The Syndicate

oh wow that looks like a mean creature.

I was going to post "this ^" referring to the last part of Jane's post where she points out the vote by Alizon doesn't seem on the face of it to have a baddie purpose or benefit. I'm still leaning civ on Alizon but I am still leaning baddie on Malin. I'm undecided on Karin but the more she talks the more comfortable I'm getting with her.

That picture has made my decision easy. I'm picking unicorn.

Merga Bien wrote:Infernal Lost Rabbi info role?

I'm wondering if you are asking about Harry Potter here because I wondered the same thing. The only way I can see believing Agnes enough to vote for Sarah is if I believe Harry is an info role and i don't see anything that makes me think that. Anyway, I have to vote now because I've got something else I've got to do and I'm going to vote Malin.
*votes Malin*

Anna, I am not at all sure whose behind those numbers. I went with the theory that it's the list of players just like they are listed normally and the numbers at that same spot represent that person. That could be totally wrong, it was just a theory expressed by someone. I thought I was voting for Katharina. And yes I would feel good about it being you too.

Merga, she is the 4th one down on the list. I'm voting now.

Thank you Malin.

Merga I was looking at Katharina myself. (Assuming, like you said, this poll is in order.)

Ok, I caught up with the thread and am really concerned about Malin. I don't understand why, when you're being asked to defend a vote, you would just tell people "same reason as yesterday". Just bring the reason out again and if it needs a little more explanation, provide it. Why would you not do that Malin?

Merga I havent looked at the poll yet but if thats whats happening maybe we should have an alternative. Did you have anyone in mind?

I am really sorry fellow witches and hosts for missing the vote today. I got tied up and just flat forgot the vote was today. This is not something I have ever done while playing mafia. Anyway, I need to catch up but its too late tonight and I have appointments in the morning so unfortunately it will be tomorrow afternoon before I can do it. Again, I apologize, it won't happen again.

Alizon Device wrote:

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:Alizon, if it came between Reinberg and Malin, who would you vote for?

This is partly what makes me uneasy about you. You keep directing your questions at me. Your complaint was there's been little discussion, but you keep coming at me.

Between the two of them, I'm comfortable with either. I have no teammates. I suspect both.

However, I'm troubled by this by Reinberg:

"Anyway, if you wish to vote for me that is certainly your prerogative though as you probably know, I will flip civ."

I have no such knowledge.

Alizon, I meant that you struck me as bad and as a baddie you would know who isn't.

Jane Southworth wrote:I forgot that Nutter survived an Nk. That moves her down a few notches in my suspicions and bumps Malin up a few. It seemed that Malin had more reason to vote for Nutter but ended up tagging along on Nutter's vote for Margaret P instead. And when I mentioned that I didn't see the case on Margaret, Malin made a face at me instead of explaining the case to me. Malin seems just as dismissive as she accused Nutter of being.

Alizon, why do you think Karin is good? Is there something specific you can point to that makes you think so? Especially when you say regarding other low posters that there isn't enough to go on, I'm not sure why you're so quick to defend her gameplay. She is the low poster I am most suspicious of.

I had been feeling okay about Margarethe Reinberg so far. Civs have bad voting records just as much as scum do at this stage. Margie R has read as genuine to me.

Reinberg, why do you say you think Alizon knows you will flip civ? Are you suspicious of Alizon?

Jane, Ann Whittle made some statements about Alizon that i thought hit the nail on the head. However, I will tell you that last night I went back over Alizon's posts for the game and I'm not as convinced as I was when I made the statement. I'm very torn. I am trying to work through whether Alizon's level of snark and just plain bad manners (telling people to piss off, calling people lazy, in addition to her previous behavior) is having an undue influence on me. I guess the bottom line is at this point in time, I'm up in the air about her. I'm going to read some other people - for example, I've gotten confused on the 'dotter girls, which one is which and who is saying what. Don't get me wrong, Alizon is not out of the picture for a vote from me, I'm just not as sure as i was when I made that statement last night.

I think this is understandable, my answers are in blue:

Alizon Device wrote:I'm going to try and give my thoughts about everyone since I have some time and I'm tired of studying. Well, studying school stuff anyway. I guess this is still studying.


Margarethe Reinberg~

Voted Krys day 1(civ), voted Bridget day 2 (civ), voted Entjen* day 3, voted Margaret day 4 (civ), voted Mary when Mary was a goner.

This is the worst voting record. But I think there's more!

On day 4. decided to not vote Ent after doing so on day 3. Instead went for Margaret P.

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:I'm also not going to vote for Entjen today. It's one thing to vote for someone you think is a baddie when they are silenced/insanified when there is overwhelming evidence of their baddiness but I don't think thats the case here. I would want Entjen to have an opportunity to respond to her accusers so I won't vote for her while she's insanifed today.

I'm going to take another look at what the case is against Barbara. There is a possibility I could vote for her today but I want to see a good case before I do so.

This may be a vote where I throw a vote to a non/low/OT poster to let them know I'm paying attention to them. There are some people I cant remember hearing one thing from.

Why couldn't Reinberg make her own case against Barbara? Why wait until someone else present a case before she votes?

I already knew people had been saying things about Barbara. I wasn't out to make a case on her. I wanted to see a case from anyone who thought she was bad.

Another generic low voter comment.

My comment was just indicating I might vote low poster. I'm not sure why you see fault with that - I just tend to discuss where I'm looking as I go.

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:I was going to vote Kael Merrie because I couldn't remember one single thing she has said. I looked up her posts and understand why - she hasn't really said anything. She has voted but not given any reasons for her votes. I could see potentially voting Margaret Pearson - I'll hold until I see what the rest of the people who are voting low posters want to do. Please, if you are thinking about a low poster mention who it is and why.

Alizon Device wrote:Low poster proposal, but then decided to vote Margaret, another low poster. If you want to think ill of me for considering low posters, start here.

What are you saying here? Above I said I would consider a low poster. Here I ruled out voting Kael Merrie because there was nothing else besides her low posting that caught my eye. I later voted Margaret.

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:Wow where is everyone? I'm going to go ahead and vote Margaret. She's a low poster, she hasn't posted since Wednesday, and that stuff about Sarah Good was just weird, especially since we can't info dump.

Alizon Device wrote:This is someone I'm considering voting for.

So I see you underlined my reason for voting Margaret. What is your point about my reasons? It also shows you why I voted Margaret instead of Kael - I had more suspicion about voting MargaretAlso, below is my explanation for voting Margaret after the fact.

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:I understand you are just trying to understand Merga. The little owls statement just pinged me more than the others and added to the low poster and hadn't been here in days it added up to my vote. I didn't want to just randomly vote among the low posters so I went with someone who was a low poster and pinged me for another reason. It's early in the game, and that's really all there was to my vote.

Also, somewhere in here you make reference to my late vote for Mary. As I said in the thread:

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:I would like to hear what Agnes has to say before voting but since Mary has chosen not to defend herself and just talk in other languages I just don't know if what Agnes has to say would change my mind today. I'll wait a bit though before voting - there is plenty of time.

Perhaps you missed that statement when you were looking at that issue.

Anyway, if you wish to vote for me that is certainly your prerogative though as you probably know, I will flip civ.

Oh! I thought when you said "i'll comment in a little while" you were talking about Lucious. Sorry, I completely misread that. I look forward to your analysis.

Alizon, I'm not understanding the analysis you have presented. I have a tendency to be dense so I'm not saying you didn't explain it well I just can't quite grasp the point you are making. I thought you were saying we need to look at the first people who voted in the civ lynches but then the list of names and days seems to indicate something else. Could you just provide a little more explanation for me? Thanks.

RIP Agnes, i wish I'd gotten to hear the rest of your thoughts. RIP Jennet, as I think you were good and am sorry to lose you. RIPIYWG Entjen. By this point I really didnt know what to think of you. This is going to take some thought to think through the whole Crabbe-kills-Entjen thing in light of the theory that Entjen used a lynch switch to get Krystyna killed rather than Entjen dying with the most votes. Why would Crabbe kill Entjen if she could have been another Slytherin? Maybe my brain is just confuzzled and this makes sense to everyone else.

I'll go with #1.

Way to go team!! And yes, i think if anyone was a recruiter it was Lucius. So now, can we make any connections?

Well, Agnus I still want to know what you have to say but I've got to go out and am not sure i'll be back in time for the lynch. I continue to have bad feelings about Mary trying to pursue the teachers when there are baddies to find, and I don't like the way she uses inflammatory words to describe them ("super shady indie team"). And then on top of that, she's not defending at all, just writing in different languages, laughing, and reprinting something from GOT. I agree this seems like "i'm giving up" behavior. She really feels bad to me so I'm going to go ahead and vote for her.
*votes Mary Eastey*

I would like to hear what Agnes has to say before voting but since Mary has chosen not to defend herself and just talk in other languages I just don't know if what Agnes has to say would change my mind today. I'll wait a bit though before voting - there is plenty of time.

Mary, here you are one of the top suspicions for the day, and you act like this. What are you doing?

Alizon, there are no mods on right now so I'm asking you please don't talk to people the way you did in your next to last post. We are all friends here even behind these socks and we've all agreed to play these games showing respect for each other.

Alizon, I think what Maret is asking is the last time we lynched a low participator in this game, how did that work out for us? And the answer is, it worked out terribly for us. We lynched Margaret Pearson and she was a civ. I'm not looking at low posters again unless we have narrowed it down much better to someone specific using thread evidence and/or voting patterns. I don't feel like we've got that this lynch. (Maret if this is not what you meant, sorry and please correct me.)

Jennet Bierley wrote:We still have 24+ hours until the day is over. Today is Monday, the vote ends on Tuesday.

I was so focused on the time I missed the date! Thanks Jennet, and Agnes there's definitely time for you to pull the quotes to illustrate your points and obviously that is preferable. Please just disregard what I said.

Agnes Sampson wrote:

Anne Whittle wrote:As far as Agnes goes the way she was written back in is quite different than others. I could see a possible recruit sitch.

Nice try Anne to dismiss me completely as soon as I get back. I have not been recruited I am HARRY POTTER do you really think I would join the Dark Lord? I can't tell you exactly why I'm alive but it's because I have an important role to play. I doubt Ill be alive much longer but I will do some damage to the death eaters while Im here.

I am surprised to see Entjen is still alive. She is squeaking through lynches by the hem of her skirt. Someone is trying to save her that much is certain. I am trying to read the posts of the players who voted me and she still stands out the most to me, Ill try to pull some quotes later I have to keep reading now.

Agnes, i realize you are still trying to catch up but knowing the vote is over in a couple of hours is it possible for you to just tell us specifically why Entjen is standing out to you - even if you don't have time to do quotes? Right now the person who is looking bad to me is Mary but I want to consider any other suspects out there.

Mary Eastey wrote:
How do you know that we wouldn't find anything out? We could also analyze her posts, her interactions to get an idea of who the others are. The Teachers right now are a big question mark, and I feel that lynching one could lead to more information about them. Of course, ole Voldy is a bigger threat, but I certainly don't think that we should ignore the Teachers.

I'm trying to think of an example of something we would find out by lynching an indie. We wouldn't find out their secret power, and we wouldn't find out their win condition, nor would we find out if they have bts or not. I do understand we could analyze the posts and see if we see any links to others though I am not as convinced that by day 4 the indies have all found each other. Mary, it would be helpful to me if you would give an example of what we could hope to find out besides possible links to other teachers. I don't mean you have to make a definitive statement that we WILL find something out specifically. I'm just looking for an example of what you are talking about so I can better understand your point.

I am going to vote Giant Wars.

I understand you are just trying to understand Merga. The little owls statement just pinged me more than the others and added to the low poster and hadn't been here in days it added up to my vote. I didn't want to just randomly vote among the low posters so I went with someone who was a low poster and pinged me for another reason. It's early in the game, and that's really all there was to my vote.

Merga Bien wrote:

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:Just to be clear, this is the reason i voted Margared Pearson:

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:Wow where is everyone? I'm going to go ahead and vote Margaret. She's a low poster, she hasn't posted since Wednesday, and that stuff about Sarah Good was just weird, especially since we can't info dump.

The "stuff about Sarah Good" I was referencing did not include Bridget's comments about the devil because they were not about Sarah Good. I was specifically talking about

Margaret Pearson wrote: <snip> Little owls told me that *Sarah Good* is the wicked among us.

And why do you think that saying that about Sarah Good would have implied that Margaret P was bad?

In a game where people are being seen with the Devil, and Sarah is also taking votes for having the letter "S" in her name, I would not single the owl remark out as an "info dump". I have never played a game where dumps were allowed, and I have seen much more overt remarks pass muster. <snipt>

The comment struck me as odd. Also, remember that she was a low poster and had not been around since Wednesday until right before the vote by which time I had already voted. I think you may have misread me on the info dumping part. The game doesn't allow info dumping so I couldn't understand what she was doing. I was wrong, as any civv without info is likely to be many times in a game. Also, yes she was right about Krystyna.

Just to be clear, this is the reason i voted Margared Pearson:

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:Wow where is everyone? I'm going to go ahead and vote Margaret. She's a low poster, she hasn't posted since Wednesday, and that stuff about Sarah Good was just weird, especially since we can't info dump.

The "stuff about Sarah Good" I was referencing did not include Bridget's comments about the devil because they were not about Sarah Good. I was specifically talking about

Margaret Pearson wrote: <snip> Little owls told me that *Sarah Good* is the wicked among us.

RIP, I'm so sorry Margaret, and this makes me really wonder about the Sarah Good info.

And thanks for the on-time post Lizzy.

Wow where is everyone? I'm going to go ahead and vote Margaret. She's a low poster, she hasn't posted since Wednesday, and that stuff about Sarah Good was just weird, especially since we can't info dump.

I was going to vote Kael Merrie because I couldn't remember one single thing she has said. I looked up her posts and understand why - she hasn't really said anything. She has voted but not given any reasons for her votes. I could see potentially voting Margaret Pearson - I'll hold until I see what the rest of the people who are voting low posters want to do. Please, if you are thinking about a low poster mention who it is and why.

I'm also not going to vote for Entjen today. It's one thing to vote for someone you think is a baddie when they are silenced/insanified when there is overwhelming evidence of their baddiness but I don't think thats the case here. I would want Entjen to have an opportunity to respond to her accusers so I won't vote for her while she's insanifed today.

I'm going to take another look at what the case is against Barbara. There is a possibility I could vote for her today but I want to see a good case before I do so.

This may be a vote where I throw a vote to a non/low/OT poster to let them know I'm paying attention to them. There are some people I cant remember hearing one thing from.

Anna Koldings wrote:

Kael Merrie wrote:Wow 2 civ lynches and what could have been a Harry Potter night Kill night one. we need to get down to business and find some baddies.

I agree, and I will pull my weight Day 4. Substantial weight from too much cauldron cakes.

Also, is anyone else having trouble keeping all of you straight? It's a bit of an amorphous blur.

I'm definitely having trouble. I may have to go back and take notes on every player to get them all straight.

Awww damn. RIP Krystyna, I hate to see you go.

Hosts: thank you so much for the on-time posts you have been doing and great job on this post.

Ok, I guess there really is no good reason to wait. Krystyna, I hope I'm right about you.
*votes Entjen*

Ok, it looks like this is boiling down to a race between Krystyna and Entjen. If that works out to be true after some others have voted, I will cast my vote against Entjen.

Jennet Bierley wrote:I do not believe that Krystyna is the right vote for today, nor do I wish to vote Entjen, though between the two, I think I'd pick Entjen. My pick right now is Barbara, but I'm going to wait, because I don't believe we should lynch Krystyna.

I hate to post someone else's thought and say "me too" but if I posted it in my own words it would sound exactly like this so oh well. Krystyna, I would like to know where you will vote. Actually, I can see how you might decide to save your vote and vote defensively so maybe the question is who would you vote if you didnt have to do that. Answer whichever question applies to you.

I'm having some trouble keeping up with this, I think it's just the strange names and my lack of time today. I will try to do a better job of contributing to discussion tomorrow.

Oh also, someone- Rebecca maybe - quoted something i wrote asking Krystyna for an explanation and said that explanation had been given hours before. If so, I missed it. Also, I think its obvious that I'm not trying to back Krystyna into some corner or make her look bad in anyway. It was in my view a legitimate question.

Anne Redferne wrote:I need to vote tonight, I'm performing a "magic" show tomorrow night so I'm gonna be busy all day.

I think I've decided to trust Krystyn Chenoweth, at least for now.

My vote is going to Entgen, partially because of the stuff Krysteny said about avoiding responsibility but also because of this thing:

"Krystyna I def do not have btsc, and if I did, don't you think my posts would be a little more consistant
because I would have an idea what is going on from my btsc? I am all on my own here, and I really am just busy. "

The whole argument of "if i were a baddie I would act differently because teammates" never pans out properly, if baddies ran around acting like they were obviously baddies then there wouldn't be much of a game would there. mafia do their best to act like they're not in btsc and don't have buddies to help them catch up and like... good mafia teammates make their fellow mafias read up on their own to avoid slip ups and shared perspectives and whatever. I am sleepy, but yes that is where my vote is going.

Krystyn has used some logic that I agree with. I can't get past the point that as we look at the game right now there are 20 indys/civvs and only 4 bad. Given who the indys are I'm hard pressed to see them side with Voldemort, now that I understand that they are heads of houses. So, it seems logical that at least one of the Slytherin students has a win condition that is compatible with the baddies. Otherwise, as I said earlier, the game construction would really favor the civvs. I also asked Krystyn why she assumed Crabbe/Goyle/Pansy could turn bad because I thought she had slipped when she said they were worse than Draco and Lucius. Though I didn't like her response it did make sense that she was thinking about how it played out in the books (I didnt read all the books so I'm assuming what Krystyn said is right).

Jennet Bierley wrote:
Krystyna, I appreciate your high level of participation recently which is something I believe is indicative of a townie, but your ideas are all over the place and don't connect. Almost like you don't care who gets lynched, but if you come up with all sorts of evidence as to why each player is bad, someone will get the votes. That is something I'd expect from a baddie.

I know someone who fits this description (highly participative, ideas all over the place) and in their play this behavior is not indicative of alignment. I don't know if they are who I think but it does give me pause.

So at this point in time I'm not ready to vote Krystyn. I'm thinking about Entjen, but I've got more reading to do on her. There is plenty of time today and something else may come up to convince me someone completely different is bad.

Krystyna Ceynowa wrote:

Märet Jonsdotter wrote: ....you literally said that Crabbe, Goyle, and Pansy-- roles to which we have zero confirmed indication that are recruitable (we have that indication on Draco) are worse than Lucius.

Go read the books and tell me they aren't.

Maybe in the thread you should differentiate what you're getting from the books versus what are you deducing from the thread. Not all of us have read all the books so can't tell where you're getting you're info unless you specify.

I'm checking in occasionally, waiting for Krystyna's response regarding why s/he said Crabbe, Goyle and Pansy were worse than Lucius or Draco. I was hoping s/he would have responded by now.

I'm voting for Thebe who consorted with Zeus and had an ancient Greek City and a Jupiter moon named after her.

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:I voted.

Anne Redferne wrote:

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:

Anne Redferne wrote:Why bridget?

Did you read anything we've talked about?
Bridget claims to know that none of the members of Voldemort's team can survive a lynch. Regardless of what we think of Agnes, I see only one way that Bridget would know that no one on Voldemort's team can survive a lynch.

I have read everything, yes, but thank you for your concern, Märet.

To me it just seems like Bridget is making somewhat logical conjectures based on the available data, but stating them as absolute facts. Odd behavior yeah, but I don't see it as necessarily being a role related thing. I just don't think I'm quite as convinced as you are on the matter.

Yes, but ignoring unknown information indicates that she either knows the unknown information or doesn't care about facts.

I agree and will also vote Bridget.

Thanks Jennet for the explanation.

Jennet Bierley wrote:

Anne Redferne wrote:I'm curious what Barbara and Jennet were referring to. I don't understand why either of them is getting at what they're getting at.

Well, let's just say that there could be multiple things that are causing her to say this. OR, that could just be her playing style. Every single post she's made has been short and sweet, not just here votes. I mean, imagine if her vote was being controlled by someone else. I'm not entirely convinced either, but I see what Barbara's saying, and don't want to just disregard it just yet.

@ Margarethe. You also said you could see an innocent reason for Bridget's actions earlier. What was that reason and why is it no longer valid? Also, what makes you think Barbara or myself has information about Bridget? That is a risky conclusion to come to.

I thought Bridget's vote was being forced but after Jane pointed out that she had done it twice I no longer think it was forced.

As to what makes me think you or Barbara has information see this quote of Jane's which includes a quote from you and a quote from Barbara:

Jane Southworth wrote:

Barbara Kollerin wrote:I've put some thought to it, and I think there are good odds that a Bridget lynch would be futile, but I'd be willing to try, anyway.

Jennet Bierley wrote:I'm still perusing posts to decide who to vote for. I can think of a couple reasons why we should leave Bridget alone for now, but I'm not sure everyone else agrees.

I'm not picking up on what you guys are laying down here. It doesn't help that you both seem noncommittal ("but I'd be willing to [lynch her] anyway" "but I'm not sure everyone else agrees")... I don't know whether or not I agree with you, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

If you feel Bridget isn't a good way to go, who are you considering a vote for?

You specifically said you can think of reasons we should leave Bridget alone. My question is what are those reasons, as long as the reasons don't out her. I don't know where you are getting that I am making a risky conclusion. The conclusion I made was you have reasons for leaving Bridget along for now which is exactly what you said. I'm also asking Barbara why she thinks a lynch would be futile because that's what she said. No risky conclusion there either.

Malin Matsdotter wrote:I am swamped this weekend and don't have time for in depth analysis. I'm also going to have to vote early because I don't know when I will be back online. Having glanced over the thread, I will say that I think it is madness to assume the teachers are a second baddie team. They are almost certainly indies with a secret win condition, in my opinion.

The hosts have already clarified the teachers are indies, not a second baddie team.

Barabara and Jennet, could you just tell us what you are getting at, without outting Bridget? Are there things we haven't discussed that you have noticed about Bridget? I don't want you to out her but if there is anything more you can share without doing so please do.

Bridget Bishop wrote:

Anne Redferne wrote:Did Bridget say the same line about the devil in both of her votes? With no explanation?

Jane pulled the quotes and Bridget did do it twice. I did not notice that until Jane pointed it out. My thoughts on why it happened are no longer valid.

Rebecca Nurse wrote:
<snip>
So is no one going to talk about Bridget seeing Alizon with the devil and voting for her? Care to elaborate, Bridge?

I figure the Students are civvies, Death Eaters are baddies, and Professors are independents.

I can think of an innocent reason Bridget might have done this but I'd rather wait for her reply than give her something to latch onto.

Also, on the role of the teachers, one thing that has me scratching my head is how out of 24 players there could only be 4 baddies (Voldemort & crew). That seems like it would be massively overpowered in favor of the civvs. So I'm wondering if maybe the teachers are indies with some leaning toward being bad and some leaning toward good as indicated by their win conditions.

And, since i didnt read the whole Harry Potter series I am not up to speed with some of the terms people are using. I will google them but i may have to ask for some clarification.

I am interested in dying as quickly as possible, not having it drug out by being chomped on or impaled. I hate fire but if its quick i think I can deal with it so I pick phoenix.
*votes phoenix*

Yikes! I didn't notice yesterday that the poll was early today. I'm not seeing the Agnes vote nor the Entjen vote. My thoughts match what Malin just said on the two and as a result, I'm going to random vote.

*votes Krystyna Ceynowa*

I agree with the tea maker, though I am a coffee woman myself , let's just try and get along. We have an enemy - more than one methinks - to find.