Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[Jackofhearts2005]

I read everything Sloonei wrote there and found myself going “not necessarily” at a lot of it.

The problem here is that when you pick single posts out, a townie who suspects Mac and pursues him a bit before going after different wolves doesn’t look all that different from a wolf who distances a bit before going after the other team.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I read everything Sloonei wrote there and found myself going “not necessarily” at a lot of it.

The problem here is that when you pick single posts out, a townie who suspects Mac and pursues him a bit before going after different wolves doesn’t look all that different from a wolf who distances a bit before going after the other team.

Then let Mac’s own posts tell you the story.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I kinda think Jay isn’t teamed with Mac tho.
And the same with Juliets.



[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

[Sloonei]

MacDougal pt. III

Spoiler: show

G-Man is outed imo. Dyslexicon looks like a teammate too.

G-man was a popular suspect in the immediate aftermath of the Radish lynch. Mac rides that wave. Good look for G.

Spoiler: show

I think Sabie is on the Radish team. The way she was addressing Radish was sparse and awkward. She didn't respond to Radish when Radish picked her vote on Nut out as the worst vote. But every time I say something anti-Sabie she's there to comment on it.

Turnip also looks bad from this. The way he ended up on Nut D1 even though he supposedly suspected Radish. And also D2 built counter wagons to him. Not a great look. Though I've been reading Turnip more town otherwise. Idk.

I can vibe that. I think Dom, Jack, G-Man and Sprityo are more likely to be radishes teammates but Sabie could be on either team fmpov.

I think the non radishes team are more likely to have been laying low once the wagon formation became clear. It would be needless for them to participate. I'd say that the other team are more likely to be among the people voting earlier or off wagon entirely since they were coasting by the end. Sabie profiles here.

I think Michelle and Tranq profile as suspects too. I'd be interested to hear nutella's feelings on Michelle given she had a strong town read on her earlier.

I think most of the people who voted late are relatively clean with the exception of Sprityo because his vote was on me. So that's TH, Colin, Juliets, Epi and TSP I think. I think it's unlikely any of them would make that vote if they were scum, even if they weren't on MR's team.

Juicy content here. Confirmed Town Hero Dizzy calls out sabie as a potential Radish partner. Mac latches onto that and lumps in Dom, Jack, sprityo and G-man. Sprit is the only one of those four who has flipped and we know he was town. I'm exceedingly confident that the other three are not on Mac's team.

What I'm more interested in here is the rest of these two posts. Dizzy also singles out Turnip Head as a suspect, but Mac makes no mention of that. Instead he launches into an unrelated defense of "most of the people who voted late". That list of names includes: "TH, Colin, Juliets, Epi and TSP"
So that's 3 of my prime suspects from parts 1 & 2. The strongest of those suspects was already Turnip Head, and given that Mac is ignoring Dizzy's suspicion and instead turning this into a positive on TH is not an inspiring look. Juliets is a confident not-mac-partnered read (and not-radishes-partnered read, but that's not our concern here), and Epi was more or less null because Mac's had nothing to say about him so far. In fact, I'm about ready to lump him in with Tony as a player Mac has brought up a few times without actually saying anything substantive.

Spoiler: show

The other thing worth noting is that given I didn't get many more votes on me when the MR wagon started to take off (literally just Sprityo) it means that MR's other teammates were most likely already voting for me, so would have been pushing me without any ability to increase the numbers on my wagon. Staring blankly in the direction of Jack.

Just quoting this to emphasize that Mac appears to be genuinely hunting for the other team at this stage.

more turbup defense

Spoiler: show

ColinIsCool
Dyslexicon
Turnip Head
juliets
S~V~S
Epignosis
TonyStarkPrime
Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr
sig
Dragomir
speedchuck
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
Michelle (a)
Tranq (a)
Jackofhearts2005 (b)
sabie12 (a/b)
Dom (b)
G-Man (b)
sprityo (b)

If anyone wants to actually get into some nitty gritty discussion I'm keen. If there are any reads here that are wtf let's talk.

A rainbow. Neat. Colin is somehow the top green read. Does Mac support his teammate that aggressively? This shakes my Colin suspicion a little, but not enough to dismiss it outright. Turnip Head is in the same tier, but that's actually reflected in Mac's posts to this point. Epi and Tony also get the Dark Green treatment despite minimal handling. Granted that Mac's post-Day 2 analysis existed to grant favorable reads to all three of these folks, but given how light it was I'm not particularly fond of these placements. I have to wonder whether he'd position his entire team in the top tier of a rainbow (and it's obviously impossible that all four of TH, Tony, Colin, and Epi are his teammates). I also not that Jay and I are now green, along with ted and sig(?). That entire second green tier makes no sense. I remember zero substantial interactions with ted, several hostile interactions with sig, and a few vague shade posts directed at jay and myself. speedchuck, nanook, michelle, and tranq make up the middle tiers of the rainbow. I've felt varying levels of good about the latter three elsewhere in this iso. His bottom tier is a list of people I'm almost certain are not on his team, and I think that list (the red names) represents his honest suspects at this time.

Mac does a 180 on G-man. I still think the progression on him as a suspect looked sincere.

Sabie
Mac
Ted

You think I am teammates with Sabie? For real?

Just noting that Mac has nothing to say about Ted here.

Spoiler: show

I'd like to hear some non Mac talk from people who haven't said much. Epignosis and JaggedJimmyJay you guys have been unusually low key. Care to express yourselves?

Generic prods for Epi and Jay.

Spoiler: show

I’m going to float the idea that this game is chaotic because there are two scum teams trying to outdo each other. Anyone want to ask me why this is important?

How is this game any more or less chaotic than any other games? It hasn't felt chaotic to me at all.

Generic banter with Iron Man. Okay. This might be the most meaningful thing Mac has had to say to/about Tony to this point.

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

This is such a teammate thing to say, specifically the line "I don't suspect Radishes I just don't see anything townie in him"; that's how someone talks about their guilty friend

At least someone sees it...

This has shades of the point I made about Jay's tranq post earlier, but it's slightly different: Here TH is supporting a read that Mac has been spouting for a while. In that light, I do not struggle to read this as a teammate interaction. I may be entering a tunnel on TH/Mac.

Singles out Tranq and Michelle, in what looks like a suggestion for people nutella can investigate(?). I'll call this a good look for those two. Mac has no incentive to sick nutella on his partners like that.

[Skipping tons of stuff with dead people/people i've ruled out]

Nothing response to an Epi post. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Does anyone have anything to say about Tranq's contributions? They seem like your common scum slank style play.

Desperation heave against Tranq. None of mac's little jabs at Tranq have had the scent of bussing, but none of them have been strong enough for that to be a slam dunk read. I have no direct reason to suspicious of these two in association with each other.

Spoiler: show

I don’t remember syndicate games being this toxic or filled with vitriol.

Maybe I just have selective memory

It's generally a common thing that occurs when people tunnel me. I'll take the heat on this one.

Not everyone who suspects you is tunnelling.

What is tunneling?

No, not everyone is. Jack isn't. Nutella isn't. Sloonei isn't. There are a lot of people who aren't. At this point I think the majority of the game have at least some suspicion of me with the notable exceptions of Turnip Head, Tedxtr et al. I'm not going to comment on whether you are or not because I what is and isn't tunneling is rather open to interpretation. But I think it would be quite impossible to believe that I haven't been the victim of it to a significant degree. I don't exactly have a problem with it either, in a grudge holding, long term mad at you kinda way. So as long as those who do it are willing to accept that if they are going to engage in me negatively, by applying tunnel vision, repetitive and adamant fashion that I am going to reply equally negatively then really we should able to have tiffs and flare ups and then work past them. That would be my preference.

Names! Mac lists myself, jack, and nutella as players "not tunneling" him. None of us are on mac's team. He then singles out TH and Ted as players "not suspicious" of him, and then moves on. Ted and speedchuck are probably the most absent players from this ISO, for what it's worth. That is more notable in Ted's case, as he's been a bigger thread presence and I believe I recall him having a strong defense of Mac at some point during the game. Interesting.

Spoiler: show

@Dom talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

Can we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?

Hot spicy tunnel take incoming! I remember this post because it's directed at me. At the time I thought it was just typical Mac (independent of alignment) lashing out at me and didn't put much weight into this post as anything other than an attempt to draw some content out of Mac. But as I look at it now in the light of this ISO, I notice a new detail: Mac abruptly lashes out at me the moment I start to focus some attention on Turnip Head. Spicy. I may have already alluded to this elsewhere, but I believe it was last year's GoC (or maybe A World Asunder?) where I caught Mac's partner (juliets) on Day 1, and he immediately turned that into a campaign against me as a way to both defend his teammate and potentially remove a threatening player. Shades of that exact thing right here.

Spoiler: show

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Look at this Town MVP making the confirmed bad guy spout new reads. Mac has done a complete 180 on both Epi and Colin (you'll recall they were at the top of his rainbow earlier). Very interesting. Mac has had very little to say about these two and has now reversed course on both of them. Is this a late attempt at distancing now that he's more of a risk to be lynched? I think his Michelle suspicion was genuine, so I continue to feel alright about her in relation to mac. speedchuck makes a rare appearance with a generic read which does nothing for me. Tranq makes another appearance as well. The Colin and Epi bits are by far the juiciest moments in this post.

Mac says more words about speedchuck, but none of these words really amount to anything substantial. Lame read.

Mac says more words about Epignosis, but none of these words really amount to anything substantial. Lame read.

Alright yeah Mac is just trying to play a tightlipped game at this point. He gave that list of reads and then shut it down. Very lame. It looks like he is unwilling to talk about these things, perhaps because he doesn't want to tip his hand any further. I expect there is at least one partner in these reads. Colin, Epi, and speedchuck are the candidates.

Another empty Epi response. I can actually see this in a positive light for Epi: Mac's response almost looks timid, like he prodded Epi and was shut down, and now he's downplaying it. That's not strong enough to dismiss Epi as a suspect, and there is certainly room to read this in a less favorable light. But it's something. Here is Mac giving me the same treatment one post later.

Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.

This post exists. At this point I think I'll get more out of my read on Tony if I read these interactions from his side rather than Mac. I'll just shrug at this for now.

Spoiler: show

Alright fine mac, gimme a town read or two.

linki: oh

juliets is really the only one I am feeling as a lock. S-V-S, ted, Turnip Head are civ lean. I've come around on Dom and Nanook. I was feeling okay about TSP until I just noticed he voted for me.

Day 3 Sloon was tired of non-cooperative Mac, so he changed his approach. juliets is a town read, duh. Among living players, so are TH, ted, Dom, and nanook. Tony has lost town-status. The TH read is consistent and doesn't change a thing. Dom and nanook are new developments, but I'm not inclined to read those unfavorable (especially Dom who is probably the most confident not-mac-aligned player in the game). I continue to not know why Ted is a town read. If it weren't for the bit about Tony's vote being on Mac, I'd also have no reason why any form of a read exists on him at all.

Spoiler: show

Lest I encourage bad behavior, I want to point out that Dom gets more emotional as a townie and I need some smart sounding reads right now for my own ego.

I hate to tell you that this isn't true.


But he's saying what my point against Colin has been from day 1. Colin's participation only increases when his team tells him he's in hot water.

It does look that way. I wouldn't go as far as to state it as fact though. He could just be checking in and scanning for mentions of his name as a townie. I think everyone is guilty of that from time to time. But it is scummy.

A wishywashy thing about Colin. I do not believe Colin was actually a viable lynch at this stage in Day 3, so this is pretty empty shade from Mac.

Spoiler: show

Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.

A few hours before this post — when Sig overtook you. I want to lynch not you. But also not Sig.

So you put your vote on me over 24 hours before EOD to stop sig from steamrolling to the lead but you don't want to lynch me though?

Seems a little bit strange to me.

This doesn't look like a very passionate exchange. Idk what that means. it continues

The way I am reading it is that TSP is attempting to use some sort of probability to justify his vote as opposed to actually taking personal accountability for a read, which is a scum mentality generally.

Okay. This is by far the most substantial thing Mac has had to say about Tony. It may be a genuine read. It may be a late attempt at distancing, but it feels a little convoluted for that. There was an extended build up to this, Mac had draw answers out of him, and this point is nuanced in a way that doesn't seem fabricated. Good look for Tony, at last.
Caveat to all of the above is that Mac might have been trying to plant a false trail at this stage. But I'm still inclined to look on this favorably for Tony.

Spoiler: show

Let me rephrase. He can do whatever he wants. But it should not be looked upon favourably by anybody who actually understands how to win this game. What he is doing is a specifically scummy strategy. If he was town he would attempt to cause the lynch of somebody he thinks is a good lynch.

If I am wrong for voicing this or your natural reaction is to mock me for it then I question how seriously you're taking winning this game as a civilian.

Here Mac kind of softens the read, but does not back down from it by any means. My inclination is to read this as a real suspicion, which is to say that Mac may have believed Tony to be a member of the opposite team at this moment.

Spoiler: show

Anybody got thoughts about ted?

I appreciate his existence and would prefer it to continue

Here we go. The player with the most evidence linking to them in this ISO prompting Mac to talk about the player with the lightest and most inexplicable presence. Let's see where this goes.
Nowhere at first...

Spoiler: show

Well I think he's a bit sketchy. Why do you like him?

Mostly because he's defended me. I don't see why any scum would do that in light of the hysteria about lynching me. Same reason I like you.

Somewhere at second. with quotes
... and that appears to be it. Alright that was unjuicy. Well, ted's mac defense is quite juicy, but I'm not about to analyze that at the moment. I'll also want to look at how TH has handled ted outside of this interaction. TH remains a viable suspect, and if that is the case I could see room to read Ted as teammate #3 in this exchange, but so far it is inconclusive.

Spoiler: show

Let me rephrase. He can do whatever he wants. But it should not be looked upon favourably by anybody who actually understands how to win this game. What he is doing is a specifically scummy strategy. If he was town he would attempt to cause the lynch of somebody he thinks is a good lynch.

If I am wrong for voicing this or your natural reaction is to mock me for it then I question how seriously you're taking winning this game as a civilian.

this is right.
if Mac is scum this is moot I think but in either case if I’m serious I’d be spending more time trying to find a better lynch.
ironically Mac knows that I’d be more serious about it if I were scum.
But I don’t care enough to save Mac.

Quite quite quite the opposite

Meanwhile, I'm feeling better and better about Tony not being on Mac's team.
Yeah. If Tony and Mac are partners, then Mac decided to keep him at arm's length for most of the game and then abruptly turn on him at the last minute. Certainly not impossible, especially for a crafty pair of players like this. But I'm not inclined to read it that way without any other evidence to suggest it.

Spoiler: show

Masters team = Sloonei, nutella + +
Anti monitor team = Jack +

There are a range of players who could go either way. Dom, Nanook, Jay, Epi. Heaps more tbh.

Actually piqued by the idea of Sloonei and nutella being teammates now that I've said it. They've sparred like teammates do iirc.

Hey look, another assembly of names. Mac continues to do nothing meaningful with Jay or Epi (or me).

Spoiler: show

Watch and behold as the Sloonei/nutella kerfuffle goes absolutely nowhere.

Not that it's explicitly significant to me, but Mac tried to set up a nutella vs. sloonei thing at this stage in the day, which I'm reading now as an attempted distraction/aggressive mac smokescreen. I only bring it up because it provides a window into his strategy at this point: he's throwing shit at the wall and making noise.

Spoiler: show

I took it as a rhetorical.

I pursue an answer. I think they both look to form; you don't. What is to form?

I am missing the earnest attempt to persuade others from nutella. I would expect more pomp.

This exchange where Mac dodges Jay's question is another good look for Jay.

A last second empty jab at speedchuck. Okay.

And then he's dead. Ignoring Mac's ghost because that's open WIFOM season,

The most interesting development in this final section for sure is the improvement of Tony's status. I'd be willing to bump him up to a green shade on the rainbow. I also had one point in favor of Epi after several shrugs, so I'll move him up to a light green as well. Ted moves down to orange pending further review. I'm adding a green tier to separate moderate reads from mild. Tiers themselves are not internally ranked. Final results:

Jack
Dom
juliets
Jay
Michelle
nanook
Tony
G-man
Tranq
Epi
Ted
speedchuck
Colin
Turnip Head

I came into this exercise having felt good about Turnip Head for much of the game, so his placement at the bottom comes as a bit of a surprise. The orange names are all low-key presences in this ISO that would require more investigation to parse out. Epi and Tranq are favorable reads that could easily change. Everyone above that feels like a stretch. Jay and Michelle are probably the least confident names in the middle green tier (Jay just because of who he is; Michelle because there wasn't all that much content, but there were multiple occasions where I felt good about her), but based on the evidence I have seen I would not be inclined to suspect them in association with Mac. The top three names are absolutely not on a team with Mac.

[Sloonei]

I read everything Sloonei wrote there and found myself going “not necessarily” at a lot of it.

The problem here is that when you pick single posts out, a townie who suspects Mac and pursues him a bit before going after different wolves doesn’t look all that different from a wolf who distances a bit before going after the other team.

That's definitely an added layer that complicates things in exercises like these for this game. I did my best to be mindful of the fact that sometimes Mac would be genuinely hunting, but at other times my usual instincts would kick in and I'd forget all about that. Multiball is confusing.

[Sloonei]

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go do Other Things with my life.

[juliets]

I am almost finished wading through Epi's posts (he was on my sort list) but I have to take a break.

[Jackofhearts2005]

MacDougal pt. III

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

G-Man is outed imo. Dyslexicon looks like a teammate too.

G-man was a popular suspect in the immediate aftermath of the Radish lynch. Mac rides that wave. Good look for G.

Spoiler: show

I think Sabie is on the Radish team. The way she was addressing Radish was sparse and awkward. She didn't respond to Radish when Radish picked her vote on Nut out as the worst vote. But every time I say something anti-Sabie she's there to comment on it.

Turnip also looks bad from this. The way he ended up on Nut D1 even though he supposedly suspected Radish. And also D2 built counter wagons to him. Not a great look. Though I've been reading Turnip more town otherwise. Idk.

I can vibe that. I think Dom, Jack, G-Man and Sprityo are more likely to be radishes teammates but Sabie could be on either team fmpov.

I think the non radishes team are more likely to have been laying low once the wagon formation became clear. It would be needless for them to participate. I'd say that the other team are more likely to be among the people voting earlier or off wagon entirely since they were coasting by the end. Sabie profiles here.

I think Michelle and Tranq profile as suspects too. I'd be interested to hear nutella's feelings on Michelle given she had a strong town read on her earlier.

I think most of the people who voted late are relatively clean with the exception of Sprityo because his vote was on me. So that's TH, Colin, Juliets, Epi and TSP I think. I think it's unlikely any of them would make that vote if they were scum, even if they weren't on MR's team.

Juicy content here. Confirmed Town Hero Dizzy calls out sabie as a potential Radish partner. Mac latches onto that and lumps in Dom, Jack, sprityo and G-man. Sprit is the only one of those four who has flipped and we know he was town. I'm exceedingly confident that the other three are not on Mac's team.

What I'm more interested in here is the rest of these two posts. Dizzy also singles out Turnip Head as a suspect, but Mac makes no mention of that. Instead he launches into an unrelated defense of "most of the people who voted late". That list of names includes: "TH, Colin, Juliets, Epi and TSP"
So that's 3 of my prime suspects from parts 1 & 2. The strongest of those suspects was already Turnip Head, and given that Mac is ignoring Dizzy's suspicion and instead turning this into a positive on TH is not an inspiring look. Juliets is a confident not-mac-partnered read (and not-radishes-partnered read, but that's not our concern here), and Epi was more or less null because Mac's had nothing to say about him so far. In fact, I'm about ready to lump him in with Tony as a player Mac has brought up a few times without actually saying anything substantive.

Spoiler: show

The other thing worth noting is that given I didn't get many more votes on me when the MR wagon started to take off (literally just Sprityo) it means that MR's other teammates were most likely already voting for me, so would have been pushing me without any ability to increase the numbers on my wagon. Staring blankly in the direction of Jack.

Just quoting this to emphasize that Mac appears to be genuinely hunting for the other team at this stage.

more turbup defense

Spoiler: show

ColinIsCool
Dyslexicon
Turnip Head
juliets
S~V~S
Epignosis
TonyStarkPrime
Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr
sig
Dragomir
speedchuck
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
Michelle (a)
Tranq (a)
Jackofhearts2005 (b)
sabie12 (a/b)
Dom (b)
G-Man (b)
sprityo (b)

If anyone wants to actually get into some nitty gritty discussion I'm keen. If there are any reads here that are wtf let's talk.

A rainbow. Neat. Colin is somehow the top green read. Does Mac support his teammate that aggressively? This shakes my Colin suspicion a little, but not enough to dismiss it outright. Turnip Head is in the same tier, but that's actually reflected in Mac's posts to this point. Epi and Tony also get the Dark Green treatment despite minimal handling. Granted that Mac's post-Day 2 analysis existed to grant favorable reads to all three of these folks, but given how light it was I'm not particularly fond of these placements. I have to wonder whether he'd position his entire team in the top tier of a rainbow (and it's obviously impossible that all four of TH, Tony, Colin, and Epi are his teammates). I also not that Jay and I are now green, along with ted and sig(?). That entire second green tier makes no sense. I remember zero substantial interactions with ted, several hostile interactions with sig, and a few vague shade posts directed at jay and myself. speedchuck, nanook, michelle, and tranq make up the middle tiers of the rainbow. I've felt varying levels of good about the latter three elsewhere in this iso. His bottom tier is a list of people I'm almost certain are not on his team, and I think that list (the red names) represents his honest suspects at this time.

Mac does a 180 on G-man. I still think the progression on him as a suspect looked sincere.

Sabie
Mac
Ted

You think I am teammates with Sabie? For real?

Just noting that Mac has nothing to say about Ted here.

Spoiler: show

I'd like to hear some non Mac talk from people who haven't said much. Epignosis and JaggedJimmyJay you guys have been unusually low key. Care to express yourselves?

Generic prods for Epi and Jay.

Spoiler: show

I’m going to float the idea that this game is chaotic because there are two scum teams trying to outdo each other. Anyone want to ask me why this is important?

How is this game any more or less chaotic than any other games? It hasn't felt chaotic to me at all.

Generic banter with Iron Man. Okay. This might be the most meaningful thing Mac has had to say to/about Tony to this point.

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

This is such a teammate thing to say, specifically the line "I don't suspect Radishes I just don't see anything townie in him"; that's how someone talks about their guilty friend

At least someone sees it...

This has shades of the point I made about Jay's tranq post earlier, but it's slightly different: Here TH is supporting a read that Mac has been spouting for a while. In that light, I do not struggle to read this as a teammate interaction. I may be entering a tunnel on TH/Mac.

Singles out Tranq and Michelle, in what looks like a suggestion for people nutella can investigate(?). I'll call this a good look for those two. Mac has no incentive to sick nutella on his partners like that.

[Skipping tons of stuff with dead people/people i've ruled out]

Nothing response to an Epi post. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Does anyone have anything to say about Tranq's contributions? They seem like your common scum slank style play.

Desperation heave against Tranq. None of mac's little jabs at Tranq have had the scent of bussing, but none of them have been strong enough for that to be a slam dunk read. I have no direct reason to suspicious of these two in association with each other.

Spoiler: show

I don’t remember syndicate games being this toxic or filled with vitriol.

Maybe I just have selective memory

It's generally a common thing that occurs when people tunnel me. I'll take the heat on this one.

Not everyone who suspects you is tunnelling.

What is tunneling?

No, not everyone is. Jack isn't. Nutella isn't. Sloonei isn't. There are a lot of people who aren't. At this point I think the majority of the game have at least some suspicion of me with the notable exceptions of Turnip Head, Tedxtr et al. I'm not going to comment on whether you are or not because I what is and isn't tunneling is rather open to interpretation. But I think it would be quite impossible to believe that I haven't been the victim of it to a significant degree. I don't exactly have a problem with it either, in a grudge holding, long term mad at you kinda way. So as long as those who do it are willing to accept that if they are going to engage in me negatively, by applying tunnel vision, repetitive and adamant fashion that I am going to reply equally negatively then really we should able to have tiffs and flare ups and then work past them. That would be my preference.

Names! Mac lists myself, jack, and nutella as players "not tunneling" him. None of us are on mac's team. He then singles out TH and Ted as players "not suspicious" of him, and then moves on. Ted and speedchuck are probably the most absent players from this ISO, for what it's worth. That is more notable in Ted's case, as he's been a bigger thread presence and I believe I recall him having a strong defense of Mac at some point during the game. Interesting.

Spoiler: show

@Dom talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

Can we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?

Hot spicy tunnel take incoming! I remember this post because it's directed at me. At the time I thought it was just typical Mac (independent of alignment) lashing out at me and didn't put much weight into this post as anything other than an attempt to draw some content out of Mac. But as I look at it now in the light of this ISO, I notice a new detail: Mac abruptly lashes out at me the moment I start to focus some attention on Turnip Head. Spicy. I may have already alluded to this elsewhere, but I believe it was last year's GoC (or maybe A World Asunder?) where I caught Mac's partner (juliets) on Day 1, and he immediately turned that into a campaign against me as a way to both defend his teammate and potentially remove a threatening player. Shades of that exact thing right here.

Spoiler: show

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Look at this Town MVP making the confirmed bad guy spout new reads. Mac has done a complete 180 on both Epi and Colin (you'll recall they were at the top of his rainbow earlier). Very interesting. Mac has had very little to say about these two and has now reversed course on both of them. Is this a late attempt at distancing now that he's more of a risk to be lynched? I think his Michelle suspicion was genuine, so I continue to feel alright about her in relation to mac. speedchuck makes a rare appearance with a generic read which does nothing for me. Tranq makes another appearance as well. The Colin and Epi bits are by far the juiciest moments in this post.

Mac says more words about speedchuck, but none of these words really amount to anything substantial. Lame read.

Mac says more words about Epignosis, but none of these words really amount to anything substantial. Lame read.

Alright yeah Mac is just trying to play a tightlipped game at this point. He gave that list of reads and then shut it down. Very lame. It looks like he is unwilling to talk about these things, perhaps because he doesn't want to tip his hand any further. I expect there is at least one partner in these reads. Colin, Epi, and speedchuck are the candidates.

Another empty Epi response. I can actually see this in a positive light for Epi: Mac's response almost looks timid, like he prodded Epi and was shut down, and now he's downplaying it. That's not strong enough to dismiss Epi as a suspect, and there is certainly room to read this in a less favorable light. But it's something. Here is Mac giving me the same treatment one post later.

Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.

This post exists. At this point I think I'll get more out of my read on Tony if I read these interactions from his side rather than Mac. I'll just shrug at this for now.

Spoiler: show

Alright fine mac, gimme a town read or two.

linki: oh

juliets is really the only one I am feeling as a lock. S-V-S, ted, Turnip Head are civ lean. I've come around on Dom and Nanook. I was feeling okay about TSP until I just noticed he voted for me.

Day 3 Sloon was tired of non-cooperative Mac, so he changed his approach. juliets is a town read, duh. Among living players, so are TH, ted, Dom, and nanook. Tony has lost town-status. The TH read is consistent and doesn't change a thing. Dom and nanook are new developments, but I'm not inclined to read those unfavorable (especially Dom who is probably the most confident not-mac-aligned player in the game). I continue to not know why Ted is a town read. If it weren't for the bit about Tony's vote being on Mac, I'd also have no reason why any form of a read exists on him at all.

Spoiler: show

Lest I encourage bad behavior, I want to point out that Dom gets more emotional as a townie and I need some smart sounding reads right now for my own ego.

I hate to tell you that this isn't true.


But he's saying what my point against Colin has been from day 1. Colin's participation only increases when his team tells him he's in hot water.

It does look that way. I wouldn't go as far as to state it as fact though. He could just be checking in and scanning for mentions of his name as a townie. I think everyone is guilty of that from time to time. But it is scummy.

A wishywashy thing about Colin. I do not believe Colin was actually a viable lynch at this stage in Day 3, so this is pretty empty shade from Mac.

Spoiler: show

Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.

A few hours before this post — when Sig overtook you. I want to lynch not you. But also not Sig.

So you put your vote on me over 24 hours before EOD to stop sig from steamrolling to the lead but you don't want to lynch me though?

Seems a little bit strange to me.

This doesn't look like a very passionate exchange. Idk what that means. it continues

The way I am reading it is that TSP is attempting to use some sort of probability to justify his vote as opposed to actually taking personal accountability for a read, which is a scum mentality generally.

Okay. This is by far the most substantial thing Mac has had to say about Tony. It may be a genuine read. It may be a late attempt at distancing, but it feels a little convoluted for that. There was an extended build up to this, Mac had draw answers out of him, and this point is nuanced in a way that doesn't seem fabricated. Good look for Tony, at last.
Caveat to all of the above is that Mac might have been trying to plant a false trail at this stage. But I'm still inclined to look on this favorably for Tony.

Spoiler: show

Let me rephrase. He can do whatever he wants. But it should not be looked upon favourably by anybody who actually understands how to win this game. What he is doing is a specifically scummy strategy. If he was town he would attempt to cause the lynch of somebody he thinks is a good lynch.

If I am wrong for voicing this or your natural reaction is to mock me for it then I question how seriously you're taking winning this game as a civilian.

Here Mac kind of softens the read, but does not back down from it by any means. My inclination is to read this as a real suspicion, which is to say that Mac may have believed Tony to be a member of the opposite team at this moment.

Spoiler: show

Anybody got thoughts about ted?

I appreciate his existence and would prefer it to continue

Here we go. The player with the most evidence linking to them in this ISO prompting Mac to talk about the player with the lightest and most inexplicable presence. Let's see where this goes.
Nowhere at first...

Spoiler: show

Well I think he's a bit sketchy. Why do you like him?

Mostly because he's defended me. I don't see why any scum would do that in light of the hysteria about lynching me. Same reason I like you.

Somewhere at second. with quotes
... and that appears to be it. Alright that was unjuicy. Well, ted's mac defense is quite juicy, but I'm not about to analyze that at the moment. I'll also want to look at how TH has handled ted outside of this interaction. TH remains a viable suspect, and if that is the case I could see room to read Ted as teammate #3 in this exchange, but so far it is inconclusive.

Spoiler: show

Let me rephrase. He can do whatever he wants. But it should not be looked upon favourably by anybody who actually understands how to win this game. What he is doing is a specifically scummy strategy. If he was town he would attempt to cause the lynch of somebody he thinks is a good lynch.

If I am wrong for voicing this or your natural reaction is to mock me for it then I question how seriously you're taking winning this game as a civilian.

this is right.
if Mac is scum this is moot I think but in either case if I’m serious I’d be spending more time trying to find a better lynch.
ironically Mac knows that I’d be more serious about it if I were scum.
But I don’t care enough to save Mac.

Quite quite quite the opposite

Meanwhile, I'm feeling better and better about Tony not being on Mac's team.
Yeah. If Tony and Mac are partners, then Mac decided to keep him at arm's length for most of the game and then abruptly turn on him at the last minute. Certainly not impossible, especially for a crafty pair of players like this. But I'm not inclined to read it that way without any other evidence to suggest it.

Spoiler: show

Masters team = Sloonei, nutella + +
Anti monitor team = Jack +

There are a range of players who could go either way. Dom, Nanook, Jay, Epi. Heaps more tbh.

Actually piqued by the idea of Sloonei and nutella being teammates now that I've said it. They've sparred like teammates do iirc.

Hey look, another assembly of names. Mac continues to do nothing meaningful with Jay or Epi (or me).

Spoiler: show

Watch and behold as the Sloonei/nutella kerfuffle goes absolutely nowhere.

Not that it's explicitly significant to me, but Mac tried to set up a nutella vs. sloonei thing at this stage in the day, which I'm reading now as an attempted distraction/aggressive mac smokescreen. I only bring it up because it provides a window into his strategy at this point: he's throwing shit at the wall and making noise.

Spoiler: show

I took it as a rhetorical.

I pursue an answer. I think they both look to form; you don't. What is to form?

I am missing the earnest attempt to persuade others from nutella. I would expect more pomp.

This exchange where Mac dodges Jay's question is another good look for Jay.

A last second empty jab at speedchuck. Okay.

And then he's dead. Ignoring Mac's ghost because that's open WIFOM season,

The most interesting development in this final section for sure is the improvement of Tony's status. I'd be willing to bump him up to a green shade on the rainbow. I also had one point in favor of Epi after several shrugs, so I'll move him up to a light green as well. Ted moves down to orange pending further review. I'm adding a green tier to separate moderate reads from mild. Tiers themselves are not internally ranked. Final results:

Jack
Dom
juliets
Jay
Michelle
nanook
Tony
G-man
Tranq
Epi
Ted
speedchuck
Colin
Turnip Head

I came into this exercise having felt good about Turnip Head for much of the game, so his placement at the bottom comes as a bit of a surprise. The orange names are all low-key presences in this ISO that would require more investigation to parse out. Epi and Tranq are favorable reads that could easily change. Everyone above that feels like a stretch. Jay and Michelle are probably the least confident names in the middle green tier (Jay just because of who he is; Michelle because there wasn't all that much content, but there were multiple occasions where I felt good about her), but based on the evidence I have seen I would not be inclined to suspect them in association with Mac. The top three names are absolutely not on a team with Mac.

I found myself nodding along with basically alla this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Still glad I went after Jay for a bit. We'll see what happens later.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I could see Colin and TH as masters but then I got nothing on wolf 4.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

lol all in-person class instruction at my university was just suspended for the rest of March due to COVID-19. Now I have to devise a plan to do everything remotely, so I just got busier.

[juliets]

Epi ISO

Voted speedchuck, Master Radishes, MacDougall. Day 2 and 3 votes look good. Not sure about Day 1 but it was Day 1 after all.

- Liked his G-Man post, pointing out that it's not the schtick that's bothersome it's the fact that he gave himself an easy schtick and then didn't provide good content.

- Disagrees with Jack's analysis of Mac's turnaround on nutella being bad.

- Mentions he wants to lynch Jay and votes him. Says Jay sounds phony. Asks G-Man if he would vote phony Jay. This was an early mention so if Jay is bad Epi sussed that out early. I don't think Jay is bad so this isn't a gl from my perspective.

- Tied up the vote by voting Radishes on Day 2 but voted Mac the next day. This is fine.

- Says sig is a civilian but many people read sig town early on in the game.

- Says Dom's assessment of Mac only caring about not being lynched is silly. Hmm. I didn't think it was silly.

- Says ted is teammate material with Radishes. I can see that.

- Answers Nutella's request for more thoughts by telling her to look at his ISO and that the best she's going to see from him is two hours in the evening. Epi, question for you: you used to post more frequently and be more involved in games, like I remember you playing from work. Why are you so limited with your time in game now? I know about the 2 jobs and 3 kids but those things haven't changed.

- I laughed at this, Mac as an angry old man. But it also it shows Epi standing up for Mac though he ended up voting Mac that day. Not sure at this point if he's on Mac's team or not:

Spoiler: show

Epi is like idk my 5th to 8th highest scumread. He’s not even really on the menu. I’d rather get GMan or Mac.

G-Man I get. I have my own grievance.

I have read so much shit about Mac and I still don't understand what people see there. I see an angry old man who yells at anything that yells back.

Meanwhile, Radishes is dead. sabie is dead. There's shit to work with there.

Is really intent on getting Jack lynched because sabie talked about Jack and always mentioned others names in the same breath. Not a terrible reason to see Jack as scum at this point.

Says sig isn't mafia but this was before Dizzy's post. After Dizzy's post he doesn't seem too impressed. Votes Mac who is bad.

Disagrees with Sloonei when he says sig is still a top suspect. Says lynch Jack. I really don't understand why he doesn't see sig as a top suspect at this point.

I don't understand what he's saying about Jack other than the sabie point he made earlier.

Spoiler: show

Hey guys just wanna catch up here a bitty bit.

Mac is still a person who could survive a nightkill but isn't who sig 'slipped' him to be? Or even on the same team?

How would we parse that? My sig suspicion remains independent of the 'slip', but it's a lot weaker without it.

You parse that by lynching Jack.

I completely missed the 'why' there. I know you suspect him, but how does he connect to this? Or is that independent?

Jack is on the sabie / Radises team.

What manner of civilian preemptively calls out anyone who might make cases against other people when "we're supposed to be lynching Mac." He accused anyone who might on Day 4 accuse anyone else as defending Mac.

That's because he's on the other bad team. The one with sabie and Radishes.

And sig is not?

Or do you propose Jack and Sig w/w?

I condemned Jack based on sabie stuff. I can link you if need be.

Then he preemptively calls anybody who makes cases against anyone after sig is dead teammates of Mac. That's horseshit. Jack is not a civilian. Lynch his ass.

- Epi posts he doesn't suspect Jack any more. Epi, what happened to cause you to change your mind?

(Split I think here)

- Votes Nanook for a post he made several days earlier saying sig would not get lynched, there were 4 better choices. I don't understand this vote given that Epi didn't think sig was bad either. I must be missing something.

- Agrees with Jack that the odds aren't good that sprityo is bad. This is a good look I think - I don't know where the votes ended up on this day though.

- Presents a case for Nanook which is pretty good from my perspective.

- Says ted is good -Epi, can you talk about your read on ted? I don't see it that way at this point.

- Finds TH good, he says nothing concrete but he feels honest. This is another of my potential scum reads.

- Votes JJJ which I disagree with but there are a lot of people who think Jay is scum.

- Changes vote to Nanook, then changes back to Jay. Epi, what was the reason for your change and change back?

Overall I would say Epi could be scum. I didn't see anything to convince me he is town except maybe his turnaround on Jack. We see some people differently like ted, Turnip, and Jay. I also don't understand why he did not see the case on sig. It seemed so obvious to me, it's hard to understand. I don't fault him for the Mac vote, I just don't get why he didn't see sig as the next one to lynch. Epi, did I misread you here?

I am all ears to those of you who are reading Epi as town at this point. Tell me what I'm missing. [mention]Dom[/mention] I would especially like your opinion of Epi at this point. My apologies if you have given it recently and I missed it.

[Sloonei]

lol all in-person class instruction at my university was just suspended for the rest of March due to COVID-19. Now I have to devise a plan to do everything remotely, so I just got busier.

can't you just make your students sign up for mafia games?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

lol all in-person class instruction at my university was just suspended for the rest of March due to COVID-19. Now I have to devise a plan to do everything remotely, so I just got busier.

can't you just make your students sign up for mafia games?

Y'all say too many bad words; I'll get in trouble

[Sloonei]

lol all in-person class instruction at my university was just suspended for the rest of March due to COVID-19. Now I have to devise a plan to do everything remotely, so I just got busier.

can't you just make your students sign up for mafia games?

Y'all say too many bad words; I'll get in trouble

Aw heck.

[juliets]

I won't make it to EOD tonight, too late for me. But I will be in and out for awhile this evening.

[Sloonei]

i'll probs be hovering around til the deadline, but other things are happening. sig's getting lynched today and that's final. At some point I'd like to finish digging into him and sabie.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A Case Against Turnip Head

*Note: the point of this is to propose the mafia motivations for TH's stuff that I believe to exist. I am aware other interpretations are possible. Protest as you may.

Spoiler: show

Actually, all your words are washing over me. I'm taking nothing in.

One time on my home forum I spent the entire first round just gif-posting a handful of times and not engaging in the game at all because I was busy. I got myself mislynched D1. But before I went, I made a final serious post in which I named the entire scum team.

Sometimes looking at something from the corner of your eye allows you to see more. /deep thoughts

Scum tbqh

Jack is town you seeley booths

I for one hate looking terrible but I'd rather lynch radish

Nutella is bad and Dom is her teammate

Sabie is thoroughly underwhelming to me. I saw her as more to the point and involved as town before. Thoughts?

[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

Town tho

These reads came during Days 0 and 1. I don't expect TH to be verbose in his explanations of their reads, and so I don't care much that these are unexplained purely on that basis -- having or not having an explanation. This means though that when a player like TH provides these kinds of snap reads, the only means we're left with to assess them is our own capacity to understand them without being provided an explanation. When I look back on these, I cannot determine why TH may have felt the way he expressed that he felt in these posts. That's not always the case when I view someone's gut reads, and now I have to shrug. There's no reason this can't be filler. It could be real hunting. It is at best meaningless for judging TH's alignment.

When prodded by Mac, they did expand on the nutella/Dom thing as well as nutella in general:

Spoiler: show

@Turnip Head can you extrapolate on your Dom/Nutella worldview please?

I mean I could, but I'm sure it could be refuted by logic and big brains

Dom's preemptive shade at Nutella followed by bussing her to an extent

Jack's getting cold feet because it feels like the wagon filled too easily. I think she's bad though, let's stay the course

Bad Nutella might get "mean" as suggested by someone, but good Nutella gets angry when she's wrongly suspected I don't see that anger here

The explanation for the Dom/nutella 1.0 connection leaves me disinterested in the connection. I don't need "logic and big brains" to be bored by it; it's just kinda nothing. I don't know why that progression looked like teammates any more than [insert any two players bickering here]. For context, here are the Dom posts about nutella 1.0 to that point: Post 1 | Post 2 | Post 3

Just seems bogus.

Spoiler: show

G-Man good

Colin bad probably

G-Man good

could be turbup, what you see

Hes one of those civs who won't lose you the game but he may not win it for you either. He's the Ryan tannehil of civilians

More snap reads on Night 1. Again, the format is fine -- indeed, it was probably motivated in part by my own application of the same format. I'd just declared a moment before: "G-Man bad".

The explanation for the G-Man read is nothingness though. It's not readily apparent what this has to do with the game at hand; it's a general comment about his contributions in [Mafia games].

Spoiler: show

I think I like Sloonei, but I don't remember why now.

maybe you can dig in memories?

This is two posts from SVS now that have felt like they could be written by a scum. Not that they are, just that they could be.

I certainly don't have a mindmeld with Radishes this game

Possible teammate distancing?

I am here, will catch up and post thoughts later today.

Uh, “champion”!

Going at Iso links and choosing the first.
Strange how he looks non interested in this game

More possible distancing?

I don't like the tone here. Shade has been thrown twice at Michelle for what look like ordinary accusations. I don't know why these in particular look like "possible distancing". It's just a goofy way to hunt when neither are flipped, especially over these tiny posts. Meh.

Spoiler: show

My blacklist in order of lynching priority:

Michelle
Colin
Master Radishes
Sprityo
Sloonei

My blacklist in order of lynching priority:

Michelle
Colin
Master Radishes
Sprityo
Sloonei

Why these bottom two names?

Vibes

The blacklist is generally consistent with prior comments. Consistency is easy, so I don't care. The list isn't necessarily a problem on its own power, but I do think it carries forward a pattern of underwhelming investigative input -- with or without verbosity.

Spoiler: show

THs lack of discussion and relying on others to do it for them gives me more of a scum lean.

Okay I asked my boy Jimmy to take a look at my top suspect. That doesn't make it a trend y'know.

And I don't think I'm not lacking discussion. I've discussed lots of things. Though I admit to saying less than I think

I am highlighting this specific comment for a reason. To this point in the review/case, it is believable. They haven't laid out their cards on the table. Cool. Later this looms larger for me though. I'll reference back.

Spoiler: show

I spent time ISOing Sabie, and I would like some opinion on that. I like Sabie's later posts tbh, but in the ISO I found a lot of excuses and putting things off, as in "I haven't read that yet" "I'll catch up later" "I need to check that". I find that scum is more likely to put off catching up or saying to check things and then don't. I also notice how little she mentions Radish and how waffly it is when she does. She also voted Nut with a pretty shaky rationale iirc. So I could see a Radish/Sabie connection. This is also strengthened by how Radish mentioned Sabie as one of the iffier voted on Nut, and how Sabie has not commented on that at all, but completely ignored it.

I honestly had the opinion that an actively involved Sabie with opinions would mean town and that a less involved and waffly Sabie would mean scum. And that she was not that hard to read. But I've gotten the impression that she may be hard to read? Some people have mentioned this at least. So I want opinions from people that know her. Anyway, I'll find quotes that stick out to me.

sabie reads genuine to me like she has nothing to hide

The things you point out about sabie are the same things that make me lean town on her lol. She seems, idk, off the cuff

Stuff like this make me wonder if TH was fudging his usual contrarian tendencies for appearances. It's just so token.

Spoiler: show

I'm back on the [VOTE: Colin] aubergine grind

I think the people discouraging us from a Colin vote look suspicious af

Possible teammate TMI. I don't buy it. To suspect Colin is fine, but to say that is not aligned with the progression of any Colin dialogue to that point.

Spoiler: show

I like sprityo for reasons I struggle to articulate. He is striking a balance between here are a few reads, take them or leave them and let me explain to you in great vivid detail who I think is mafia and why. He's giving reads and explaining them in some capacity, enough that one can mostly follow his thinking, but without it looking like he is working for appearances.

You've just described a mafioso

TH pooh-poohed a positive view I stated about sprityo. On it's own, that's whatever. I bring it up because of what came later:

Spoiler: show

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

You just described a mafioso Mac.

I turned this back on TH with specific regard to MacDougall. They ignored this comment entirely. They described Mac's mafia M.O. as if it's a clear civilian indicator, and when I suggested otherwise it did not get the time of day. I hate that. I appealed to TH's own style here. This should not have been ignored.

Spoiler: show

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

That's exactly what I think. Baddie Mac doesn't make that post, his instinct would be to write with a different angle

There is a difference between having a civilian read on Mac and telling everyone what Mac's instincts are. This looks utterly fake to me. It's one of their worst posts. How the hell do you know this is the case?

Spoiler: show

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

Garbage. The premise underlying this read is pure crap. I don't care if I felt it looked authentic before. I don't now. I mean look at me with a straight face and read this post out loud.

Why would a baddie express a strong town read and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that?

What? That's not a real thought. Mafia members do things like this in just about every damned game. No. This is MacDougall we're talking about. I hate it.

Moreover, consider the detail of this read and how that detail compares with TH's other reads to this point. Remember that highlighted bit I referenced earlier? TH isn't keeping any cards unrevealed here. They're saying plenty in Mac's favor. That means they treated Mac differently than they treated other players -- including other town reads. That is on its own an important thing.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine I don't like his unwavering suspicion of Mac and I especially don't like his reasoning re: Mac's changing opinion of Nutella

Wet fart.

Spoiler: show

I’m insanely town here.

Not really. We all know what supatown looks like and this isn't it. Saying you're "insanely town" is an exaggeration of reality

Giving Jack shit for saying shit Jack says.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: MR] aubergine

Day 2 vote for MR. MR was lynched. Mac had a decent poll lead earlier in that real-time day. Take note.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine I'm not seeing town fire in her

Looks like scapegoating to open Day 3 (immediately after Mac's near lynch on D2).

Spoiler: show

For real though Mac is clearly town and anyone who can't see that is not trying hard enough

Not the same kind of language TH generally used for other town reads.

Spoiler: show

Civs don't necessarily need to show progression they're allowed to change their mind. That's what makes it look natural.

Indirectly promoting their own image.

Spoiler: show

Don't forget that Jimmy is definitely maybe bad, we gotta squeeze him on to one of these teams

First mention of me being bad, and a nice preliminary set up to give me shit today. This shit preceded the gripes they presented this D5 that I wasn't consistent with my prior reads or whatever. That's extra. That's tossing on the heap. It's convenience for a player that I opened the day suspecting.

Generic gif reaction to Mac flipping mafia -- whatever

Spoiler: show

I just want to say that my opinions in this game have been varied and real. I defended Mac because I pridefully thought I knew how to read him better than anyone else (I hosted a GoC where he was bad). I duked it out with jack for a while before landing on a civ read of him. I voted sig yesterday to save Mac, but then I ended up voting offwagon because I started to think sig was town too and thought town deserved a flip on Mac. I think I just want to see the best in all my friends. The only thing I got right so far was catching radishes dead to rights, which I'm not getting enough credit for because the rest of my reads have been garbagio. I'm just winging it, and my play has been ego centric, which I'm realizing has not been good for the game

When I protested, TH ignored me. I have played Mafia with Mac since 2011. It's common knowledge that Mac and I both came here from RYM. Maybe I might have a clue? Meh.

Spoiler: show

I could vote Ted, sprityo or Nanook at this point, possibly in that order

Spoiler: show

Go back to my Radish and Mac reviews. SheTH handled both of them very similarly, because sheTH doesn't know the answers. SheTH worked their ass off to find the answers more than nearly anyone in this game, and shethey ended up wrong. I don't know how anyone can look at that content and tell me sheTH looks like a mafioso.

Pretending I am being contradictory or otherwise suspicious by town reading juliets for her defense of Mac and mafia-reading TH for their defense of Mac. This kind of appeal to consistency is itself shitty, and it ignores the N U A N C E that TH themself has waxed about so much in this day phase. But but muh nuance

Spoiler: show

I was wrong but my read looks and feels authentic, you even said so yourself earlier. It wasn't until Mac actually flipped that you've now started calling my reads "disingenuous" and considering my contributions to be "nothing". I will pull your quotes if I have to. I can see now that you were being opportunistic at the time when you called my read of him authentic, and you are being opportunistic again after his flip, calling my reads "disingenuous" and "nothing".
You're taking advantage of my reads
when
they
suit
your
agenda

You are Mac's actual teammate, I'm the unwitting pawn on your chessboard.

He hadn't flipped yet = turnip's reads look real and good
After Mac flips = I hate all of turnip's read, bullet point by bullet point

This bullshit almost got me lynched today. Think for ten seconds people. This is, in a verbose presentation, an accusation that I changed my mind. A G E N D A

Trash. As a game progresses and we assess and reassess the posts in it, our initial interpretations are unlikely to remain totally static. Indeed, when they do, that's a great indicator that it's a mafioso making the read. Consistency is a tool of evil.

When TH expanded per Jack's request, they again ignored the N U A N C E that I had just provided. They even referenced what I had said and still not what I said. Nothing about the "contrarianism" that I associate with TH appears in this post, because it doesn't align with the narrative they're presenting. It's junk.

~~~

Turnip Head has made numerous posts that I think were made in bad faith. I don't believe half of their reads. I think they look more like a Mac teammate than anyone in the game. They toyed around with lynching me today over a confirmed mafioso until I started to show a little damned emotion and make it a much more difficult crime to get away with.

There's your case.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

[sig]

i'll probs be hovering around til the deadline, but other things are happening. sig's getting lynched today and that's final. At some point I'd like to finish digging into him and sabie.

You so sure about that.

[Dom]

I didn't know Mac was posting from Jay's account.

Mac and I have more in common than some may think.

I've been trying very hard all game long to keep my cool. It gets difficult when I feel like I am not being heard.

...hey... uhh...

what's good about this post?

I am all ears to those of you who are reading Epi as town at this point. Tell me what I'm missing. @Dom I would especially like your opinion of Epi at this point. My apologies if you have given it recently and I missed it.

I'd lean civ, but I'm not certain. I won't be voting there without serious convincing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

...hey... uhh...

what's good about this post?

Certainly not the ellipsis abuse.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

The elipsis consented

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

*elipses

[Long Con]

The Price of Failure

"Architect!" bellowed the Anti-Monitor. "Why do you not bring me news of their deaths?"

The Architect paled. "Th-they had unexpected power, master. A strange artifact called the Star Rod, I didn't think it even e-existed! I-"

"SILENCE!" thundered the Anti-Monitor. "I no longer require your pathetic services. You have been nothing but a disappointment." And with that, he unceremoniously disintegrated the Architect.

"That's it?" said a watching shadow demon.

"Yeah, I'm kind of tired," said Long Con.

sig has been lynched! He was the Architect, a baddie on the Anti-Monitor's team, from Inception Mafia by JaggedJimmyJay and Sloonei.

Night 5 has begun.

[Sloonei]

[Epignosis]

- Answers Nutella's request for more thoughts by telling her to look at his ISO and that the best she's going to see from him is two hours in the evening. Epi, question for you: you used to post more frequently and be more involved in games,

People have been saying this about me for years now.

like I remember you playing from work. Why are you so limited with your time in game now? I know about the 2 jobs and 3 kids but those things haven't changed.

That was years ago. I could read in sips while I did mindless tasks (plus there was a stretch where students were assigned to work on a dumb computer program for 45 minutes a class). Now The Syndicate is partially blocked at work. Page 101 could fine, for instance, but then page 102 is blocked. Yes, I know I could read on my phone, but I'm not going to be sitting there looking at my phone.

I think I'll post this as my signature:

A Day in the Life of Epi:

8:00am - Start the workday
4:00pm - End the workday*
*4:00pm-5:00 or 5:30pm - Unless it's a homebound day and I'm visiting a student
4:30pm - Go for a walk (weather permitting) and shower later or just shower
5:00pm - Finish editing DFS content I didn't finish that day
5:30pm or 6:00pm - Cook supper and eat
6:30pm - Finalize DFS lineups
7:00pm - DFS (usually) starts. It is only after this time I have the freedom to get on here and start reading the walls of text that I feel like I'm only reading for the sake of reading, ignore sig, and interact with people. But wait!
8:00pm - I might choose instead to watch a TV show with Eloh or Eloh and the kids or play a game with them before they have to go to bed. If we do the latter (or even if we don't), it might mean:
9:00pm - Eloh and I watch a show. Those are usually just under an hour.
10:00pm - This is when Mafia gets the last few moments of my day, which by then is a broken, tired, alcohol-infused shell of a human being who gets to get up and do it all over again unless it's Friday or Saturday.

- Epi posts he doesn't suspect Jack any more. Epi, what happened to cause you to change your mind?

I believe Jack would be treating me differently if he were bad. He's not working up horseshit reasons to get me lynched (even though I believe he could have easily done so and has done so in the past), and I don't get the sense that he's trying to trick me. My opinion that Jack is good has only strengthened.

- Says ted is good -Epi, can you talk about your read on ted? I don't see it that way at this point.

I like the cut of his jib. His posts look reckless and I don't sense an agenda. I gave him shit early on (and later accused him of not responding but he did), and his response didn't sound manufactured to me.

- Votes JJJ which I disagree with but there are a lot of people who think Jay is scum.

Why do you disagree? My apologies if you've already said why.

Changes vote to Nanook, then changes back to Jay. Epi, what was the reason for your change and change back?

That was last night, right? Probably the bottle of Merlot and tenth beer.

Overall I would say Epi could be scum. I didn't see anything to convince me he is town except maybe his turnaround on Jack. We see some people differently like ted, Turnip, and Jay. I also don't understand why he did not see the case on sig. It seemed so obvious to me, it's hard to understand. I don't fault him for the Mac vote, I just don't get why he didn't see sig as the next one to lynch. Epi, did I misread you here?

If I say that you did, will you change your mind about me?

[Epignosis]

Holy shit, I didn't even finish catching up before the poll ended.

[G-Man]

Oof- I knew the meeting was going to be long, but I didn’t think it would be miss-the-deadline-by-almost-an-hour long. Let’s see what happens here...

[Jackofhearts2005]

Thank goodness Sig turned out to be mafia.

[Epignosis]

I did not mean my above post to sound discontented. I have a good life. It's just that when I spend most of my day reading stuff on the Internet, the last thing I want to do is read stuff on the Internet.

[G-Man]

Ostensibly, not a lot was learned here today. Cheers.

[Dom]

do we think the night polls mean anything?

[Epignosis]

do we think the night polls mean anything?

I do not. I chose "Dark Worshiper" because Eloh's migraines send us to a church service performed in the dark on Sundays.

I'm not making that up.

[Michelle]

do we think the night polls mean anything?

This ever happened into a game? I am curious about this too tbh

[Dom]

It was fairly common where we all started.

[G-Man]

It was fairly common where we all started.

Oh how I miss the good old days.

So are we just going to have the same argument about Jay tomorrow or will diversify? Day 5 seemed a bit limited in scope. That was fine while I had busy days to contend with, but we’re returning to a place of not having a sure-thing option.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Thank goodness Sig turned out to be mafia.

I was really worried

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I say we return to jay tbh

[juliets]

Epi, thank you for answering my question, I know it was tedious after a full day of activity.

I understand now why you can't post from work anymore. You didn't have to post your schedule, I believe you.

Yes, I have seen how Jack can make up "horseshit" reasons if he wants to lynch someone and he hasn't done that with you. I also read him as civ so I don't disagree with you I just wondered what changed your mind.

Re: ted, I'll agree with you that he is reckless, I think his heckling of me for something I didn't do shows that. From my POV he did have an agenda but I have to hand it to him, when I pushed him he double checked his assumptions and admitted pretty easily he was wrong.

I promised to post some reasons I see Jay as town and I will do that today. It will be later though because I don't have time before I got to work.

You ask if I would change my opinion on you if you said I did misread you about sig, lol. I may change my mind about you anyway because you patiently answered my questions and your answers are credible, you didn't just blow me off. Also, my top town read sees you as town and says it would take serious convincing to make him think otherwise and I respect that opinion. I think he knows you pretty well. (Also, thank you [mention]Dom[/mention] for answering my question.)

I think part of the reason I've been having trouble reading you is we have almost no overlap time in our respective schedules to interact in the thread. By the time you are free to come into the game I'm done for the day and leaving. It's not your fault, it's just a fact of life. I will try and do better asking you questions as things occur even it it's the next morning. Have a good day and evening if I'm gone when you get here.

[Turnip Head]

I don't actually want to punch Jay anymore, personally, I thought he handled yesterday reasonably well. I also disagree that yesterday was unproductive, we could have all voted sig and peaced out which would have killed momentum but we kept things spicy

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Yesterday wasn't a waste of time, per se, BUT it was bad. The kill was obvious, entertaining anything else just gives scum info they don't deserve.

[Turnip Head]

True but also oh well. We're doing good so I'm not worried. We need to sort everyone out, imo all players deserve a turn in the spotlight so we don't overlook anything. I think Jay looks town atm and that was a good opportunity to put him under the microscope

[Turnip Head]

Just my two cents you're welcome to disagree

[Michelle]

True but also oh well. We're doing good so I'm not worried. We need to sort everyone out, imo all players deserve a turn in the spotlight so we don't overlook anything. I think Jay looks town atm and that was a good opportunity to put him under the microscope

You are talking a little too general for someone who played the game actively.

Who is in your Poe now?

[Turnip Head]

Wow you've got your finger on my pulse. That's exactly what I've been doing.

Poe in the morning

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't actually want to punch Jay anymore, personally, I thought he handled yesterday reasonably well.

What changed?

[Turnip Head]

I don't actually want to punch Jay anymore, personally, I thought he handled yesterday reasonably well.

What changed?

My perception of your play. I wouldn't expect Mac's teammate to build such a thorough case on me either. I guess you could still be the antimonitor

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wouldn't expect Mac's teammate to build such a thorough case on me either.

Why not

[Michelle]

Wow you've got your finger on my pulse. That's exactly what I've been doing.

Poe in the morning

define morning in GMT time please.