could 100% ignore it for now and I wouldn't bat an eye. WHat I do wanna know is, who do you think was teamed with Alien and Robot. I figure we need all hands on deck, and so far tongiht responding to the case has taken you off the baddie-hunting ball.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:23 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:02 am We got this, team. Let's not get complacent. I believe in us.

Let’s go for a flawless game!

Any reaction to J’s accusations above?

LOL abyssum. My guilt is mostly assuaged.

Also, 100% everything JJJ just said.

Haha, thanks everyone.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:02 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:00 pm Things I need clarified:

What "TMI" and "CFD" are.
What a "godfather" is.

I guess that's all. I feel like this whole thread is just waiting for today to be over.

too much information (when a mafioso is more revealing in their content than they intend about other players)

coagulated fire drill (not really, but the true meaning is shitty. I hate this one. Call it a hot potato instead -- late movement of votes from one wagon to another)

A godfather is usually a mafia member who is shown to be a civilian if checked by a cop.

Yeah, I didn't realize the fire drill one was racist until a couple months ago actually. Felt very bad/dumb for not knowing before. That's probably the racist term I thought least about before, and it's still a struggle to not reflexively say it if a situation where it the concept applies comes up.


LinkI: YAAAASSSSSS! I was starting to be worried.

I know this is (still) premature, but I feel like we have this game in the bag.

Things I need clarified:

What "TMI" and "CFD" are.
What a "godfather" is.

I guess that's all. I feel like this whole thread is just waiting for today to be over.

abyssum wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:00 pm i could stake my reputation on Mac and Luna being town in this game because i don't have any reputation to speak of. BAM

I was unclear from your previous posts - is this based on Luna's tone, her interactions with Alien, or a combination of the 2? SHe's been slightly pingy to me at times (although less so than, for example, Robot, DH, or sprit).

Also, fair point on the baddie thing - you're right, #3 lynch train isn't really "caught". And it is still a possible thing to have happen, regardless.

Linki Kyle, Mac, and Colin. Well....it's only bad if we're wrong about it....right?

Points about sprit are interestng. I always shy away form thinking civvies have caught 2 baddies on D1; I've seen it suggested a lot but never seen it really happen (unless of course 1 baddie tries SUPER hard to save the other and basically outs themselves). Sprit was 3rd possible lynch train behind Mac yesterday, so I'm leery.

However, that is my only justification for putting sprit slightly higher on my tier list than others, and I'm fully aware it's a weak one as it's non-thread-based.

Linki: Mac, it seems you and DH are playing different games. But I'm glad we're a friendly bunch!

Dammit! I get back fomr camping and my whole post is lost. Beautiful.
[VOTE: Robot] aubergine

The gist of it was this:

I agree with the case. Robot was my 2nd highest suspect after Alien, and that was before the flip and before JJJ's sleuthing on the interactions.

Some things I'm worried about:
1) No palpable resistance to the lynch, unlike yesterday.
2) TH's weird, non-case-related defense. Reads non-baddie-baddie to me because it was too late to save her, so it's just....weird.
3) 4 or so of us have descended into complete memery, which makes the game harder to read for me.

So again, I'm convinced but I have misgivings about the way this has gone. Will be looking at everyone, not just consensus "top suspects", going into N2.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 am It became more conclusive as alien was forced to expand on and answer for the accusation, as he backtracked on it hard. He wanted no part of his own bullshit, probably due in no small part to the severity of the response he got from Mac himself.

Wait, now you believe this? You literally called me out on it when I raised it as an early (pre-ISO) point against Alien yesterday.

Hindsight 20/20, I guess.

Oh! I almost forgot. I will miss the vast majority of D2, because I will be at my parents' new cabin, where there is no internet, for the weekend. I should be back in time to vote, at least.

I'm very glad Alien is bad, because if I led his lynch and then peaced for D2 I would be next for sure.

Damn, DH has almost 3x as many posts as me???

Tsaiah wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:53 pm
What bothers me the most, in this game so far, is that i keep feeling like your Input slot is connected directly to your Garbage bin, bypassing your Consideration drawer entirely, if that awful analogy makes any sense.

By the way, this was probably my favorite post of today. I might put it in my signature. Love the analogy!

haha for real though, good work everyone! So excited, I'm beaming!!

Linki: ....haha to be fair, MP, I think you're case convinced more ppl than mine. Just want my due! MP AND RUSS FOREVAH!
Double linki: hahaha ty Tsaiah.

Tsaiah wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:53 pm What bothers me the most, in this game so far, is that i keep feeling like your Input slot is connected directly to your Garbage bin, bypassing your Consideration drawer entirely, if that awful analogy makes any sense.

Yeah, again, don't mind me over here.....definitely didn't ISO him and vote him first or anything.....

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:19 pm Much love Alien. You've left a great impression on everyone and please play more.

This.



And WOOOOOOOO!!!!!

MP, how are you locktown? It was my wagon! First abyssum takes my captaincy of Team Mac, now you steal my bandwagon cred too? Did I even do anything today??

Like, as fast as possible, just down the player list and "TOWN, SCUM, TOWN, TOWN, SCUM" etc.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:03 pm I am going to feel like an ass if this is an ML, but god dammit, you know what, we really have exhausted the fuck out of these Day 0 and Day 1 cycles. Thanks so much for the incredible effort, everyone. It really is appreciated. You all are an absolute pleasure.

As far as Day 1 lynches go, I'm feeling pretty good right now. Here's hoping.

I agree here - Alien, separating from the game for just a sec, I feel REALLY bad on a personal level for getting you lynched here on D1 since you're new. It goes against my norms. I hope we can play lots more together in the future.

I do think you're bad though, and there's enough resistance that I feel decently confident about it.

If you're town, a HUGE help would be if you could leave GTH reads on everyone before the Day ends. (actually regardless of alignment it would help)

RUSSTI'S SOLICITED, APPROPRIATELY-TIMED RAINBOW LIST (ALMOST THE END OF DAY 1):
(within each tier, people are listed as civviest to least civ)
(for reference, Lunalee is a VERY slight positive read) (she'll switch negative if she doesn't move her vote and/or say something by EOD, though)

I don't like that Mac is still Top 3, or really even that there's a one-vote separation in the top 3 tbh. [mention]Lunalee[/mention], remind me why you're voting Mac? Who else do you suspect currently?

Regarding Mac's Robot push above, for me that's where GTH falls apart. Yeah, GTH I'd put Alien and Robot as both scum, but my read on Alien is much stronger. Thus my vote stays.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:44 pm @Russtifinko Abyssum is already on Team Mac. Come join us. Apparently somehow I am a consensus town read among a list of players including Jay, MP and sprityo my loudest detractors. How great.

That's what I'm saying! She can't "already" be there before me, because I was there first. Hmph.

@[mention]M Plus 7[/mention], I can do my own, post-GTH GTH, if that is useful. Didn't know if I missed the boat.

abyssum - TOWN
Colin - TOWN
DH - TOWN
Alien - SCUM
JJ -TOWN
Kyle - TOWN
Luna - TOWN
Mac - TOWN
Marmot - TOWN
MP - TOWN
Robot - SCUM
me - TOWN, DUH
sprityo - TOWN
Tsaiah - TOWN
TH - SCUM

Wait, how many scum are there? I've been working under the impression of 3, but I just realized it doens't say anywhere in Epi's intro post.

abyssum wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:02 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:57 pm I am not Mafia for being hair brained Jay. Hair brained logic and whacky strategies are not part of my mafia meta.

Mac has written 'whacky' rather than 'wacky' in this sentence. as you all know, 'whack' is often used colloquially to mean to murder or kill (i.e., "He got whacked by the mob"). this is yet another example of a slip in Mac's posting, and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is mafia.

pack it up boys, this one's a done deal

hahahaha abyssum you need to use sarcastic orange for this kinda stuff, you're gonna get Mac killed!

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:07 pm @Infected_alien8_
Yo Alien

Why is your vote still on me

Alien is nothing if not consistent.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:08 pm

abyssum wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:07 pm so i've thought for a while and i've decided that i'm doubling down on my Mac townread, potentially strengthening it, and don't want this lynch to go through. i'll figure out what this means for everyone else's alignments later but my points for townreading him stand and a lot of the reasoning for him being scum is tenuous at best IMO. i'm not following the line of logic in "Mac knows [Jay's] civilian meta so let's be wary and lynch him" because it means essentially nothing for his rand either

You're now on Team Mac

Team Mac:

MacDougall (Captain)
abyssum

Who else wants to be on Team Mac?

I demand my credit for this right now! I'm the FOUNDER of Team Mac, and you left me off the roster?? For shame!

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:47 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:40 pm Also yeah I mean Marmot can be inactive relatively but when he wants to be he is fucking clutch as fuck and I will hear no arguments to the contrary

I'm the Andy Dalton of mafia. Absolutely not clutch, and I rely on other players playing their brains out to look good.

This makes me so sad because the truth hurts.

abyssum wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:55 pm A SCUMREAD ON TSAIAH

Jay talk to me later

I'm more shocked by this than the Marmot's hot takes, tbh. Is your suspicion coasting-related, or something more?

Man, I gotta say - the GTH's are very helpful from a reading/catch-up perspective as well.

I liked Marmot's entrance to the thread; I kinda thought he was gonna slink through D1 all quiet-like. It's a good look; keep it up dude!

I haven't heard much from Luna, Robot, Tsaiah, or TH today. The weirdest one of those imo is Robot since she is actually in some danger of being lynched - I guess she's busy/away? Not sure about Luna and Tsaiah, and I've seen posts from TH today but nothing very substantial.

Linki: I appreciate sprit's complimenting of my presentation style. If your vote stays on Alien I'll be happy, but if "Russ made a good case" is the only reason I'll be because bandwagon . You voting Alien almost has to be partially some self-preservation, as well, right? If you had to give a % to self-preservation as a factor in your vote, where would you land approximately?

Linki2: Yay someone follows/agrees with my slip logic!

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:51 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:51 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:46 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:45 pm This post in which mac goes through individually his options he put forth for an information lynch, he backs up how that will benefit the town as a whole and I thought that looked good on him

Do you think we should follow the advice he laid out in that post?

I think its a valid option, and technically appeals to me through mac’s eyes.

However, it can, and could very well be an easy way to get pressure off himself. In where mac thought he could get an easy lynch out of me, he was met with resistance and now has to backtrack to another lynch. Only this time he adds understandable reasons it’s to lynch XYZ unlike previously.

Hey look he is doing that thing that Russ said made Alien bad!!!

Hah! Responding to Jay, waffling....got 'im!

Marmot is back!!!

JJJ, I looked back at X-Men (which was hilarious, btw, because the sock had all been reused for the Friends Mafia game. It looks like Mac wasn't in that one, so idk what I was on about.

I could swear I've gone after Mac HARD for being him across mutliple day periods, though.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:39 pm Can we also talk about Robot? Please? What does everyone think of her?

Yes, let's! I liked Robot at first, and haven't as much lately.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:14 pm So we are lynching Alien day 1.

Welcome new guy. Time 2 die.

Sooo, I actually do feel super bad about this. But Alien, Robot, and you seem to be the top 3 suspect. If we're not going to lynch one of those 3, whom do you propose?

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] lemme find the X-Men exchange, since it seems relevant.
[mention]sprityo[/mention] Did you ever go back and read my iso?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:24 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:20 pm No. But we’ve played probably no more than 4 games together previously, and we’ve fought about it in half or more of them. I think it was X-Men where I literally went after him for days on end over it. Turns out we were both good iirc

r u shore

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:30 pm I looked into this Mac/Russ dynamic that MP mentioned. They've played in a game together three times:

Talking Heads - both mafia
Star Wars - Russ Jawa indy / Mac civilian
Romance of the Three Kingdoms - Russ civilian / Mac Nanman mafia

This wouldn't seem to point to whatever parallel MP was thinking of.

X-Men was sock accounts. So obviously you didn't find us in that by text searching our names...

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:17 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:15 pm I had to skip 4 pages to get here. I’ll go back for those, but in the meantime: can someone tell me why we’re lynching Mac for doing Mac things??

Mac literally always proposes information lunches and lynching low posters. I’ve fought with him about it in multiple games. I hate the ideas, but I’ve learned with time that it’s how he wants to play and he’s not changing it. I’d be absolutely flabbergasted if it were alignment indicative in any way.

I honestly think the whole Mac thing traces back to Alien’s BS “scumslip” thing. I think the recent flips by others are taking advantage of the miasma that created and are factually based on just who Mac is. It reeks.

I care 0% about that slip thing and indeed I had forgotten about it in every context apart from my concerns about alien -- not about Mac. Can you remember a specific instance when you have fought with Mac about this sort of thing?

No. But we’ve played probably no more than 4 games together previously, and we’ve fought about it in half or more of them. I think it was X-Men where I literally went after him for days on end over it. Turns out we were both good iirc

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:17 pm You know what

Upon reflection

I also wonder if Mac like knows Russ v Alien is town v town

Go back and look at what he said to Russ yesterday

This suddenly makes a lot of sense

What do you mean? Posting from phone. What did he say that indicates this.

also did no one notice DH’s slip??

#freeMac #justMacthings

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:06 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:33 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:18 am that makes zero sense. your scum tendencies are not my scum tendencies.

But that's why I said those tendencies are some you may be using.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:18 amand questions aren't just a tailored strategy for dampening my civ meta to be achievable as mafia, they're actually a useful tool for understanding shit.

That's true, but their intent is also easily faked. I don't think you would disagree with that.

i also don't care about your townie points, it's not important to be town-read until like day 3.

There aren't lynches on days 1 and 2?

I'm not sure what you want from me Kyle. You've said yourself that your meta is to be deliberately hard-to-read, so if you don't want to be looked upon as a suspect ... don't do that I guess?

I forgot I didn't respond to this post earlier. the issue I take with the points you're making here is that everything you say comes to the conclusion that you don't know how to read me and yet your conclusion is "we should lynch kyle." you didn't provide an actual reason to suspect me anywhere, at any point, other than the questions thing, which you admit knowing is semi-enforced NAI.

this is also the "townier than thou" post. the post where you went "what? not prioritizing being townread? that's unheard of. i would never do that cus im just such a town. your meta doesn't match the norm so i shouldn't be faulted for wanting to lynch you for it"

Again ... not true.

I ask a question of Kyle.
Kyle responds and I’m not satisfied with the answer. I continue to follow this lead. I feel how I felt watching you be scum in U-Pick, as you continue to distort my arguments, my position, and the words I’m using. Throw in some no u for good measure and accuse me of the same.

Maybe I’m crazy because nobody else reads this the same way ... but I don’t think so.

This is exactly how I feel about Alien haha. Only in my case, some people are kinda sorta listening.

Also @[mention]M Plus 7[/mention] to my post above.

I had to skip 4 pages to get here. I’ll go back for those, but in the meantime: can someone tell me why we’re lynching Mac for doing Mac things??

Mac literally always proposes information lunches and lynching low posters. I’ve fought with him about it in multiple games. I hate the ideas, but I’ve learned with time that it’s how he wants to play and he’s not changing it. I’d be absolutely flabbergasted if it were alignment indicative in any way.

I honestly think the whole Mac thing traces back to Alien’s BS “scumslip” thing. I think the recent flips by others are taking advantage of the miasma that created and are factually based on just who Mac is. It reeks.

Appreciate the list. I see I’m now mafia because I’m after you - cool.

I actually agree with you on Marmot, though; aby said 8 and I was like “Wait, not 0??” And I actually feel like you have some tangible reads you can be held accountable for now, instead of just brunch and accusations-that-aren’t-accusations.

Oh yay, Alien did a rainbow list literally while I was asking for it! It’s like Christmas! Thanks!

at Alien quoting my post. Also, did that run beat MP for most posts in a row?

Mac, JJJ, thanks for the feedback. I don’t think Alien’s defense just now holds any water. I think there’s enough there that I’m leaving my vote on Alien.

Alien, one point you didn’t address directly in my ISO is that you seem to have the impression that you’re giving clear reads, but to me any reads you’re doing are 100% lost in wafflespeak except your one-note MP suspicion. Can you do a rainbow list or something similar so that there’s a tangible record of where you stand? I’m not comfortable letting you slide in just saying “Russti’s mean and unfair - I’ve had reads all along!”, because I just read your entire post history and didn’t see them.

I liked Kylemii’s point a few pages back noting that Tonot just goes along with whatever others say about him. Robot has rocketed up my list as a result. However, that gives me some slight apprehension since my top 2 suspects are new people. And I normally refuse to lynch newbies on Day 1.

Oh my god I'm so tired after that case. I'm signing off for the night. Vote Alien (or tell me why I'm a moron).

Now, I need the rest of the thread's help. Sanity check: am I insane for thinking there's no good reason to point out a scumslip, waffle on it, and then say you never thought it was a scumslip in the first place? Is Alien just asking lots of questions because he's super friendly, has just it it off with JJJ organically, and waffling on reads because he's new and doesn't know anyone? Does he truly suspect MP is mafia?

I think the answers to all these are a resounding NO. It makes sense to me that he's been caught trying to push a lynch with no accountability, that he's being really nice to JJJ (and polite to the thread in general) in order to curry favor, that he's waffling so as not to be pinned to a bad suspicion, and that he threw out a (first post!) garbage case on MP because that was the one person he knows and he knew roughly what reaction he'd get. However, if my case is weak and/or I'm tunneling, I want to hear about it and have it out now.

Linki: Thanks, MP. And yeah, I didn't include it in my case except to quote JJJ, but he's right - having you as his sole suspicion is nuts imo.

LOL DH good memories. And MP, Goldfuss FTW!!!

infected_alien_8 ISO by Russti

The Good:

I went into this read thinking Alien was backing off from every suspicion. That's actually not entirely the case. He's stuck to his MP guns all game so far, and he expressed a definite (positive) opinion about Colin pretty early on (even if he did later forget why he felt good about Colin).

So those things are worth some brownie points.

The Bad:

Side note: I realized reading back that Jay had pointed both 1) the waffliness and 2) the buddying of Jay before. Kudos to JJJ on those. I already wrote most of this post, though, and I tink the way I highlight it might help some people. So it stays. My point 3 is still new, though.

1. MP will remember that in high school English class, Mr. Goldfuss once told us about an analysis that was done on Hitler's speeches. A univeristy group had apparently analyzed a large number of them line by line and found that nearly every one had a net "opinion content" (I'm paraphrasing here) of 0. What they meant was, every time Hitler expressed an opinion in a speech, he offset it by saying the opposite thing with about the same intensity somewhere else in the speech. This made him very appealing, because everyone in a crowd could find something to agree with him about. (Mr. Goldfuss was weird, and recommended we try to follow this model for some speeches.) Mr. Goldfuss also lied a lot, and it's possible he made up that story entirely, but the core of it applies really well to some posts by Alien. Let's play a game: I'll post an Alien quote, highlight anything where he expresses a positive opinion in green, and highlight anything with a negative opinion in red. I think we'll find quite a few offsetting posts.

Disclaimer: it is Day 0, so I'm not expecting anyone to have iron-clad reads from the get-go. No single one of these is damning, but there are a LOT of these suckers.

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:42 pm Hey everyone!

Pleased to meet you all, very excited to play this game with everyone!

I've read through the thread and I'm suspicious of M Plus 7, slight town-read on Tsai, I want to town-read Jagged but M Plus 7 says they're good at acting Townie so I'm a bit reluctant to do that but I've felt like they've been genuinely hunting so far rather than faking it, and I wanted to town-read Mac based on tone but I think they might have possibly slipped?

First post ever. Offers some reads on Tsai, JJJ, and noncommital on Mac

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:42 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:40 pm

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:37 pm Okay, thanks. So basically, you think it seems reasonable that he's confident due to his past games, and therefore, as a Townie, that confidence would translate into confident reads, whereas as Mafia he'd be more cautious?

That's my best guess, yes.

The nice thing about MP is that he is never going to stop posting, even when he shouldn't be posting, and we'll have every opportunity to critically assess whatever he is doing.

Alright, thanks. That perspective does make sense to me, but I can also see worlds where he does this as Mafia, either because he's aware he might need to come off as more confident, or because he's confident enough to pocket people, so I don't want to give too much credit to that theory personally

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:56 pm Also despite her reasonable explanation for it, aby's kind of reluctance to have much of an opinion on M Plus 7 is pinging me

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:18 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:32 pm Look at Tsaiah asking questions and shit.

TSAIAH IS PURE AS FUCK

I WILL CUT ANYONE THAT KILLS HER

Again the confidence in her purity even though you've never played a full game with her so presumably don't know her that well pings me. I agree she looks like she's genuinely solving but I also think she could be faking it, and I don't share your confidence in her being so pure to that degree, which is why it pings me

Two separate reads here: Net neutral on Tsaiah, but still suspicious of MP, as mentioned above.

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:55 pm And, if I'm reading it correctly, he's basically saying 'if I were Mafia I'd know you were citizen, and that's the only scenario where I'd know'. That assumes you're a citizen because he's ignoring the possibility of you being Mafia, meaning that if he was Mafia, he'd be your partner instead of knowing you were a citizen.

I'm not 100% convinced that him working under the assumption you're Town in that post is a 'slip' because he could have just done that as Town of course, and the fact the rest of his posts seem Townie to me makes me want to say gut-wise it's not a genuine slip, but I think it's worth considering at least unless I'm completely misunderstanding it

We'll come back to this one.

In response to JJJ's take on DH:

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:24 pm "I already spoke about this post. Not a fan."

I understand your perspective on it, although it wasn't my initial interpretation of it, I just saw it as a joke and that's basically it, I don't necessarily think there's some agenda behind it, though I do agree it's compatible with having an agenda behind it as well.

"This has now become a trend. This is a negative statement about MP which feeds the climate initially generated by Infected_alien8 against him -- but it's masked under the veil of humor. To imply that MP has been promising a rainbow list and failing to deliver is an accusation, and it carries certain weight. That weight is discarded within the humor presented here by the man who made the comment in the first place. Yuck."

I think this is the most compelling point in my opinion, it is a bit of an attack covered in a joke so that he can point it out but not be the one to push it and hopes others will instead so that they take the blame for the lynch/make an enemy with M Plus 7. Could also just be purely a joke and he didn't actually care about the rainbow reads list at all but I get your interpretation, and slightly lean towards agreeing.

"MP then posts the rainbow, and DH gives him shit based upon the inherent invalidity of rainbow lists (see here). MP can't win."

Assuming he was in fact serious about the rainbow reads list yeah this seems like he's targetting M Plus 7 a bit here, in an unfair way, possibly Mafia-agenda

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:24 pm Okay I'm caught up.

I think my top town-reads would be Jay and Tsiah. My main suspicion M Plus 7. Town lean on Mac too but I can't help but feel their post explaining their 'fake' reads was an excuse to stop Jay pushing on them, but it does make sense so I'm sort of like 'well fair enough'. I feel like I need to mull over that post

My opinion is that this is neutral on Mac. Just noticed that Tsaiah morphed into a "top town read" in the space of one post, when the previous one said she "could be faking it".

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 pm

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:36 pm Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually

I am inclined to disagree on this one. I found Russ's take on your proposed Mac slip to be convoluted, in that the variables he introduced (primarily the relationship/experience you've had or not had with MacDougall) to be of shaky relevance, and I struggled to follow the thread of thought he was putting to paper.

Actually I can see that, I too was kind of confused as to where he was going with that, it felt like he was going to say that if I knew him it'd be worse for me because he said it would be a good 'revenge lynch', but then suddenly it was the opposite and I didn't quite feel like I was riding his thought process with him very well, which could be a sign he was kind of making it up as he went along I guess?

I guess maybe net positive on me? If it is positive, it leaves a LOT of wiggle room to change stances, though.

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:08 pm (interior quotes removed for length)

There was one point I found compelling in your ISO of Dharma yes, but it's not compelling enough to make me want him lynched over M Plus 7. What was the thing about kyle? The russ thing yes, I can see your perspective, I asked Russ to explain where he was going with that and I'll go from there with that read.

I don't think I have 'one guy in my crosshairs' at all, he's my top suspect but he's not my only suspect and I think I've made that clear at least.

That he had more than one guy (MP7) in his crosshairs was NOT apparent at this point, by the way, as Jay pointed out.

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:10 pm

abyssum wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:00 pm at some point i want somebody, in some game, to realize that trying to tease out people's thought processes on another player isn't automatically a defense

which is probably a thing you should know based on the way you "defended" Turnip Head without it really being a defense

Well, it felt to me like it was you defending M Plus 7 instead of trying to tease out my thoughts, but looking back on it through your ISO I can see a world where you're doing it to tease out my thoughts as well and you actually haven't defended him as much as I had in my mind. Still though, do you not find your lack of mindmelds with him at all concerning? Didn't you mindmeld with him right from the start last game?

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:30 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:23 pm Mac doesn't give a fuck whether sprityo is town. He sees an easy D1 lynch.

Hm, I think I see what you mean here? Like, the post is about 'look at what sprit is doing that's bad regardless of alignment', not 'is sprit Mafia' in this bit

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:30 pm Not sure if I get much out of it alignment-wise though, why do you think that comes from Mafia over Town specifically?

(These last 2 were consecutive posts from him, about the same thing.)

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:01 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:56 pm Alright fine if I made just a giant ass of myself so be it. I'll just walk away. Clearly you all could do without me anyway probably.

Not at all. Fwiw I think your point about that post lacking a sense of him sorting his alignment makes sense and your case does make me reconsider him, because even though it's just one post, it could be him falling short on keeping his act up all the time of genuinely trying to sort him. But Townies aren't exempt from making those posts either of course, so it's not something that makes me want to lynch him, just reconsider him, but even if it's wrong and you're Town you at least made sense so didn't make an ass of yourself in my eyes.

This one.....wow. SIX back and forths on Mac! In one post!

2.

Following JJJ's lead.

This one I have to talk about a little. Again, Jay already pointed it out (along with mentioning that Alien's reads have been noncommital, as I showed above):

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm A trend I have noted in your posts is that you've been pretty agreeable, at least in your dealings with me, in that you have acknowledged at least some portion of a point being made without really committing to that thought. Indeed, the only commitment I observe in your play to this point is to voice suspicion of M Plus 7. I can understand having suspicions of MP, but for him to be the sole suspect of note at this stage of 700 some posts is hard to believe.

Alien has talked to Jay a LOT. I won't quote them all, because there are actually too many and this post will be monster already. But Alien has asked JJJ 23 clarifying or follow-up questions about something he said. To reiterate: 23 follow-up questions. That is NOT including general questions to the thread, commentary or responses to things Jay has said, it's literally just the questions. It looks like buddying/trying to make Jay notice how engaged he is, to me.

Not to mention the times JJJ LITERALLY WAS INSIDE ALIEN'S HEAD:

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 pm

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:36 pm Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually

I am inclined to disagree on this one. I found Russ's take on your proposed Mac slip to be convoluted, in that the variables he introduced (primarily the relationship/experience you've had or not had with MacDougall) to be of shaky relevance, and I struggled to follow the thread of thought he was putting to paper.

Actually I can see that, I too was kind of confused as to where he was going with that, it felt like he was going to say that if I knew him it'd be worse for me because he said it would be a good 'revenge lynch', but then suddenly it was the opposite and I didn't quite feel like I was riding his thought process with him very well, which could be a sign he was kind of making it up as he went along I guess?

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:24 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:45 pm

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:50 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:36 am Infected_alien8_ I guess I just don't really understand what your initial concern was with my history questions in the first place. like i see where you say "yes, I am also curious about that am waiting for a response" and where you said "cool, nice answer". I don't really understand what were you looking for. what kind of answer wouldn't have satisfied you?

I thought you were scumhunting/town hunting, or trying to look like you were at least, with that question, and I couldn't understand where you were going with it to sort anyone's alignment. So you saying that it was mainly just to make us feel welcome and get into the game made sense and so I'm fine with your answer.

An answer that wouldn't have satisfied me would have been one where you tried to insist it was helping you form a read on us that I didn't find genuine.

did you have that impression of my getting-to-know-you posts before Jay's commentary?

Yes, but I forgot about until Jay brought it up again if I remember correctly

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:41 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:38 pm If I had to state what I dislike most about MacDougall, it'd still be that we know for certain that he attempted to emulate his civilian meta when he joined the thread.

That's the thing currently echoing back in my mind as well

3. Asking lots of questions.

Colin just point this out, not about Alien, but I think it applies.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 pm Does Kyle usually ask a lot of questions? Like, maybe it’s the alcohol but this pinged me:

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:37 pm players who know infected alien, how would you characterize their civ gameplay? mafia gameplay?

do they often go out of their way to weigh in on things, both positively and negatively? is there a correlation to alignment or is it a consistent behavior across the board

When I’m scum I frequently will pose questions not necessarily related to anything in the thread that are juuuuust relevant enough to make it look like I’m attempting to solve. That’s what this post felt like.

Like I said, Alien has asked JJJ 23 follow-up questions. Add in the questions for other people and the general thread, and I'd bet dimes to donuts we're up over 50 in 135 posts. If Colin's point is accurate, Alien exemplifies it.

The Ugly.

You guys know I've been on Alien for this Mac "scumslip" thing. I won't rehash that. Instead, I'll point out all the times Alien said it was a slip, and then the times later on where he said that he never said it was a slip.

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:42 pm I wanted to town-read Mac based on tone but I think they might have possibly slipped?
......(edited for length).......
Despite the rest of mac's post making me feel he's Town, this could be a slip here - he's assuming Jay is Town and not Mafia, because if he's Town, imagining being Mafia still leads to the possibility of him them being Mafia partners, but he ignores that scenario.

The initial waffly, low accountability accusation, which I've already discussed at length.

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:55 pm And, if I'm reading it correctly, he's basically saying 'if I were Mafia I'd know you were citizen, and that's the only scenario where I'd know'. That assumes you're a citizen because he's ignoring the possibility of you being Mafia, meaning that if he was Mafia, he'd be your partner instead of knowing you were a citizen.

I'm not 100% convinced that him working under the assumption you're Town in that post is a 'slip' because he could have just done that as Town of course, and the fact the rest of his posts seem Townie to me makes me want to say gut-wise it's not a genuine slip, but I think it's worth considering at least unless I'm completely misunderstanding it

Sure, Alien is not "100% convinced". But he thinks it's slippery enough to raise (twice).

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:40 pm @MacDougall Your 'slip' was because you essentially said "the only way for me to know you're Town is if I'm Mafia', because an underlying assumption of that statement is that they're Town, because if you were Mafia you'd know it, as opposed to knowing they were also Mafia, which is a possibility to you if you're Town. We may just have different ways of thinking but if I'm Town and someone says 'you know I'm Town', my natural reaction isn't 'well if I was Mafia I'd know it, but I'm not Mafia so I don't', because that assumes you are in fact Town. I might think 'well, *if you are in fact Town* then the only way for me to know that is if I'm Mafia', and it was the 'if you are Town' bit that you left out, which could be because you're not thinking about it that way, you're assuming they're Town, because you know they are, because you're Mafia. It's very nitpicky but it's possible it reflects your thought process perfectly and you didn't have any doubt about them being Town.

I don't necessarily think it is actually a slip from scum, my gut says it wasn't at least; maybe just you didn't feel the need to add that part of 'if you're town', even though you did think it, or maybe it was an accidental assumption during that specific part of the thread, like you came at it from an angle of 'you're making this accusation that I'm Mafia and I'm showing you why I've identified this by speaking about it from your point of view', but it *could* be a slip, which is why I pointed it out. Hope that makes sense?

Now it's "Your (Mac's) slip" in the first paragraph, sounding like an assertion that this factually happened and was a slip. Then in paragraph 2, "I don't necessarily think it is actually a slip from scum" (so we're back to "maybe a slip"), then "my gut says it wasn't at least" (not a slip), and then finally "it *could* be a slip, which is why I pointed it out" (which to me reads as "maybe a slip, and I'm leaning that it is".

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:15 pm @JaggedJimmyJay why did you say that Mac wouldn't like your stance on his slip if you didn't actually think it was a slip?

Also for anyone who's played with Mac, is his response to the slip thing telling at all? Would he have such a strong reaction as a Townie do you think?

In both of these references, his slip is just straight up a slip, no waffling.



Then, I started giving Alien heat, and lo and behold!

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:47 pm I didn't say I thought he slipped, I said I thought he possibly slipped, and that I didn't think it was genuinely a slip myself because he seemed Town other than that and my gut says it wasn't, but I wanted to point it out anyway to see if anyone else made anything of it. I didn't want to act like I thought he was genuinely slipping because I didn't, and I didn't see the point of pressuring him to think I did other than to make us have a pointless debate about it.

The colored parts here cannot coexist. Saying you think someone slipped and saying you think someone possibly slipped are actually equivalent. The ONLY difference here is that the second one makes you less associated with the sentiment. This is a CYA.

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:23 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:05 am I think Alien may have been grasping at straws with that slip talk and has now found themselves in the (unenviable) position of defending and debating a suspicion they knew was bunk. On notice.

I'm not defending it, I don't believe in it myself, I said so right from the moment I pointed it out, or right after. I pointed it out to get other opinions on it.

Again, the colored statements above cannot coexist. More importantly, both of these are false, as shown above. You did waffle a CRAPTON making the accusation, but you definitely made it. If you believe it wasn't a slip, then why did you come into the thread saying it might be MULTIPLE TIMES? No civ who genuinely doesn't believe something treis to draw attention to it like that.

It's worth pointing out here that a slip is, by definition, the most obvious of any mafia tell, and we're (mostly) highly experienced at this game and at finding slips. If it were truly a slip, someone would've pointed it out, which is why I keep saying if you don't believe it's a slip, it makes no sense to mention it. Even if you don't, if a slip exists it will be brought up. You were the only person to push this, and you did it in a way designed to give you as littel exposure as possible to blowback no matter the outcome.