Fleabag Mafia mafia win

[Marmot]

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
I have always wanted to catch JJJ as a baddie. I don't believe that I ever have. With only a few games left in my tank, I don't know how many more times our paths will cross. All this notwithstanding, JJJ is the part of the dynamic duo that I am more concerned about. There were a few posts that did not feel like the Jay I remember. It's not difficult for me to read him as supa-towning this thing hard out of the gate like this to maximize the baddies numbers advantage and put this thing to bed neatly and quickly.


SLOONEI
RIght now, he's toeing the line of standard-issue Sloonei. He started out less solvey, but it seems to be increasing. I wasn't a fan of his philosophy of building a POE based on who can be townread the least. He's not the only one who has espoused that line of thought though. Projecting town isn't all that hard in my limited experience. Overall, he feels like a slightly different model Sloonei, but nothing that requires a recall.

Here are the explanations for his reads on the two of you @JaggedJimmyJay. Tbh, the read on you isn't very compelling. I see things like "I've always wanted to catch JJJ as mafia" and "JJJ is certainly capable of supa-towning and wrapping this game up quickly and neatly", and wonder what the conviction that brought him to that conclusion is. Easy tinfoil, but nothing convincing.

The Sloonei read is kinda similar too. In both cases, he makes a comment along the lines of "This player is different than I remember".

It is very curious that one of you ended up POE'd while the other was townread.

[Johanna]

I'm at I don't care who we chop as long as they flip mafia wowee

Wow, how did we not think of that before???

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will have a belly laugh if mafia are caught in part because they mishandled

THE TRIAD

[Marmot]

Then again, I suspected Sloonei at various points Day 1 and 2, and didn't have much trouble at all townreading JJJ.

You both are definitely different people, which I appreciate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel that the arguments for chopping Dolby and G-Man are the strongest and invoke the fewest doubts (as compared to common POE names like [falcon, SoA] or alternative suspects like [Johanna, ilario]).

[Marmot]

I'm at I don't care who we chop as long as they flip mafia wowee

Wow, how did we not think of that before???

Step 1: coffee

Step 2: pants

Step 3: let's just vote JJJ off today so we can be sure that mafia can't poison the whole triad.

[Johanna]

I will not partake in CFDs. That's where I draw the line.

Spoiler: show

also I probably generally aren't around for 1AM EoDs much

[Dyslexicon]

Me and Johanna being in the same time zone.
Me looking out the window to see if Johanna is there, because obviously she looks exactly like her avatar.

[G-Man]

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
I have always wanted to catch JJJ as a baddie. I don't believe that I ever have. With only a few games left in my tank, I don't know how many more times our paths will cross. All this notwithstanding, JJJ is the part of the dynamic duo that I am more concerned about. There were a few posts that did not feel like the Jay I remember. It's not difficult for me to read him as supa-towning this thing hard out of the gate like this to maximize the baddies numbers advantage and put this thing to bed neatly and quickly.


SLOONEI
RIght now, he's toeing the line of standard-issue Sloonei. He started out less solvey, but it seems to be increasing. I wasn't a fan of his philosophy of building a POE based on who can be townread the least. He's not the only one who has espoused that line of thought though. Projecting town isn't all that hard in my limited experience. Overall, he feels like a slightly different model Sloonei, but nothing that requires a recall.

Here are the explanations for his reads on the two of you @JaggedJimmyJay. Tbh, the read on you isn't very compelling. I see things like "I've always wanted to catch JJJ as mafia" and "JJJ is certainly capable of supa-towning and wrapping this game up quickly and neatly", and wonder what the conviction that brought him to that conclusion is. Easy tinfoil, but nothing convincing.

The Sloonei read is kinda similar too. In both cases, he makes a comment along the lines of "This player is different than I remember".

It is very curious that one of you ended up POE'd while the other was townread.

These comments on Sloonei and Jay are not just based on how their posts read in this game, but also my perceptions of them from all my experiences with them as an aggregate over the years. They can say they are the same all they like. Sure, both of them have evolved to reach a very similar mindset in how mafia works. Their mantras and methods may be interchangeable, but my interactions with them and my perceptions of them are not.


I can explain further, but I that might hurt some feelings.

[G-Man]

Thumbs aren’t working right today. That last line should read:

“I can explain further, but I fear that might hurt some feelings.”

[G-Man]

JJJ, Ilario, Dolby, SOA



That's a good POE

If I'm not mistaken, you're vote has been off main wagons on both days now. How are you going to impact the game to a town win? Right now Dolby and SOA have wagons on them, so if you were to choose one of them, which one would you vote?

I vote for the players I think are scum. How am I supposed to know how I'm going to impact the game for a town win? That's a strange question. What's your answer to that question for yourself?


Between Dolby and SOA, I'd like to pull a move I've recently seen from @Master Radishes tie em' up and let it rand.

Ties are determined by the mafia, per our host. No ties, thank you very much.

Why don’t you (or anyone else posting since apparently) remember this from the rules?

Cuz' I rarely read the rules. I'm more of a shoot from the hip kinda player

This is just so

[NotAnAxehole]

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
I have always wanted to catch JJJ as a baddie. I don't believe that I ever have. With only a few games left in my tank, I don't know how many more times our paths will cross. All this notwithstanding, JJJ is the part of the dynamic duo that I am more concerned about. There were a few posts that did not feel like the Jay I remember. It's not difficult for me to read him as supa-towning this thing hard out of the gate like this to maximize the baddies numbers advantage and put this thing to bed neatly and quickly.


SLOONEI
RIght now, he's toeing the line of standard-issue Sloonei. He started out less solvey, but it seems to be increasing. I wasn't a fan of his philosophy of building a POE based on who can be townread the least. He's not the only one who has espoused that line of thought though. Projecting town isn't all that hard in my limited experience. Overall, he feels like a slightly different model Sloonei, but nothing that requires a recall.

Here are the explanations for his reads on the two of you @JaggedJimmyJay. Tbh, the read on you isn't very compelling. I see things like "I've always wanted to catch JJJ as mafia" and "JJJ is certainly capable of supa-towning and wrapping this game up quickly and neatly", and wonder what the conviction that brought him to that conclusion is. Easy tinfoil, but nothing convincing.

The Sloonei read is kinda similar too. In both cases, he makes a comment along the lines of "This player is different than I remember".

It is very curious that one of you ended up POE'd while the other was townread.

These comments on Sloonei and Jay are not just based on how their posts read in this game, but also my perceptions of them from all my experiences with them as an aggregate over the years. They can say they are the same all they like. Sure, both of them have evolved to reach a very similar mindset in how mafia works. Their mantras and methods may be interchangeable, but my interactions with them and my perceptions of them are not.


I can explain further, but I that might hurt some feelings.

Are you still on the JJJ wagon, because I feel like you may be giving the quality of his game too much credit. From my PoV, we kill J's potential partners (all in the PoE - narrow world), and if he's still alive in F3, J is the kill.

[G-Man]

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
I have always wanted to catch JJJ as a baddie. I don't believe that I ever have. With only a few games left in my tank, I don't know how many more times our paths will cross. All this notwithstanding, JJJ is the part of the dynamic duo that I am more concerned about. There were a few posts that did not feel like the Jay I remember. It's not difficult for me to read him as supa-towning this thing hard out of the gate like this to maximize the baddies numbers advantage and put this thing to bed neatly and quickly.


SLOONEI
RIght now, he's toeing the line of standard-issue Sloonei. He started out less solvey, but it seems to be increasing. I wasn't a fan of his philosophy of building a POE based on who can be townread the least. He's not the only one who has espoused that line of thought though. Projecting town isn't all that hard in my limited experience. Overall, he feels like a slightly different model Sloonei, but nothing that requires a recall.

Here are the explanations for his reads on the two of you @JaggedJimmyJay. Tbh, the read on you isn't very compelling. I see things like "I've always wanted to catch JJJ as mafia" and "JJJ is certainly capable of supa-towning and wrapping this game up quickly and neatly", and wonder what the conviction that brought him to that conclusion is. Easy tinfoil, but nothing convincing.

The Sloonei read is kinda similar too. In both cases, he makes a comment along the lines of "This player is different than I remember".

It is very curious that one of you ended up POE'd while the other was townread.

These comments on Sloonei and Jay are not just based on how their posts read in this game, but also my perceptions of them from all my experiences with them as an aggregate over the years. They can say they are the same all they like. Sure, both of them have evolved to reach a very similar mindset in how mafia works. Their mantras and methods may be interchangeable, but my interactions with them and my perceptions of them are not.


I can explain further, but I that might hurt some feelings.

Are you still on the JJJ wagon, because I feel like you may be giving the quality of his game too much credit. From my PoV, we kill J's potential partners (all in the PoE - narrow world), and if he's still alive in F3, J is the kill.

The quality of Jay's game is the reason why he can't be a near-term solution. His value as a civvie makes him difficult to chop, while also making him difficult for the baddies to kill for two reasons:

1) Jay is a magnet for protection role powers, like this game's watcher mechanic.

2) Baddies know that the longer they keep Jay in the game, the more suspicious his status becomes.


I've got a little time now before dinner to dig into my POE ISOs. I will admit that one of my failings on Lime Coke was that I was putting the cart before the horse and trying to find teammate potential without a confirmed baddie. I let potential teammate equity on Lime Coke to convince me of their guilt and I was trying to ratchet down on the next chop instead of the one in front of me. Not a good look. My track record on rooting out teammate connections is poor. I don't know why I let myself think I was right this time.

[Marmot]

2) Baddies know that the longer they keep Jay in the game, the more suspicious his status becomes.

I know this is an argument that is often made, but I don't think the risk of leaving alive to hunt down the mafia is worth the tinfoil that may come from keeping him around.

Also, there are so many strong players in this game that are probably civilian, it's not all that surprising that JJJ is still alive.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm usually going to be the first to receive blame for failings, even if those failings can be attributed to other people too. This isn't a complaint; I recognize it's the natural tendency. Fine. Mafia know it too.

[Marmot]

It's not your fault Jay, it's NAA's for not herding us well enough.

[Marmot]

I feel like I'm on auto-pilot right now, but everyone's telling me that's ok and not really challenging my view of the game, so I'll just keep doing that until.

Thoughts on that feeling Jay? How do you feel about the gamestate?

[Marmot]

I clipped my own post.

I meant to say "I'll just keep doing that until I am challenged"

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like I'm on auto-pilot right now, but everyone's telling me that's ok and not really challenging my view of the game, so I'll just keep doing that until.

Thoughts on that feeling Jay? How do you feel about the gamestate?

Not quite autopilot, though I'm at work currently and can't do much. I wouldn't say we should just churn through the POE right now after the initial two misses. I think we're in a decent enough place to say that the prevailing theories point to certain subsets (e.g. Dolby and G-Man for me), but I don't have a clear theory of a team of four right now.

[G-Man]

2) Baddies know that the longer they keep Jay in the game, the more suspicious his status becomes.

I know this is an argument that is often made, but I don't think the risk of leaving alive to hunt down the mafia is worth the tinfoil that may come from keeping him around.

Also, there are so many strong players in this game that are probably civilian, it's not all that surprising that JJJ is still alive.

There's also the reality that baddies can only kill one person at a time, and whichever supa-tier civvie is the last one hanging around usually gets the hairy eyeball by virtue of having been perceived as the least-threatening supa-tier civvie in the eyes of the baddie team. Sloonei and Jay had many similar opinions on POE slots, and only one of them can get killed first. If this is the case, then it's just an unfortunate inevitability. Tough break, Jay. Play down to my level a bit, and it won't happen as often.

[Marmot]

G-Man probably plays a mean game of scrabble though

[G-Man]

Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.

[G-Man]

G-Man probably plays a mean game of scrabble though

True story. Last night I scored 8 points off of placing two letters (Scrabble Junior is just one point for each letter you play), which resulted in the formation of three words:

EM
BOOGIE
BOX
_R

[G-Man]

Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.

This is, of course, very convenient an observation to make for a first ISO review, considering Dolby and I seem to be the favored targets at the moment. Don't think that isn't lost on me.

[falcon45ca]

Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.

Nice alliteration.


[VOTE: Gman] aubergine




Too much gussyin' up his words. It just doesn't feel natural

[G-Man]

Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.

Nice alliteration.


[VOTE: Gman] aubergine




Too much gussyin' up his words. It just doesn't feel natural

This is (checks ISO), pretty much the most you've said about me all game. Are you all-around allergic to alliteration? Or are you just searching for something to support the saving of your skin?

[falcon45ca]

Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.

Nice alliteration.


[VOTE: Gman] aubergine




Too much gussyin' up his words. It just doesn't feel natural

This is (checks ISO), pretty much the most you've said about me all game. Are you all-around allergic to alliteration? Or are you just searching for something to support the saving of your skin?

[G-Man]

There's nothing in Dyslexicon's ISO that makes me think differently about them being above-board. I had to skim it though. If you're fooling me, you're schooling me.

[G-Man]

Took a look at Falcon's full ISO just now. Beyond the JJJ tin-foil, which I am sympathetic to up to a point, there's not much meat behind his words or actions. It's coasty, but not as noticeably coasty as Dolby from 10,000 feet. If Dolby is just dipping his toes in the ocean, Falcon's gone in just over the knee. Less responding to others and more original content is needed. He stays in my POE.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General question for whoever wants to brave it:

If someone in the consensus POE is eliminated today and happens to flip town, is there any way in hell that both Dyslexicon and ilario are town-aligned?

[Johanna]

Probably? Maybe? I am kinda burned out of ideas. I don't think I have said a single valuable thing since my pre-DUNE catch-up.

[Marmot]

General question for whoever wants to brave it:

If someone in the consensus POE is eliminated today and happens to flip town, is there any way in hell that both Dyslexicon and ilario are town-aligned?

I think no? I dunno. I think if the POE is that wrong, we'd see more pushing from them against players not in the POE. Instead, we have consensus TRs in myself, NAA, Dizzy, Jo, and I believe irelio too. You're like the one exception, being a player not in the consensus POE, but still drawing suspicious.


Like if you're town and POE'd right now, you have a unique perspective on the rest of the game knowing that we're all wrong about you, and had the ability to convince us that the POE is wrong and we should look elsewhere. Since the entire POE is only pointing at JJJ outside of themselves, I think the POE is right.

[G-Man]

Tripping up a little over Ilario. For me, they are about a 75% null read. It's a new face to me, in a game full of new faces to me, so it's tough.

This post...

Fwiw I think it’s a dangerous road to go down if we already expect the zero posters to be scum heavy, or set an expectation that there’s a high number of scum in the zero posters. Whilst I feel good about the towncore atm the best indicator of that we are going astray would be if the zero posters come in and start towntelling. But I feel as though if we already have an arbitrary expectation that the zero posters will be scum heavy then we set ourselves to a bias and almost predispose ourselves to finding them more scummy than they actually might be once they do start speaking. I think if you approach someone with the mentality of thinking they’re likely to be scum then you’re more likely to misread them.

...I like more on the ISO review, because it's an honest assessment of the potential pitfalls of all the TR lovefest vibes from the first half of Day 1. I don't know that I would bother stringing something like that together if I was a baddie.

I do have a question for @ilario however:

You've been pretty agreeable with the consensus that I am a good chop choice, but why? If it's simply because you've already filled too many civvie slots with other people in your mind, haven't you betrayed your aforementioned admonition? Point to something qualitative that suggests I am a baddie. Otherwise, it seems like you're glomming along with me as an easy chop, which makes me want to hold you in my POE still.

[G-Man]

Tarrying on with my tin-foil-lite sus of JJJ.

Sorry, sir, someone has to fill that slot for me each game, and Sloonei's been marked for death.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@G-Man if you had to bet the game on naming three players as civilians, who might you choose?

[G-Man]

@G-Man if you had to bet the game on naming three players as civilians, who might you choose?

Tell you when I finish with the ISOs.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Johanna if you had to bet the game on naming three players as civilians, who might you choose?

[Marmot]

General question for whoever wants to brave it:

If someone in the consensus POE is eliminated today and happens to flip town, is there any way in hell that both Dyslexicon and ilario are town-aligned?

I think no? I dunno. I think if the POE is that wrong, we'd see more pushing from them against players not in the POE. Instead, we have consensus TRs in myself, NAA, Dizzy, Jo, and I believe irelio too. You're like the one exception, being a player not in the consensus POE, but still drawing suspicious.


Like if you're town and POE'd right now, you have a unique perspective on the rest of the game knowing that we're all wrong about you, and had the ability to convince us that the POE is wrong and we should look elsewhere. Since the entire POE is only pointing at JJJ outside of themselves, I think the POE is right.

Maybe I'm projecting too much what other people think of the game, but I'm running errands right now so not really doing my research very well

[Marmot]

(Oh, add TSP to the TR pool, I forgot that one)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine about to begin a ton of effort and giving myself space

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Dolby and falcon45ca fit together as mafia teammates?

From Dolby

Spoiler: show

Dizzy - looking back I think that some of the stuff that I'm worried about with JJJ applies here
falcon - don't remember a word they've said rn
G-man - same
ilario - towny, triad 2 posts better than posts near start of game
JJJ - have some level of paranoia towards here. This is most relevant in a world where G-Man and Jo are both town
Johanna - null. I don't think their day two entrance changes anything for me wrt to her either (there may be good JJJ points here). The only thing that looks even remotely bad is her characterization of TSP's behavior.
LC - vibes
Marmot - can be town
NAA - hank_scorpio_fire.gif
SOA - vibes
Sloonei - probs good
TSP - town (obv)

gn

I do not like the tendency among the consensus town/highposters that we just yeet the low-posters. I'm struggling to find any reads rn that aren't close to having the same effect as sort by postcount.

This has present from as early as the 200s, from Dizzy

Haven't even read fully yet, just feel the need to say this.

Also, Jo's D2 entrance isn't bad for them. No I will not elaborate

You keep mentioning you haven't fully read yet. Why?

In both cases I intended to fully catch up in that sitting, then ended up not doing that

@falcon45ca you were here a bit ago, what do your reads look like rn?

@falcon45ca you were here a bit ago, what do your reads look like rn?

My POE is unchanged from last night

Can you articulate why Dizzy and Ilario are in the PoE?

Like I would feel better if we voted Marmot over Falcon

sell me

The first post is something that I see 100% coming from Bluekang regardless of alignment

The second, tbh I just need to read their interactions more deeply because a lot of people are saying Lime and Falcon are paired and I don't understand it fully

I don't want to give JJJ the vibe that I don't treat his reads seriously bc I am regretting that snappy comment a bit, I have been trying to look into the LC/Falcon case for a bit but have been getting derailed

Even when looking at GMan's specific post I fail to see why people think Falcon and Lime Coke have significantly elevated wolf team equity.

@falcon45ca why is your vote on ilario?

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Let's go

[VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

nvm lets go

ugh cowards

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

ugh cowards

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

my vote is spiritually on falcon, but I don't want to actually set it to L-2

I have been in favor of you and JJJ yeets for awhile, and everyone know that JJJ wasn't actually happening

I don't really have a take on Falcon

Huh. What if we don’t chop Lime though?

Is there something moving you that direction?

His last post to me. I’m easily swayed by feels though, I’m aware.

haven't you been on falcon for awhile?

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

SPF is the triad pure?

Also do you have a moment to look at falcon?

The majority of this is soft pillow and not meaningful to me. The most important material comes late in Day 2, when Dolby toyed with voting for falcon, but also with voting for me. It's difficult to tell how seriously he took the prospect of falcon being eliminated -- he admitted outright that I wasn't likely, and said he had no take on falcon. If Dolby believed the Lime Coke elimination was significantly more likely, then the falcon votes become pretty ineffectual.

From falcon45ca

Spoiler: show

Hi I still haven't fully read the thread

I'm wondering...is there a point to telling us this?


[VOTE: Dolby] aubergine

I do not like the tendency among the consensus town/highposters that we just yeet the low-posters. I'm struggling to find any reads rn that aren't close to having the same effect as sort by postcount.

This has present from as early as the 200s, from Dizzy

Haven't even read fully yet, just feel the need to say this.

Also, Jo's D2 entrance isn't bad for them. No I will not elaborate

You keep mentioning you haven't fully read yet. Why?

Dolby - I tend to jump quickly on top of things that I don't like in game play, like his "haven't been able to catch up", and I'm wrong far more often than I'm right.

Dyslexicon - Has pushed the game forward and isn't afraid to engage and discuss with players.

G-Man - I can't actually think of much, other than being a low poster doesn't necessarily make one Maf

[etc trustfall exercise snipped...]

I'd actually put Dizzy in over SOA.


Ilario, Dolby, Dizzy, G-Man is my POE atm

JJJ, Ilario, Dolby, SOA



That's a good POE

JJJ, Ilario, Dolby, SOA



That's a good POE

If I'm not mistaken, you're vote has been off main wagons on both days now. How are you going to impact the game to a town win? Right now Dolby and SOA have wagons on them, so if you were to choose one of them, which one would you vote?

I vote for the players I think are scum. How am I supposed to know how I'm going to impact the game for a town win? That's a strange question. What's your answer to that question for yourself?


Between Dolby and SOA, I'd like to pull a move I've recently seen from @Master Radishes tie em' up and let it rand.

Take note that the first post in the spoiler represents the first instance in the game in which falcon hurled an accusation at someone and voted for them in the same moment. There was a similar moment directed at ilario earlier, but split into two posts. Take that however you will, but I am registering it as at least "unique". It wasn't falcon's first accusation, but it was the first with the vote attached. The yellow highlighted bit comes from a trustfall exercise and should not be confused with a reads list. Otherwise, when Dolby is mentioned it is within a broader POE grouping or in a pair with SoA in an uninspired final post calling for a tied vote.

~~~

Do they fit?

Sure they fit. I wouldn't say they scream "mafia teammates", but there no good reason I can see here to say they don't fit together.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Dolby and G-Man fit together as mafia teammates?

From Dolby

Spoiler: show

Dizzy - looking back I think that some of the stuff that I'm worried about with JJJ applies here
falcon - don't remember a word they've said rn
G-man - same
ilario - towny, triad 2 posts better than posts near start of game
JJJ - have some level of paranoia towards here. This is most relevant in a world where G-Man and Jo are both town
Johanna - null. I don't think their day two entrance changes anything for me wrt to her either (there may be good JJJ points here). The only thing that looks even remotely bad is her characterization of TSP's behavior.
LC - vibes
Marmot - can be town
NAA - hank_scorpio_fire.gif
SOA - vibes
Sloonei - probs good
TSP - town (obv)

gn

To the baddies...

Spoiler: show

[insert huge joker-themed image joke referencing economics mafia from 2015

I vread this

From G-Man

Spoiler: show

Thoughts through now:

DOLBY
-647: wisdom LINK
-1197: I agree LINK

Time to flesh some of this stuff out. There were some stretches in this game that didn't make much of an impression on me. Also, I got pretty into the last three or four pages and didn't jot many notes down as I neared the finish line. Here's what I have:

DOLBY
There was a logic and consistency in some of his posts that reinforced the two posts I liked enough to put in my notes. Early in games I find myself gravitating to logic that strikes me as being akin to my own wavelength. I like the brevity of many of his posts.

[etc reads list snipped]

Transferring all that to solidify a 6-and-6 format, I arrive at these groupings (alphabetical order, not ranked):

TOWN:
-Dolby
-Dyslexicon
-Marmot
-NotAnAxehole
-Sloonei
-TonyStarkPrime


POE:
-Falcon
-Ilario
-JaggedJimmyJay
-Johanna
-Lime Coke
-SOA

Does anyone specifically townread either Dolby or Lime Coke? Those two players seem to be consensus scumreads, or at least exist in everyone's POE's, except for each others.

Dolby has a vibe read of Lime Coke, and Lime Coke has Dolby just outside his POE.

Some people had some townread. I haven't really seen a reason to scumread them but I hope things will become a bit clearer now that he seems to have rejoined the thread.

One thing that I couldn't help but note about G-Man's list is that, also against consensus, Dolby was placed rather high up. Unless I am misremembering. These are associative pointers, I'm just not sure how to weigh them. I feel like right now Lime's D2 is the shakiest performance we have and they make a good candidate, so I'd rather start clearing the POE from there or falcon.

The placement of Dolby in my group of six townreads list was due to my lists being alphabetical. I believe I said as much when I made them.

Dolby put forth some logical posts. It's a vibey, wavelength kind of soft townread for him. One thing that I do need to go back and do during the night phase is look at Dolby's ISO and see if the logic and wavelength that appealed to me in individual posts is still there when I look at his production and progression from a macro level.

Right now I want to finish up with Falcon's ISO to see if the teammate connection I can see from Lim Coke to Falcon extends back the other way.

Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.

Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.

This is, of course, very convenient an observation to make for a first ISO review, considering Dolby and I seem to be the favored targets at the moment. Don't think that isn't lost on me.

Took a look at Falcon's full ISO just now. Beyond the JJJ tin-foil, which I am sympathetic to up to a point, there's not much meat behind his words or actions. It's coasty, but not as noticeably coasty as Dolby from 10,000 feet. If Dolby is just dipping his toes in the ocean, Falcon's gone in just over the knee. Less responding to others and more original content is needed. He stays in my POE.

Dolby does nothing with G-Man. G-Man treats Dolby as a town read on Day 2 and a mafia read on Day 3. That progression doesn't tell me a lot given that they're the two most viable wagons right this moment, as G-Man makes clear he is aware of in the second-last post there. Shrug.

~~~

Do they fit?

I cannot confidently say they don't fit. They can be teammates. I would perhaps expect a little more on the Dolby side if they are. I cannot make any read of that form with confidence at this point though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Dolby and Johanna fit together as mafia teammates?

From Johanna

Spoiler: show

Marmot not sus and I didn't care about much in his iso

Lolk. Could I interest you in a delicious choice of Sig, or are you eyeing anyone else? I see that you don't have a vote down. I'm not very interested in the Marmot wagon myself, and don't particularly understand it.

Yeah, but I want to see if something else has a scummier taste first

Let's wagon Johanna. It could be fun.

[VOTE: Johanna] aubergine

how about no?

Dizzy - looking back I think that some of the stuff that I'm worried about with JJJ applies here
falcon - don't remember a word they've said rn
G-man - same
ilario - towny, triad 2 posts better than posts near start of game
JJJ - have some level of paranoia towards here. This is most relevant in a world where G-Man and Jo are both town
Johanna - null. I don't think their day two entrance changes anything for me wrt to her either (there may be good JJJ points here). The only thing that looks even remotely bad is her characterization of TSP's behavior.
LC - vibes
Marmot - can be town
NAA - hank_scorpio_fire.gif
SOA - vibes
Sloonei - probs good
TSP - town (obv)

gn

Johanna is incredibly obvious town in meta btw

Illario noticing her towniness is a good look

TSP
NAA
Johanna - having played with Jo in dozens of games, and given that she isn't a fish out of water rn, I'm pretty confident in her confidence
Ilario - can explain more but something just tells me this isn't scum

idk who my next two town would be but they don't have the same level of confidence as the above

Johanna voting me and not saying anything at all about me, especially with my catch up posts, is kinda scummy from her.

Like she acknowledged it but like...at least give some kind of opinion?

Johanna is already pretty far out of scum meta imo.

Also sometimes she does just not interact with her SRs

@Dolby let's just simplify this to one basic question:

What's the difference between Sloonei and I that can allow your views to make sense? I am asking because I don't know, and only you can show me.

Sloonei doesn't look like he's trying to chainsaw tomorrow into me/GMan/Johanna

@Dolby let's just simplify this to one basic question:

What's the difference between Sloonei and I that can allow your views to make sense? I am asking because I don't know, and only you can show me.

Sloonei doesn't look like he's trying to chainsaw tomorrow into me/GMan/Johanna

If I was interested in a "chainsaw" I wouldn't bother talking about this with you right now. If I sound like an ego-maniac, it's because I am trying to make sense of something that I, entering the dialogue, think doesn't make sense from someone I suspect who is also voting for one of my town reads. I also think Johanna is probably town. I just have room in the POE pool for one more.

I recognize that you currently townread Johanna ftr, and have them top spot of the PoE. I don't like the day one discourse surrounding all three of our slots and how it's evolved today.

Can you tell me how LC's early posts felt like TMI?

3-3-4 what the fuck is going on?

Hi Jo I decided you are a paragon of towniness

Also there's no chance that JJJ is going over bc I'm 70% sure that Marmot is moving his vote at some point

The "how about no" beginning looks like TMI at a glance. That can be well-enough corroborated by what follows -- a vague "null" read with only positive content in it and then a cascade of "obvious town" kinds of reads. That progression doesn't look terribly associated to me. I'll see how it goes from the other direction.

From Johanna

Spoiler: show

I would appreciate NAA announcing his votes. :P

I mean I also feel pocket paranoia from ilario, but I don't know that it means anything real.

I would love to see more of Comrade Eternal President Dolby, but I haven't seen anything concerning from him atm. Waiting for more G-Man content, and nobody is being tangibly suspicious to my eyes.

If I should get the tinfoil hat I would say perhaps two people in the second triad

Spoiler: show

Dizzy, SoA, ilario

could be partnered wolves

Spoiler: show

or even Jay/Sloonei???

but I'd rather start looking for someone who is individually scummy, or conversely by confirming enough town,

Spoiler: show

but I don't trust myself there.

I always love me a good 7-way tie. @Dolby can attest to it.

Spoiler: show

but I was Mafia in that game.

Spoiler: show

although I do like ties regardless of alignment

Spoiler: show

but not this kind of tie.

I think I've said lots of things.

If what you want is reads I think SoA and Lime Coke are probably the most dubious consensus town reads, Dolby is a good bean so I want to see him around more, and I don't have anything to judge G-Man by.

TSP and SPF are my lock townreads, then JJJ, you (Sloonei), Dizzy, probably NAA goes here, Ilario, Dolby, Limey/SoA, falcon, I have no read on G-Man... and I completely forgot Marmot existed. Is that normal?

Spoiler: show

It can't be normal

Dolby.

and now I'm taking a break because I've been threadsitting for hours and this is exhausting.

To reiterate some things I've already said and some things I did not make clear but which other people have said:

I believe Jay/Sloonei are always the same alignment here.

I believe that there is a chance that either them or two of the second triad are partnered wolves

Spoiler: show

although most likely not.

Spoiler: show

But still there might be a wolf

Spoiler: show

and I mean SoA.

On a different note, I find it interesting that Lime Coke and G-Man both appeared to catch up almost simultaneously. It's probably just a coincidence

Spoiler: show

but I can't stop thinking about it.

I think that G-Man is finally here and we can actually throw reads on him. I'm interested how, in reference to the Jay/Sloonei partnership, they dissociate them completely. He has formed a list that is far from the consensus and that's something to evaluate

Spoiler: show

though I have no idea in which direction yet.

Lime Coke has had a bizarre couple pages worth of posts, I could vote there but I am extremely averse to uncontested wagons.

I find Jay's solve to be a good PoE to start from but I will not vote for Lime Coke without a competing wagon and I would like to hear more from the other suspects.

One salient thing is how Dolby has posted quite a bit, though not as much today, and has not seemed to have a great impact. I would expect more from him as either alignment.

Finally, on the idea of partnerships, I feel if LC is a wolf his vote on falcon might be an attempt at distancing. I'm not too clear on the progression towards that vote.

Does anyone specifically townread either Dolby or Lime Coke? Those two players seem to be consensus scumreads, or at least exist in everyone's POE's, except for each others.

Dolby has a vibe read of Lime Coke, and Lime Coke has Dolby just outside his POE.

Some people had some townread. I haven't really seen a reason to scumread them but I hope things will become a bit clearer now that he seems to have rejoined the thread.

One thing that I couldn't help but note about G-Man's list is that, also against consensus, Dolby was placed rather high up. Unless I am misremembering. These are associative pointers, I'm just not sure how to weigh them. I feel like right now Lime's D2 is the shakiest performance we have and they make a good candidate, so I'd rather start clearing the POE from there or falcon.

I think as stated yesterday, that JJJ and Sloonei are always the same alignment. Therefore, JJJ town.

Why is TSP alive is my biggest question. I'm not chopping an uncontested claim but still. I briefly voted G-Man after Dizzy's claim but I'm on No Vote as I try to sort out my thoughts.

I think in my first catch up post I already indicated SoA as a most likely wolf in the D1 towncore and D2 did not alleviate those suspicions so I am very happy to go there.

I always want to see more of Dolby, I stil feel like I haven't seen enough from him but I might need to bow to the consensus that he should be chopped.

I am very flip floppy on Falcon. He often feels performative but he also has many posts that ring honest.

I do not know G-Man.

I feel like J's PoE might contain up to three wolves rather than all four, but I really can't say who the fourth would be and who in the PoE would not be a wolf I think there's reasonable doubt on all of them to scum read them but also there is very little certainty.

Finally, I'm off

Spoiler: show

to watch Dune.

Dolby is a good wolf, yeah. I expect better from him as either alignment, I'm a bit confused and it's why I'm so reluctant. He can be pretty active and drive discussion as town and he can put up a very townie performance as a wolf.

He is a solid option, I just... want to see more of him. It feels rather unfair to me.

I think Marmot was in Stardew Hydra and I'm pretty sure that's it with regards to playing with other people still alive and posting. Other than Dolby. I don't want to think he's a woof.

The immediate and developing trend here is that Johanna expects more of Dolby than she has seen (regardless of alignment). His impact has been less than she anticipates. While that's not exactly a "suspicion", it can at least be interpreted as the absence of trust -- and I think it looks like a pretty authentic progression of perspectives. These don't look like views that have been informed by or sculpted by any other conversations happening outside this game thread. I also don't get the impression this progression aligns with Dolby's treatment of her; there's no sense of coordination or agenda.

~~~

Do they fit?

I don't think think they fit together as mafia teammates. If Dolby is mafia, I get the impression he views Johanna as a priority to deal with because they've more mutual familiarity than others have with either of them. So he has stuck the necessary town read on her literal town self to get and stay ingratiated, and she has not responded in kind (in a theoretical world where Dolby is mafia).

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm usually going to be the first to receive blame for failings, even if those failings can be attributed to other people too. This isn't a complaint; I recognize it's the natural tendency. Fine. Mafia know it too.

If you have clout, and you're wrong it's warranted. If you prefer not being at fault, you should deliberately indicate that you're following someone else's read in absence of your own (in which case you'll still probably sway other people because clout).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do Dolby and Son of Anarch fit together as mafia teammates?

From Dolby

Spoiler: show

Oh and by the way, I was kinda thinkin' about this earlier.

Isn't it better for the fruit vendor to claim right away? Basically an IC, yeah? Could have me (the watcher) go on 'em too. I know it's delayed mechanics and all, but still useful as long as I'm not killed.

And for everyone's efforts on this page, I'm gonna slap a small townread on all of you good folk right away. I'm warning ya though, my mind changes easily, but gettin' good vibes from this crowd. I like Jimmy's idea too, about Stayposi being naturally on guard about his early buddy-buddy with her. He seems like a good player, so I think her being naturally curious about all of that is pretty nice as far as ground zero reads go.

Hate this post, I’m always against claiming earlier especially d1

Weird callout. Especially since Anarch already established themselves as pro-mech claim where they claimed watcher. Just takes the call for fruit vendor to claim, which isn't bad, and strips away a past context which makes it look better.

Townreads Dizzy

Don't care about the response to the SPF stuff.

Also son of arch is just doing a very obvious omgus and salty that I disagree with others on his town rwae

would have to read for context

Basically the whole ISO is being defensive and talking about Anarch. I strongly dislike the sus on Anarch from sig, nor do I like that beyond the Dizzy toneread it's the only thing he's put out. There is space to improve since he hasn't backread but does not look good.

I'm gonna ignore any followup until I'm done with Anarch

Watcher claim and encouraging Fruit Vendor to out are kinda towny.

staypositiveffiend
Sloonei

TonyStarkPrime

Son of Anarch

More people please

Being concerned about others read on you. Bad look

Susses LC for piggybacking JJJ. A good look that they both had similar thoughts towards the slot.

Having a catchup post is towny and I'd rather crash than read it

I think that the TSP vote is unnatural coming from scum and moving against a potential pocket.

Don't like the sig vote but apparently a number of people agree with it so won't hold it against him

Scum in 0 posters is a yikes

I think he comes off better between him and sig

I want to sleep

Dizzy - looking back I think that some of the stuff that I'm worried about with JJJ applies here
falcon - don't remember a word they've said rn
G-man - same
ilario - towny, triad 2 posts better than posts near start of game
JJJ - have some level of paranoia towards here. This is most relevant in a world where G-Man and Jo are both town
Johanna - null. I don't think their day two entrance changes anything for me wrt to her either (there may be good JJJ points here). The only thing that looks even remotely bad is her characterization of TSP's behavior.
LC - vibes
Marmot - can be town
NAA - hank_scorpio_fire.gif
SOA - vibes
Sloonei - probs good
TSP - town (obv)

gn

I kinda just like LC on skim

I want them to articulate how they feel about Anarch but that's about it

Dolby turned sig's suspicion of SoA into his own suspicion of sig. Classically this might be called a chainsaw defense, and it's not the best look. Dolby's review of SoA himself is pretty limited and ends in positive feedback "vibes". I don't know why he brought up Anarch in that last post referencing Lime Coke.

From Son of Anarch

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Son of Anarch is an interesting case. I think that, on a holistic level, he looks pretty decent. There are some isolated moments where he might be a bit s t i l t e d though. I think I could even be reading him that way as a byproduct of his penchant for replacing the "ing" with " in' ". Replacin' as it were. I know that's dumb, but I'm just trying to make sense of a dumb concept like "stilted".

Still generally a town read, just with a bit more trepidation than some others have shown.

Hey Jimmy, I appreciate the town read n' all, even if it's comin' with some strings attached. Can ya maybe quote a post or two where ya feel I might be stilted?

(perhaps i should be taking a closer look at my read on Son Of Anarch - i wrote him off as town almost immediately when i have no idea what his range is like or how competent of a wolf he is)

I was having this thought just a moment before I read your post. My current stance is that Son of A Narc is town and perfectly agreeable and a helpful voice in the thread. But he's also new to me, but clearly not new to the game, and a player in that position could very quickly and easily disarm us if they know what buttons to push.

This is not something I would take action on right now, but it is something I would be mindful of if the game begins to take a shape that we do not like.

Hey man, I'm tellin' you all to be scared of me I'm not scum this game, but I can tell you all that I'm not half-bad.

Oh and by the way, I was kinda thinkin' about this earlier.

Isn't it better for the fruit vendor to claim right away? Basically an IC, yeah? Could have me (the watcher) go on 'em too. I know it's delayed mechanics and all, but still useful as long as I'm not killed.

And for everyone's efforts on this page, I'm gonna slap a small townread on all of you good folk right away. I'm warning ya though, my mind changes easily, but gettin' good vibes from this crowd. I like Jimmy's idea too, about Stayposi being naturally on guard about his early buddy-buddy with her. He seems like a good player, so I think her being naturally curious about all of that is pretty nice as far as ground zero reads go.

Hate this post, I’m always against claiming earlier especially d1

Weird callout. Especially since Anarch already established themselves as pro-mech claim where they claimed watcher. Just takes the call for fruit vendor to claim, which isn't bad, and strips away a past context which makes it look better.

Townreads Dizzy

Don't care about the response to the SPF stuff.

Also son of arch is just doing a very obvious omgus and salty that I disagree with others on his town rwae

would have to read for context

Basically the whole ISO is being defensive and talking about Anarch. I strongly dislike the sus on Anarch from sig, nor do I like that beyond the Dizzy toneread it's the only thing he's put out. There is space to improve since he hasn't backread but does not look good.

I appreciate your analysis here, Dolby. Keep sheepin' my reads and I'll take care of ya, although I gotta say, I kept confusin' you for ilario here because of the avatar.

I don't think any of the spoiled bits are that important and to be honest with you all, the quoting on this website is a bit difficult/hard to keep up, so I'm just gonna be talkin' about things without quotes and then if ya need me to quote for whatever reason, just ask me.

@ilario I think Marmot's recent posts are alright. It doesn't really sway me one way or the other. I guess you could say his posts are mostly safe, but not really that scummy t'me. I know that's kinda avoiding givin' a direct answer, but probably wouldn't feel comfortable labeling the dude one way or the other.

And Sloonei man, I honestly don't know what you're tryin' to say there. I get you don't want to enforce a read on Jimmy or make people think you have to follow your read, but I think from my perspective it seems pretty obvious that ya town read the guy. Reason bein' that you haven't really contested the triad idea, keep askin' leading questions that sorta attempt to guide people towards the read, and I don't think you'd give Jimmy this much thread control if ya thought the guy was scum, eh? So I don't get why you're makin' such a big deal about not givin' a read on him.

Dyslexicon had a good point earlier by the way. I know ya guys haven't ever played with me, but I think some of my posts here are pretty hard to fake as scum just in general. I'd listen to the good man here and town read me to make the game easier on you all Hah, but if you don't wanna that's okay too. I just wanna remind you all though that cowboys are good at catchin' criminals.

Also, I accept my place in the triad with you Ilario. I was readin' over your ISO earlier and I'm thinkin' you're just town. Reason being that I think some of your ideas and posts are just too whacky to be scum and your confidence is so fire. I know I said earlier confidence could be scum-indicative, but it's the kinda confidence that's enforced for the sake of pushin' the game along and not the kind of confidence I see a wolf present in order to be town read. Dyslexicon seems like a pretty cool dude as well, high-energy and all. Not that that makes someone town, but I've seen him present a few reads or push in a few directions that I feel like would be pretty ballsy to do, also everyone else seems to town read him and I doubt the whole thread would be wrong on that sorta read since he seems to be a regular on the site.

Here's a reads list for everyone's trouble by the way (it's not ordered between tiers):

Stayposi
Ilario
Jimmy
Dyslexicon
NAA

-------

Dolby
Sloonei
Marmot
Falcon

-------

G-man
Johanna

-------

Lime Coke
TSP

-------

sig

Eh... If I had t'pick 4 people. Now that's really tough, but I'm gonna say right now it'd have to be...

Dizzy
Jimmy
Ilario

and for the fourth... I'm not too certain here. Maybe someone I haven't looked into too much but got good vibes from like Dolby or heck, even Johanna. That might be jumpin' the gun though. I think I'll slot Dolby in there.

I do like your team theory kinda. I'm unsure about Dolby bein' there because I thought the day 1 content was good. Day 2 hasn't been as great, so I'll give ya that.

I don't know if the Johanna, ilario, Dolby, G-Man team works though. That's all three of the 0-posters day 1 in one team, which seems unlikely. Although not impossible I guess due to how thread felt before they started postin'

For the first time in these reviews I find myself actually moved by real suspicion. These are not encouraging posts and I think quite supportive of SoA and Dolby as mafia partners. The initial reads list is whatever. Dolby is in the second-highest tier. That's at least questionable but not necessarily terrible. The other three posts all stand out to me in a bad way though. Dolby gets the token "maybe" placement among SoA's four town reads, and it would form an inverse player salad. The next post about my team theory dissuades the inclusion of Dolby as mafia while simultaneously giving a reason to suspect him. The final post again dissuades a mafia read of Dolby before providing a counter-justification. These are not pretty caveats.

~~~

Do they fit?

Yes, SoA and Dolby fit togther well. If one is mafia I think the other is a high prospect to be with him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm usually going to be the first to receive blame for failings, even if those failings can be attributed to other people too. This isn't a complaint; I recognize it's the natural tendency. Fine. Mafia know it too.

If you have clout, and you're wrong it's warranted. If you prefer not being at fault, you should deliberately indicate that you're following someone else's read in absence of your own (in which case you'll still probably sway other people because clout).

I did that repeatedly with Lime Coke. If you want to judge my play, you should read my posts.

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm usually going to be the first to receive blame for failings, even if those failings can be attributed to other people too. This isn't a complaint; I recognize it's the natural tendency. Fine. Mafia know it too.

If you have clout, and you're wrong it's warranted. If you prefer not being at fault, you should deliberately indicate that you're following someone else's read in absence of your own (in which case you'll still probably sway other people because clout).

I did that repeatedly with Lime Coke. If you want to judge my play, you should read my posts.

I'm not judging, just pointing out facts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not judging, just pointing out facts.

You're pointing out lazy interpretations of content you've barely consumed that you judged well before the game actually started.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway, I don't mind taking blame. I don't care about blame. Let's win.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@ilario just for the log, is Son of Anarch still a town read?